APS TT kit vs Turbonetics kit dyno overlayed
New Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 402
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From: Ottawa, Ontario
hey - why don't you guys come to Canada - it's 20 deg celcius already... none of you FI guys will worry about hot engines =)
Let's just drop the drama... you guys are as bad as ditzy blondes in H.S. fighting over who's gonna be the first to suck some jock off or even worse... DRAG QUEENS =S
People have their choices for their own reasons... i.e. price, how far they want to take it... etc etc etc.
It's like flamming a dude who bought a Civic DX b/c all he wanted was a Point A -> B car spiced up with some rims, intake/exhaust for not getting an SIR which has more potential.
Different things satisfy different people... Hence why some of us have G35s and some of us have Zs (of many different trim levels). Yeah, an APS TT is sweet - given you have unlimited funds, it's very nice to have... BUT some people are just happy with having a simple ST kit which costs $3000 less and $1000 less to install / comes with a simple ECU reflash... 2 days later you got your self reliable boost. SOME PEOPLE just couldn't care less about making 550 whp. All they're looking for is that "turbo feel" and an extra 100 ponies...
MIAPLAYA is a proud owner of a Turbonetics ST. Brian (i believe) is a proud owner of an APS TT. Both enjoy their vehicles =) ... end of story.
Let's just drop the drama... you guys are as bad as ditzy blondes in H.S. fighting over who's gonna be the first to suck some jock off or even worse... DRAG QUEENS =S
People have their choices for their own reasons... i.e. price, how far they want to take it... etc etc etc.
It's like flamming a dude who bought a Civic DX b/c all he wanted was a Point A -> B car spiced up with some rims, intake/exhaust for not getting an SIR which has more potential.
Different things satisfy different people... Hence why some of us have G35s and some of us have Zs (of many different trim levels). Yeah, an APS TT is sweet - given you have unlimited funds, it's very nice to have... BUT some people are just happy with having a simple ST kit which costs $3000 less and $1000 less to install / comes with a simple ECU reflash... 2 days later you got your self reliable boost. SOME PEOPLE just couldn't care less about making 550 whp. All they're looking for is that "turbo feel" and an extra 100 ponies...
MIAPLAYA is a proud owner of a Turbonetics ST. Brian (i believe) is a proud owner of an APS TT. Both enjoy their vehicles =) ... end of story.
New Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 402
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From: Ottawa, Ontario
PS:
Same goes for many other parts...
To some, having a set of VOLK rims means something while to some a nice looking rim that's affordable leaves a happy, satisfied proud heart.
I got AXIS HIROs, which are not top notch rims - but they're affordable and nice...
sure they're not high performance wheels like VOLKs, HREs, RacingHarts, etc.., but they make me happy =), I don't go making fun of people with those expensive rims saying they could've had nice looking rims for $2000 less., nor do they look down on me because I got cheaper rims that look like they're performance rims.
How about seats, some people flamed me for getting Corbeau's instead of Sparcos or Cobras... Do I want Cobra Misanos? HELL YEAH!! Are they worth to me what they're MSRP suggests? NO. Do Corbeau's match my needs and willingness to pay? Yes.
I hope I'm not going on too much of a stretch... but what I'm really trying to say is..
although an APS TT is great and wonderful and many people wish they had it - it's price tag doesn't match everybody's demand. Fortunately, however, companies like Turbonetics recognized this "void" in the market and came out with a kit for those. There really isn't a point of pointing out it's flaws because it is indeed $3000 cheaper than the APS TT and expecting it to be the same for such price gap is just stupid.
BUT, putting it down and disrespecting it as an APS TT owner is definaetly snobish in my eyes. It's like having a 350z Track owner going to a 350z Base owner and saying: "your 350z sucks, it doesnt have a 6cd changer, no navigation, brembos, you don't even have lightweight rims let alone 18"s...damn you suck - I'd end my self if I were you!.........ps: those Xenons that YOU DONT HAVE, make the car look 100x better"
Same goes for many other parts...
To some, having a set of VOLK rims means something while to some a nice looking rim that's affordable leaves a happy, satisfied proud heart.
I got AXIS HIROs, which are not top notch rims - but they're affordable and nice...
sure they're not high performance wheels like VOLKs, HREs, RacingHarts, etc.., but they make me happy =), I don't go making fun of people with those expensive rims saying they could've had nice looking rims for $2000 less., nor do they look down on me because I got cheaper rims that look like they're performance rims.
How about seats, some people flamed me for getting Corbeau's instead of Sparcos or Cobras... Do I want Cobra Misanos? HELL YEAH!! Are they worth to me what they're MSRP suggests? NO. Do Corbeau's match my needs and willingness to pay? Yes.
I hope I'm not going on too much of a stretch... but what I'm really trying to say is..
although an APS TT is great and wonderful and many people wish they had it - it's price tag doesn't match everybody's demand. Fortunately, however, companies like Turbonetics recognized this "void" in the market and came out with a kit for those. There really isn't a point of pointing out it's flaws because it is indeed $3000 cheaper than the APS TT and expecting it to be the same for such price gap is just stupid.
BUT, putting it down and disrespecting it as an APS TT owner is definaetly snobish in my eyes. It's like having a 350z Track owner going to a 350z Base owner and saying: "your 350z sucks, it doesnt have a 6cd changer, no navigation, brembos, you don't even have lightweight rims let alone 18"s...damn you suck - I'd end my self if I were you!.........ps: those Xenons that YOU DONT HAVE, make the car look 100x better"
Last edited by VeilsideZ33; Aug 13, 2005 at 02:20 PM.
New Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 402
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From: Ottawa, Ontario
okay - I'm definaetly worked up LOL
here's another way to look at MIAPLAYA's original post!
"if you're planning on getting an APS TT, and not tuning it - you might as well get the Turbonetics ST"
-or-
"an untuned APS TT is as inferior as a Turbonetics ST" (snobby APS TT owner)
-or-
"hey guys, just a heads up for all potential APS TT buyers - a tune is the key to maximizing APS' gains"
-or-
"Tnetics + APS Dyno Overlay; here are the facts - add your own interpertation" (which I believe was his original intentions before he got flammed for being a Turbonetics Preacher)
here's another way to look at MIAPLAYA's original post!
"if you're planning on getting an APS TT, and not tuning it - you might as well get the Turbonetics ST"
-or-
"an untuned APS TT is as inferior as a Turbonetics ST" (snobby APS TT owner)
-or-
"hey guys, just a heads up for all potential APS TT buyers - a tune is the key to maximizing APS' gains"
-or-
"Tnetics + APS Dyno Overlay; here are the facts - add your own interpertation" (which I believe was his original intentions before he got flammed for being a Turbonetics Preacher)
Originally Posted by VeilsideZ33
okay - I'm definaetly worked up LOL
here's another way to look at MIAPLAYA's original post!
"if you're planning on getting an APS TT, and not tuning it - you might as well get the Turbonetics ST"
-or-
"an untuned APS TT is as inferior as a Turbonetics ST" (snobby APS TT owner)
-or-
"hey guys, just a heads up for all potential APS TT buyers - a tune is the key to maximizing APS' gains"
-or-
"Tnetics + APS Dyno Overlay; here are the facts - add your own interpertation" (which I believe was his original intentions before he got flammed for being a Turbonetics Preacher)
here's another way to look at MIAPLAYA's original post!
"if you're planning on getting an APS TT, and not tuning it - you might as well get the Turbonetics ST"
-or-
"an untuned APS TT is as inferior as a Turbonetics ST" (snobby APS TT owner)
-or-
"hey guys, just a heads up for all potential APS TT buyers - a tune is the key to maximizing APS' gains"
-or-
"Tnetics + APS Dyno Overlay; here are the facts - add your own interpertation" (which I believe was his original intentions before he got flammed for being a Turbonetics Preacher)
You hit the nail on the head....
Originally Posted by 35ounces
Sorry, nothing personal but that post was ignorant.
Llare as far as being a homer and doing Mia's dirty work that is pretty far off base. I really like the APS TT kit - got that? Want me to say it again?
Being called a homer by you is pretty funny though after all of your APS cool-aid posts over the last month or so. If you actually read what I wrote then you would see that I said they are different beasts and the info should be taken for what its worth. But calling the TN a complete hack was way off base. IMO it is a well designed kit and a heck of a value as are the APS kits.
I really don't understand why people can't understand that all of these kits have a place. What is right for one person may not be right for the next but live and let live. The more information posted the better for everyone. That's what its all about.
I suppose these heated debates will go on forever. Now you know where I stand.
Peace.
-David
Llare as far as being a homer and doing Mia's dirty work that is pretty far off base. I really like the APS TT kit - got that? Want me to say it again?
Being called a homer by you is pretty funny though after all of your APS cool-aid posts over the last month or so. If you actually read what I wrote then you would see that I said they are different beasts and the info should be taken for what its worth. But calling the TN a complete hack was way off base. IMO it is a well designed kit and a heck of a value as are the APS kits.
I really don't understand why people can't understand that all of these kits have a place. What is right for one person may not be right for the next but live and let live. The more information posted the better for everyone. That's what its all about.
I suppose these heated debates will go on forever. Now you know where I stand.
Peace.
-David
Just some food for thought... Again my apologies
Also I never said the TN was a complete hack
... For the record I like the TN and if MIA looks back I asked him some questions about the kit way before I went with APS. Dan
Last edited by Llare; Aug 13, 2005 at 03:09 PM.
Just for the record Llare I normally would not use strong language like that but the post that I called ignorant was the one that said the TNetics was a complete hack. I am not sure he really meant it although he did say it was all true. Never said it was you post though and I did clarify that it was the post that was ignorant not necessarily the poster.
Here is the post verbatim.
Anyhow, who cares its just BS.
Here is the post verbatim.
Originally Posted by BriGuyMax
You ready for the whole truth? The whole Turbonetics kit is a hack job. You use stock manifolds and long a$$ feed pipes that go to the outdated 60-1 Turbocharger that's in a horrible location in the engine bay as far as heat is concerned. Futhermore, Turbonetics sells re-built turbos as new turbos, so you don't even know what you're really getting.
You ready for the whole truth? The whole Turbonetics kit is a hack job. You use stock manifolds and long a$$ feed pipes that go to the outdated 60-1 Turbocharger that's in a horrible location in the engine bay as far as heat is concerned. Futhermore, Turbonetics sells re-built turbos as new turbos, so you don't even know what you're really getting.
Last edited by 35ounces; Aug 13, 2005 at 03:56 PM.
Wow am I dizzy! Well kinda off topic, but I am off to Cprace in NC to have my POS Greddy TT tuned. I have a built motor (rods, pistons, cams, and, headwork). I also have every little extra you will want or need. It is 12 hour drive and then I fly off on a bussiness trip. The car will be picked up next Friday and I will post my dyno results.
Just tought I would lighten up the air in here. SEE YA!
Just tought I would lighten up the air in here. SEE YA!
For what it's worth (perspective from another Tnetics S/T owner), I bought this kit because
a) it is capable of taking my stock engine near the limits of its' performance,
b) it has a show factor that no other kit on the market can offer,
c) it doesn't require tuning to make it good for 370-380 WHP
d) I have no intention of seeking power levels requiring internal engine work,
e) it was by far the most cost effective kit on the market to achieve the OOTB performance gain that I wanted.
How does that relate to the original post? Well, for me, it confirms that given my budget and my goals for the car, the turbonetics kit was the right choice for me. Spending 10K on an APS TT and install (or more) would have gotten me here as well, but I'd be facing the "You're gonna have to tune it to make it run right" fact, and while that's a reasonable burden to take on, I just didn't want to have to deal with it. I fully agree that with proper tuning, the APS kit is capable of rod-snapping power, you just have to want it and be prepared for the process to acheive it.
I've driven an APS TT'd car, and I can say without a doubt that the kit has less lag than mine, but my Tnetics kit gives me all of the driving pleasure I'm looking for at a fraction of the cost.
As an owner, I can say without a doubt that the Tnetics kit is not by any stretch a "hack job". The kit is beautiful, and while people may not like the location of the turbo, I've not seen anyone post yet that it's causing any problems, so what's the real drawback? The Walbro pump is pretty much a staple of the F/I community, the injectors are good, the piping is beautifully welded, the intercooler is top-notch (It's a spearco, also a turbonetics product). You may not like the length of the plumbing, which you're certainly entitled to do, but the car still has great low-mid range grunt.
Again, not trying to fan the flames, just posting a few thoughts about the original topic of this thread, which I believe was "here is some data about two different kits for your observation". While it may not be a very scientific one, it still has meaning for some of us. Thanks MIA.
a) it is capable of taking my stock engine near the limits of its' performance,
b) it has a show factor that no other kit on the market can offer,
c) it doesn't require tuning to make it good for 370-380 WHP
d) I have no intention of seeking power levels requiring internal engine work,
e) it was by far the most cost effective kit on the market to achieve the OOTB performance gain that I wanted.
How does that relate to the original post? Well, for me, it confirms that given my budget and my goals for the car, the turbonetics kit was the right choice for me. Spending 10K on an APS TT and install (or more) would have gotten me here as well, but I'd be facing the "You're gonna have to tune it to make it run right" fact, and while that's a reasonable burden to take on, I just didn't want to have to deal with it. I fully agree that with proper tuning, the APS kit is capable of rod-snapping power, you just have to want it and be prepared for the process to acheive it.
I've driven an APS TT'd car, and I can say without a doubt that the kit has less lag than mine, but my Tnetics kit gives me all of the driving pleasure I'm looking for at a fraction of the cost.
As an owner, I can say without a doubt that the Tnetics kit is not by any stretch a "hack job". The kit is beautiful, and while people may not like the location of the turbo, I've not seen anyone post yet that it's causing any problems, so what's the real drawback? The Walbro pump is pretty much a staple of the F/I community, the injectors are good, the piping is beautifully welded, the intercooler is top-notch (It's a spearco, also a turbonetics product). You may not like the length of the plumbing, which you're certainly entitled to do, but the car still has great low-mid range grunt.
Again, not trying to fan the flames, just posting a few thoughts about the original topic of this thread, which I believe was "here is some data about two different kits for your observation". While it may not be a very scientific one, it still has meaning for some of us. Thanks MIA.
Originally Posted by LSs1Power
Can the Turbonetics ST be fitted with a T67 Turbo? I really like the midrange of the single turbo. I can see it on my future M35.
you have to ignor a person that lives in Dirt Texas because we all know there are only 2 things that come from Texas...
Plus the fact that Llare is now one of Peters decipals even after bashing him in the past.. i'll bet your looking forward to a great drive across america for something they could have made a little better out of the box...
brooke
Plus the fact that Llare is now one of Peters decipals even after bashing him in the past.. i'll bet your looking forward to a great drive across america for something they could have made a little better out of the box...
brooke
Originally Posted by kcobean
For what it's worth (perspective from another Tnetics S/T owner), I bought this kit because
a) it is capable of taking my stock engine near the limits of its' performance,
b) it has a show factor that no other kit on the market can offer,
c) it doesn't require tuning to make it good for 370-380 WHP
d) I have no intention of seeking power levels requiring internal engine work,
e) it was by far the most cost effective kit on the market to achieve the OOTB performance gain that I wanted.
How does that relate to the original post? Well, for me, it confirms that given my budget and my goals for the car, the turbonetics kit was the right choice for me. Spending 10K on an APS TT and install (or more) would have gotten me here as well, but I'd be facing the "You're gonna have to tune it to make it run right" fact, and while that's a reasonable burden to take on, I just didn't want to have to deal with it. I fully agree that with proper tuning, the APS kit is capable of rod-snapping power, you just have to want it and be prepared for the process to acheive it.
I've driven an APS TT'd car, and I can say without a doubt that the kit has less lag than mine, but my Tnetics kit gives me all of the driving pleasure I'm looking for at a fraction of the cost.
As an owner, I can say without a doubt that the Tnetics kit is not by any stretch a "hack job". The kit is beautiful, and while people may not like the location of the turbo, I've not seen anyone post yet that it's causing any problems, so what's the real drawback? The Walbro pump is pretty much a staple of the F/I community, the injectors are good, the piping is beautifully welded, the intercooler is top-notch (It's a spearco, also a turbonetics product). You may not like the length of the plumbing, which you're certainly entitled to do, but the car still has great low-mid range grunt.
Again, not trying to fan the flames, just posting a few thoughts about the original topic of this thread, which I believe was "here is some data about two different kits for your observation". While it may not be a very scientific one, it still has meaning for some of us. Thanks MIA.
a) it is capable of taking my stock engine near the limits of its' performance,
b) it has a show factor that no other kit on the market can offer,
c) it doesn't require tuning to make it good for 370-380 WHP
d) I have no intention of seeking power levels requiring internal engine work,
e) it was by far the most cost effective kit on the market to achieve the OOTB performance gain that I wanted.
How does that relate to the original post? Well, for me, it confirms that given my budget and my goals for the car, the turbonetics kit was the right choice for me. Spending 10K on an APS TT and install (or more) would have gotten me here as well, but I'd be facing the "You're gonna have to tune it to make it run right" fact, and while that's a reasonable burden to take on, I just didn't want to have to deal with it. I fully agree that with proper tuning, the APS kit is capable of rod-snapping power, you just have to want it and be prepared for the process to acheive it.
I've driven an APS TT'd car, and I can say without a doubt that the kit has less lag than mine, but my Tnetics kit gives me all of the driving pleasure I'm looking for at a fraction of the cost.
As an owner, I can say without a doubt that the Tnetics kit is not by any stretch a "hack job". The kit is beautiful, and while people may not like the location of the turbo, I've not seen anyone post yet that it's causing any problems, so what's the real drawback? The Walbro pump is pretty much a staple of the F/I community, the injectors are good, the piping is beautifully welded, the intercooler is top-notch (It's a spearco, also a turbonetics product). You may not like the length of the plumbing, which you're certainly entitled to do, but the car still has great low-mid range grunt.
Again, not trying to fan the flames, just posting a few thoughts about the original topic of this thread, which I believe was "here is some data about two different kits for your observation". While it may not be a very scientific one, it still has meaning for some of us. Thanks MIA.
Right on the dot! That's also why I bought the kit. It very cost effective. I got the T-netics kit for $3,800 + $500 installation fee + $300 for gauges + 50 for 3 dyno pulls to make sure the A/F is ok. It fits my budget really good and got the power I wanted. If I have money probably will go with the APS TT kit + built internal
but I'm poor 
. I just love this turbo kit and doesn't care much about what other people think of it.
Originally Posted by brooke
you have to ignor a person that lives in Dirt Texas because we all know there are only 2 things that come from Texas...
Plus the fact that Llare is now one of Peters decipals even after bashing him in the past.. i'll bet your looking forward to a great drive across america for something they could have made a little better out of the box...
brooke
Plus the fact that Llare is now one of Peters decipals even after bashing him in the past.. i'll bet your looking forward to a great drive across america for something they could have made a little better out of the box...
brooke
Hey Yammy...weren't you banned from this website?
Registered User
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 109
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From: Albuquerque
I think it's interesting... Actually James of RWTD is a freind of mine, I know him through the Lightning scene, it'll be interesting to ask him some things about this.
This information is good for us. It helps to solidify the out of the box value Turbonetics has to offer.
This information is good for us. It helps to solidify the out of the box value Turbonetics has to offer.
Originally Posted by 35ounces
Yeah good deal. Did you get it from that guy Jace in Michigan?
! I drove up there and picked it up! Also got some extra goodies from him. Very cool guy.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne, Australia
Hi guys,
Well i've just registered and spent a good 20 minutes reading and soaking in the many replies, oppinions and facts... and SOME has been great constructive feedback, but there is alot of stray posts.
For starters i don't really think the comparison to start with is entirely 'fair'? You are comparing a otherwise stock car fitted with a 'bolt-on' pre-tuned single turbo kit, as apposed to a vehicle fitted with a 'bolt-on' pre-tuned twin turbo kit ALONGSIDE several other modifications, that will dramatically affect the tune.
So with that in mind how can one expect that a tune based on a system with no other mod's is going to be 100% effective when there is other modifications affecting airflow that the tune is not catering for? One thing that is a positive to this that you are not giving credit for is that the car is running rich, a far cry better than leaning and causing drastic damage to an otherwise perfect car before hand. Yes no one likes to change plugs and waste fuel, but i know i'd rather be running rich and safe. SO.. with this in mind and remembering you know yourself that the vehicle specifications are not what the tune is designed for, i don't see why their is so much drama as seen in previous posts by some. You are dealing with modifying on a high scale... twin turbo-ing any car is a big step, as you should all know in the performance modification scene... by purchasing such a kit at such an expense, i don't see the drama with the small cost of a tune after wards to make sure 'YOU' are happy with the outcome, and that you are correctly evaluating the outcome. More to the point, anyone who carries out such modifications would be eager to see the figures on a dyno, then the tune should be checked anyway. This is vital not only to adjust the tune, but to check that the car is running 'safely', and isn't something that should be a choice, it should be mandatory for any decent modification to ANY car. It is stupid to sit back and complain when you havn't really assessed the situation in the proper manner. IF, and i say IF.. you are still dissapointed after a tune, then the feedback will be accpeted differently, and will have far more merrit to it, but i know for a fact you will be far from dissapointed with the results after tune.
But i do think this has been blown way out of proportion, give the underlying scenario that you have expected the impossible.
I will continue to imput on the forum, and please if you wish to contact me for any information i am happy to help out in any way possible.
- James.
Well i've just registered and spent a good 20 minutes reading and soaking in the many replies, oppinions and facts... and SOME has been great constructive feedback, but there is alot of stray posts.
For starters i don't really think the comparison to start with is entirely 'fair'? You are comparing a otherwise stock car fitted with a 'bolt-on' pre-tuned single turbo kit, as apposed to a vehicle fitted with a 'bolt-on' pre-tuned twin turbo kit ALONGSIDE several other modifications, that will dramatically affect the tune.
So with that in mind how can one expect that a tune based on a system with no other mod's is going to be 100% effective when there is other modifications affecting airflow that the tune is not catering for? One thing that is a positive to this that you are not giving credit for is that the car is running rich, a far cry better than leaning and causing drastic damage to an otherwise perfect car before hand. Yes no one likes to change plugs and waste fuel, but i know i'd rather be running rich and safe. SO.. with this in mind and remembering you know yourself that the vehicle specifications are not what the tune is designed for, i don't see why their is so much drama as seen in previous posts by some. You are dealing with modifying on a high scale... twin turbo-ing any car is a big step, as you should all know in the performance modification scene... by purchasing such a kit at such an expense, i don't see the drama with the small cost of a tune after wards to make sure 'YOU' are happy with the outcome, and that you are correctly evaluating the outcome. More to the point, anyone who carries out such modifications would be eager to see the figures on a dyno, then the tune should be checked anyway. This is vital not only to adjust the tune, but to check that the car is running 'safely', and isn't something that should be a choice, it should be mandatory for any decent modification to ANY car. It is stupid to sit back and complain when you havn't really assessed the situation in the proper manner. IF, and i say IF.. you are still dissapointed after a tune, then the feedback will be accpeted differently, and will have far more merrit to it, but i know for a fact you will be far from dissapointed with the results after tune.
But i do think this has been blown way out of proportion, give the underlying scenario that you have expected the impossible.
I will continue to imput on the forum, and please if you wish to contact me for any information i am happy to help out in any way possible.
- James.
Well if you are selling this as a "bolt on" turbo kit then that has the conotation(sp) of needing little or no tune. I agree that people should bite the bullet and get it dyno tuned. I think the other point you may be missing is that not many tuners are certified to tune your systems(please don't say it is hard to find tuners that you will approve because everyone knows you want as many as you can get). I would have gotten your kit if their was someone within a couple hours of me to tune it. The non-open source mode to your tuning practices keeps it safe but also limits your exposure to the higher(or dare I say nuttier) end of the spectrum. Congrats on a great product.
MIA there are so many possibilities with that kit. if you talk to a couple Supra people they will tell you alot of different combos can be made using the same exhaust wheel and foot. Heck some of the fastest Buick GN guys are running a variation off of the 60-1 and the 2.5L conquest motor as well.
MIA there are so many possibilities with that kit. if you talk to a couple Supra people they will tell you alot of different combos can be made using the same exhaust wheel and foot. Heck some of the fastest Buick GN guys are running a variation off of the 60-1 and the 2.5L conquest motor as well.
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
Turbonetics is expirementing with using a T66 compressor wheel in a 62-1 housing on this kit....should have more info by the end of the year...
Last edited by theking; Aug 15, 2005 at 07:51 PM.
