Motor Blew on Turbonetics ST kit in 24HRS!
07-01-2005, 04:29 PM
#21
Stillen, APS, HKS, seem to share the "hard to tune wrong or at all by the user", my PE kit doesn't get tuned at all, so perhaps that is why less boom. The greddy with all the electrical wiring changes seems to have the most room for a misconnect or bad connection in the electrical area. Only speculation on my part from reading in the forums.
07-01-2005, 05:11 PM
#22
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ARG!!! This is getting on my nerves 
Sorry to hear about your engine failured. I just dropped my car off for the shop to install my Turbonectics ST and now I don't know what to do after reading all this stuffs. Should I call the shop to stop and sell the kit? I want to know the rest of the story too.
Sorry to hear about your engine failured. I just dropped my car off for the shop to install my Turbonectics ST and now I don't know what to do after reading all this stuffs. Should I call the shop to stop and sell the kit? I want to know the rest of the story too.
07-01-2005, 05:25 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by gringott
Stillen, APS, HKS, seem to share the "hard to tune wrong or at all by the user", my PE kit doesn't get tuned at all, so perhaps that is why less boom. The greddy with all the electrical wiring changes seems to have the most room for a misconnect or bad connection in the electrical area. Only speculation on my part from reading in the forums.
Back on topic would be nice for prospective Turbonetics owners to know if their is anything they should look for.
07-01-2005, 07:01 PM
#26
I'm hoping that Shervin will come forward with additional details on this catastrophic failure, however in the mean-time, I'm confident in saying that the rest of us needn't worry about this being a problem with the kit. I believe this was a case of simply exceeding the limits of the stock components. I'm really curious to hear input from our experts like Sharif, so I hope that more details come forward. I'd love to provide them, but it's just not my place.
07-01-2005, 09:14 PM
#29
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Boost spike most likely, the 6.1 can push alot of air when unleashed.
I have been experimenting with our shop Z, pushing boost limits, timing, air fuel on this kit. Last week I ran the car @ 14lbs boost which yeilded 420whp/449tqlbs on a stock Z with no problems. Don't do this ap on your Z, this should cause an engine failure eventually. I wanted to see how the stock rods would hold up under ten hard dyno pulls and a fews days of hard street running.
Point being, there's more going on here. We need all the info to determine the end result.
I have been experimenting with our shop Z, pushing boost limits, timing, air fuel on this kit. Last week I ran the car @ 14lbs boost which yeilded 420whp/449tqlbs on a stock Z with no problems. Don't do this ap on your Z, this should cause an engine failure eventually. I wanted to see how the stock rods would hold up under ten hard dyno pulls and a fews days of hard street running.
Point being, there's more going on here. We need all the info to determine the end result.
07-02-2005, 05:30 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by projectsherv
I have future plans but so far these engine mods have got my pockets dry.
Turbonetics Single Turbo kit
CP 8.5:1 pistons
Pauter Rods
ARP Head Studs/Main Bolts
New Headgaskets
Now let me tell you why I decided to build my engine. I got my turbonetics kit installed about 2 months ago, and about 24 hours later the block blew up into pieces. All the work done at Evolution Autosports. There was no mis-shifting and I was completely humilated by this because I swore to everyone I knew that this kit would be reliable on a stock block. Nobody has offered to help out with the funding including Turbonetics who I have called. I now have a new motor and the bottom end rebuilt. As far as engine management go's I am going to see how the car looks on the dyno with stock boost on this setup till I can afford to do engine management and tuning and then I will start to crank up the boost.
bill for engine rebuilt and parts and labor 10k
Ps: Beware nothing is as reliable as you think it is (IE: Turbonetics Turbo Kit)
Turbonetics Single Turbo kit
CP 8.5:1 pistons
Pauter Rods
ARP Head Studs/Main Bolts
New Headgaskets
Now let me tell you why I decided to build my engine. I got my turbonetics kit installed about 2 months ago, and about 24 hours later the block blew up into pieces. All the work done at Evolution Autosports. There was no mis-shifting and I was completely humilated by this because I swore to everyone I knew that this kit would be reliable on a stock block. Nobody has offered to help out with the funding including Turbonetics who I have called. I now have a new motor and the bottom end rebuilt. As far as engine management go's I am going to see how the car looks on the dyno with stock boost on this setup till I can afford to do engine management and tuning and then I will start to crank up the boost.
bill for engine rebuilt and parts and labor 10k
Ps: Beware nothing is as reliable as you think it is (IE: Turbonetics Turbo Kit)
07-02-2005, 06:24 AM
#31
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When are people going to get it.....VQ motor is not reliable for FI in stock form!!!!
Of course there are engines that haven't blown, and there are plenty that have. It all depends on what you detremine to be "reliable". i.e. what is the percentage of failures you are willing to except before you determine that a product is unreliable. Is that number 1%, 5% 10%, 20%? I guarantee that if engines were blowing like these on a factory turbo/SC motor, there would be serious trouble, lawsuits, etc, etc, etc. Why do you suppose that forced induction motors from the factory are so much stronger than their NA counterparts? Do auto manufacturers just enjoy spending more money on R&D and constuction costs?
Remember this......no FI manufacturer will EVER tell you that they recommend you build your motor prior to installing an FI kit, because it would kill their business to do so.
Even properly tuned, I wouldn't push this engine over 320-330 rwhp, and even then, there is some risk to the connecting rods.
Remember this......no FI manufacturer will EVER tell you that they recommend you build your motor prior to installing an FI kit, because it would kill their business to do so.
Even properly tuned, I wouldn't push this engine over 320-330 rwhp, and even then, there is some risk to the connecting rods.
Last edited by Speedracer; 07-02-2005 at 06:28 AM.
07-02-2005, 06:38 AM
#32
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sherv that sucks to hear about everything and I really do feel for the loss of money you have had to endure. That being said I'd also like to know under what conditions this occured. I know you mentioned to me that you had the shop modify the wastegate install on this kit. Was there any sign of this being the source of the issue. IE did the boost signal line melt through or come off? Was there an overboost situation if so? I know you had it dumping to atmosphere (the wastegate). This was tested before at Turbonetics recently and they saw no performance gain but rather more potential that the line might somehow find its way in front of the dump and melt. (We are talking 1000+ degrees F at the exit). Any more details you could provide would be very helpful. Like protocav said I have logged over 7000 miles on my car with this kit and at least 2500-3000 were HARD driven miles. Some of them include the Sport Z test when my car was flogged UNMERCIFUL by three editors from that mag back-to back-to back. Even after that me and protocav have beaten my car harder then I think even Turbonetics did during testing. Not that they didn't. Being that my car was a test car I asked (and they obliged) that they torture my car so hard that it would be impossible for another end user to do as much on theirs. After all the torture my car has had it has held up AMAZINGLY. Several races including Porsches, Vettes, LS1 Cams, M3s, you name it. I've drifted my car, dragged my car, my car even overheated when my tstat died and I had to drive it home. Hell my car was in a full on wreck with the kit bad enough that the front and rear bumper and the entire left side of the car were relaced. I even drove my car for a while with the CAS essentially disconnected completely and it has been ok. I'm not saying that every kit is bulletproof. I think we all know they are not. However this kit has held up extremely well and been far more reliable for me then I ever thought would be the case.
07-02-2005, 06:55 AM
#33
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I think people need to stop blaming kits and whinning over the low strenght of the stock motor, the kit is as reliable as the install and tuning, I am running on 13k miles and 11 months and still going strong, I just think people need to become more educated in what they are doing and what to look for once they have such a kit installed in this case ignorance is not bliss. Make sure wastgate install is right, know what your tunning can handle and monitor boost and AF ratio and know what they mean not just pretty guages, I think most if not all of the failures can be traced to an install problem or operation outside the tuning, ie boost spikes, the kit manufacturers cannot build in a safety for ignorance.
07-02-2005, 08:18 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by westpak
I think people need to stop blaming kits and whinning over the low strenght of the stock motor, the kit is as reliable as the install and tuning, I am running on 13k miles and 11 months and still going strong, I just think people need to become more educated in what they are doing and what to look for once they have such a kit installed in this case ignorance is not bliss. Make sure wastgate install is right, know what your tunning can handle and monitor boost and AF ratio and know what they mean not just pretty guages, I think most if not all of the failures can be traced to an install problem or operation outside the tuning, ie boost spikes, the kit manufacturers cannot build in a safety for ignorance.
Thank you...this is the most logical, well thought out post in the entire thread. Everyone is so quick to blame the motor itself. Especially the guys that blow up at 360whp and below..yet there are plenty of Zs cruising around with well over 400whp with no problems to speak of.
When an automotive community finds the strength limit of their stock motor, it will pretty consistantly give out around that limit. The fact is these Z's are blowing up motors at all kinds of different power level, and I think that frankly there are a higher percentage that blow up on LOWER power levels.
07-02-2005, 11:28 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by westpak
I think people need to stop blaming kits and whinning over the low strenght of the stock motor, the kit is as reliable as the install and tuning, I am running on 13k miles and 11 months and still going strong, I just think people need to become more educated in what they are doing and what to look for once they have such a kit installed in this case ignorance is not bliss. Make sure wastgate install is right, know what your tunning can handle and monitor boost and AF ratio and know what they mean not just pretty guages, I think most if not all of the failures can be traced to an install problem or operation outside the tuning, ie boost spikes, the kit manufacturers cannot build in a safety for ignorance.
Last edited by Speedracer; 07-02-2005 at 11:40 AM.
07-02-2005, 11:36 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by Speedracer
I am not "blaming" the motor per se, but merely pointing out that the percentage of failures on stock components with FI will be higher. There have been connecting rod failures on completely stock motors, but that percentage is extremely low. There have been ring failures and detonation on completely stock motors, but that percentage is exptremely low also. When you boost the stock motor, the percentage of failures will increase, and that is an undeniable fact. What risk one is willing to accept is an individual choice.
I think what Westpak and I are saying is that you can't just call the motor weak.
07-02-2005, 11:45 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by BriGuyMax
Well duh...thank you for pointing out the obvious.
I think what Westpak and I are saying is that you can't just call the motor weak.
I think what Westpak and I are saying is that you can't just call the motor weak.
07-02-2005, 12:24 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by Speedracer
Yes, it is obvious. Exactly my point. So why are people so surprised? They suffer from the " it won't happen to me" phenomenon. And I do agree, the motor isn't "weak".
ok so we agree...The problem is so many people don't understand that you've got to pay to play. I've alway got extra cash on hand because I EXPECT to break parts on my car.
