First of all...the turbonetics kit eliminates the stock cats on the Z so the Turbonetics setup effectively has "test pipes" too. As for the crank pully and flywheel..give me a break.

The fact is the APS kit was not designed to just be a plug and play kit with no tuning, since it is in fact piggyback based. Whereas the Turbonetics kit while decent out of the box will require a re-tune EVERY time you change anything for more power on the car since it's ECU based. One tune on the APS with the piggyback and you can add boost and the unichip will correct for the increased boost level.

You are making an unfair comparison of two FI kits. Plain and simple.

 

Um obviously you should do some more research. First off because it is an ECU based system the ECU can dynamically adjust to more airflow just like the stock one. There are at LEAST two cars I know of running plenum spacers and crank pullies whose car made as much as 20 more HP then before them with no adjustments. In fact the only thing you would have to re-tune for would be cams. Second the APS kit ALSO according to APS requires tuning for each mod. And if you don't have a tuner close by you are up a creek. In this case the guy has every possible mod there is besides cams. If you are telling me you don't think that a flywheel can drastically increase low end horsepower you REALLY need to do some more research. Read mcducks flywheel review as he has F/I also and can show you what it means to have one. The motor spins up MUCH faster so loss down low due to parasitic drag is less and because the motor spins up faster you hit full boost sooner. Its pretty much common sense here.

 

If he lives somewhere were there is not a tuner that should be part of the purchase decision. APS is not the best choice for everyone. (BTW the dyno he used is less than 500 miles from the APS tuner in Knoxville) I just don't see what you are trying to show us with this post. It just seems to be a part of your never ending Turbonetics ad campaign.

Like I said it is a good value for the lower price point but you can't change what it is.

 

And BTW I didn't make the comparison. The owner of this car did.

 

The info I posted is directly what he said. I'm not making this crap up. All this info is directly from his mouth...or keyboard however you want to look at it.

 

I'll give you a point for the fact that APS tuners are not readily accessible throughout most of this country. If not the APS kit, I would go with the Greddy as the price for the Greddy kit is almost the price of the Turbonetics kit and lots of people have been working with emanage. I am not trying to take anything away from the Tnetics kit. If I was going mostly for show, I would defintely like to see that sweet polished hair dryer under the hood. The fact that it can make as much power as it does makes it look even better. I guess I am lucky I live in Houston and have SGP real close to me so when I do go FI, I will be in good hands. I personally think you can't go wrong with most any turbo kit. I really am disappointed with the choices of superchargers though. It would have been nice to have a warranty with over 400rwhp. When Tnetics gets around to making timeslips like APS and Greddy have, people might think differently. Unfortunately, we already have a couple winners out there and Tnetics has its work cut out for them if they want to run with the big dogs.

 

Well I don't think anyone with a Turbonetics kit has put on slicks and run the car. Laww did run a 12.66 @ 114 on 19" wheels and street tires with his Turbonetics kit though.

 

Only up to the point at which the MAF maxes out. Then you're up ***** creek and need a bigger capacity MAF and a re-tune. Plus the Z's ECU has no idea what boost is.

Who ever said anything about plenum spacers? I was talking about crank pullies and flywheels as far as PEAK hp is concerned.

If you had any idea HOW the MAP based unichip works, you'd realize that doesn't need a retune for simple airflow mods. Cams are a different story since they change the whole airflow profile of the motor.

I don't remember saying anything about low end power and flywheels. Don't put words into my mouth. I have a lightened flywheel and I know exactly how effective is.

My point is that you're comparing apples to oranges here. You act like a crank pully and a flywheel will create a dramatic peak hp difference. And you geared this thread toward the not so educated people on this forum that just look at peak hp numbers to advertise the turbonetics kit. My point about the re-tune with the Turbonetics is that you have to re-tune to turn up the boost...not to add simple airflow mods such as exhaust. You can turn up the boost on the APS kit and the unichip MAP based engine management knows how to handle more boost...the stock ECU DOES NOT.

You are the one who needs to do more research and stop swinging from Turbonetic's nuts.

Furthermore...give me a ring when you get a bolt-on turbonetics kit'd Z well into the 11s@ near 120mph with under 10psi. I'll be waiting.

 

multiple APS TT'd Z's have trapped OVER 118mph...that speaks a lot louder than your little dyno comparison here.

 

Well lets see since people HAVE added airflow mods to the Turbonetics kit and the reflash adjsuted your argument there is pointless. You said that you had to reflash for EVERY mod you add which is utterly false. So you are telling me the Unichip is equivalent to the HKS Fcon? You are saying the Unichip will sense the increased boost and dynamically adjust timing and fuel corrections to the ECU? Cause thats not what everyone else with a Unichip appears to be saying. Sure the unichip can adjust boost using wastegate control but from what I have seen done on APS cars here in Cali the timing and fuel has to be tweaked when you bump the boost. The Unichip is not going to just say "Oh look theres more boost...let me add some more fuel and pull some more timing" That is done via full tuning not dynamically. If it is then why would ANYONE spend the money on a standalone? Why ar you up ***** creak when the MAF maxes exactly. Do you think the MAF is not maxing out on the APS setup? It is. Then the Unichip does EXACTLY what the reflash does and switches to a speed density map. And FYI the Turbonetics kit CAN be turned up in relation to boost. Up to 9.5 PSI before anything else needs to be done. Since you obvioulsy don't know that, here is a dyno chart of my car at 9 PSI with a stock exhaust and nothing done to the reflash: http://members.***.net/w.suarez/350dyno11-15-04.pdf

Furthermore the trap speed is pretty subjective considering that those cars were (1) not running 8 PSI, (2) had a buch of extra mods (3) were not run in even CLOSE to the same conditions, track, etc. If you are going to compare trap speed and 1/4 mile times you may want to have it done at the same track and preferably the same driver.

 

Why does everything have to be so dramatic with you?? I never said that the unichip is anywhere near as good as a standalone. It will adjust up to a certain point. The fact is you just want to bag on the APS kit and how it can't be tuned for some guy that's 1500miles from the closest unichip tuner so everybody should buy a turbonetics kit.

I really don't think you get what I'm saying here. THE ECU IN THE Z HAS NO IDEA WHAT BOOST IS. So in the case of the turbonetics re-flash it's a hack job on the ecu that just happens to work up to 9 pounds. Doesn't mean it's the RIGHT way to do it. The Unichip DOES know what boost is via the map sensor.

I will re-iterate...let me know when a Turbonetics car runs 118mph+ traps with UNDER 10psi.

 

You ready for the whole truth? The whole Turbonetics kit is a hack job. You use stock manifolds and long a$$ feed pipes that go to the outdated 60-1 Turbocharger that's in a horrible location in the engine bay as far as heat is concerned. Futhermore, Turbonetics sells re-built turbos as new turbos, so you don't even know what you're really getting.

 

I've been reading this forum (and some other Z forums) a lot and after all I've read I have to say... MIAPLAYA, you're a loser...

you were bashing Peter and/or George for pushing APS and you do the same thing for T'netics, even though their kit is nowhere near APS

this is my first post, BTW, since I couldn't take all that crap anymore

 

Then he shouldn't have bought the kit!! Why should we feel bad for a guy who didn't make a smart buying decision?? He knew to get the most out of the APS TT it should be tuned by a Unichip dealer so why complain now?

 

Hmm well lets see the APS ST kit ALSO uses the stock manifolds which just happen to be SS 409 Double wall steel so what is your point exactly? That they don't work? I guess that TWO companies now that know they do. And FYI ANY ST kit is going to have long feed pipes on a V6 config motor. why does it even matter if the ECU knows there is boost? The reflash is designed so that it doesn't NEED to know there is boost. The ECU doesn't know anymore just becuase you use the Unichip. Oh and BTW the reflash is good for MUCH more then 9 PSI. Speed Dreams has a Turbonetics kit car with a custom flash running 14 PSI. The 60-1 in this kit is not what I would consider "old" since the compressor wheel in the Z was designed FOR this kit. How is that old? That car has been out for what 2-3 years. Sure the 60-1 compressor HOUSING is an older design but so is the Gt35, GT25, T3, T4, T55, T66, T72, T87 and about a THOUSAND other turbo configs. There haven't been too many additions to compressor housings in the last 5 years. Although by designing a compressor wheel around a given application you come up with NEW compressor map and wheel based specifically on the application you are designing it for. That just happends to be EXACTLY what was done. Do you think GT25 turbos are brand new? So the turbo location is in a bad position huh? Why is it that 99.9% of FWD cars have the turbo in THE SAME AREA? If heat is such a concern with the turbo in the engine bay how does every car with a turbo in the engine bay get away with it exacty?

 

Wow that was REAL constructive. Glad you are smart enough to add a reply worth reading...

 

I don't remember saying anything about the APS ST turbo kit, but that kit has a much better turbo location than the hack Turbonetics.

Why do FWD cars put them there?? Because they have nowhere else to put them and they have plenty of issues melting hoses and wires. Besides...I never said that it wouldn't "work"..just that it's nowhere near ideal.

Turbo wheel was "designed" for the Z.....HAHAHAHAHAHA you really do eat up all their BS. That's hilarious.

 

Hmmm well since I have seen the compressor map on the Z kits compressor wheel and it looks quite a bit different then the 60-1 standard map on their webpage I guess that yeah I do eat up what they say when I can PHYSICALLY see the difference....How is that any less believable then when APS says they use "custom" compressor wheels and maps with their Garrett turbos?

 

Just can it man...you're getting all bent out of shape for nothing. You don't need to sit here and defend your Turbo kit. In the end we're all here for the same reason. I just don't think poeple appreciate all the APS hating and Turbonetics promoting that you do. I was just giving you a little dose of your own medicine.

 

Well there has been plenty of both on both sides of the fence....