Taller gearing
01-12-2006, 01:50 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by barthelb
Very tempting but you'll miss the point by doing that. If I can improve my best time with the change of a FD only then that shows me I have improved my time and therefore netted a better time because of the FD change. I can't sit here and compare my time to yours for numerous reasons.
Year of car
Car weight at run
Model year car
Tire size/ rim size and weight
Boost pressure/power level
I mean its cool to say it but realistically and fairly speaking theres no way to duplicate what you could do against me at a given power level. That's why its in the hands of the driver. So, my best so far at 440whp with my unknown degree negative camber was a 1.9 60ft 12.19 @ 115/6mph. So, if I had a better 60ft it would have been an easy 11.xx sec run and i have a Touring model. Now I have corrected my camber and have 462 445 @ 9.5psi. So when I change out my FD I'll let you know thats the only real way to determine it.
Year of car
Car weight at run
Model year car
Tire size/ rim size and weight
Boost pressure/power level
I mean its cool to say it but realistically and fairly speaking theres no way to duplicate what you could do against me at a given power level. That's why its in the hands of the driver. So, my best so far at 440whp with my unknown degree negative camber was a 1.9 60ft 12.19 @ 115/6mph. So, if I had a better 60ft it would have been an easy 11.xx sec run and i have a Touring model. Now I have corrected my camber and have 462 445 @ 9.5psi. So when I change out my FD I'll let you know thats the only real way to determine it.
Problem is you'll be running on a completely different day in different conditions. I wouldn't even look at your E.T. (since you've addressed traction issues prior) after the rear end change...only your trap..and even then, take it with a grain of salt. One pass on one day vs. one pass on another day won't tell you anything. If you went to the track a lot before your gear change. Calculate an average trap for all of your clean runs. Then go to the track 3 or 4 times with the new FD and average your traps on your clean runs. If you see a noticeable increase in average trap (over 1mph) then you might be on to something. But the small gearing difference from the 3.5 to 3.3 FD probably won't help you too much.
01-12-2006, 02:58 PM
#62
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Your right on the weather and track conditions, but last year that i went I made about 20 or so runs probably more. Highest trap for me was 117.9 I never made it til the end of the night when it is much cooler except for a couple runs. With the FD I will get about 3mph more out of it. I have a couple friends who have done this already. So if im consistenly trapping 117 or better I know it helped. The difference isn't as small as you think. I think its about 5mph more in a gear.
Originally Posted by BriGuyMax
Problem is you'll be running on a completely different day in different conditions. I wouldn't even look at your E.T. (since you've addressed traction issues prior) after the rear end change...only your trap..and even then, take it with a grain of salt. One pass on one day vs. one pass on another day won't tell you anything. If you went to the track a lot before your gear change. Calculate an average trap for all of your clean runs. Then go to the track 3 or 4 times with the new FD and average your traps on your clean runs. If you see a noticeable increase in average trap (over 1mph) then you might be on to something. But the small gearing difference from the 3.5 to 3.3 FD probably won't help you too much.
01-12-2006, 04:15 PM
#63
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This topic has been beat to death in the Honda world..
Acceleration is defined as the change in velocity in a unit time. Remember this.
You've got traction problems so you get longer gearing and it eliminates your traction problems. Now think real hard about this. How did it eliminate you traction problems? Are you making less power? No Is it because you are moving slower throughout the RPM range? Yup. The fact is, you are accelerating slower per unit time with the longer gears.
Sometimes getting longer gears will net you better 1/4mi times. It is taking a quicker time for you to get across the the 1/4 mark than it is to be spinning your tires, finally catching traction, then finishing.
However, two EXACT same cars and drivers except for gearing, both with ZERO traction problems, the shorter geared car will always WIN until it hits top speed.
As I said in my last post, the best solution is to get the best tires and shortest gearing possible that will allow you to achieve the maxiumum coefficient of traction (CT). The CT is the maximum force than can be applied before slippage.
Now if you were doing a top speed race, then that would be a whole different situation. If you race beyond 140-150mph, you are nuts. If your car traps that high in the 1/4mi then you would know everything I just said.
Get the best tires and suspension setup possible and affordable to you. Then touch into longer gearing.
Acceleration is defined as the change in velocity in a unit time. Remember this.
You've got traction problems so you get longer gearing and it eliminates your traction problems. Now think real hard about this. How did it eliminate you traction problems? Are you making less power? No Is it because you are moving slower throughout the RPM range? Yup. The fact is, you are accelerating slower per unit time with the longer gears.
Sometimes getting longer gears will net you better 1/4mi times. It is taking a quicker time for you to get across the the 1/4 mark than it is to be spinning your tires, finally catching traction, then finishing.
However, two EXACT same cars and drivers except for gearing, both with ZERO traction problems, the shorter geared car will always WIN until it hits top speed.
As I said in my last post, the best solution is to get the best tires and shortest gearing possible that will allow you to achieve the maxiumum coefficient of traction (CT). The CT is the maximum force than can be applied before slippage.
Now if you were doing a top speed race, then that would be a whole different situation. If you race beyond 140-150mph, you are nuts. If your car traps that high in the 1/4mi then you would know everything I just said.
Get the best tires and suspension setup possible and affordable to you. Then touch into longer gearing.
01-13-2006, 09:03 AM
#64
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Well put and thats why im gonna switch to longer gearing.
Originally Posted by Vadian
This topic has been beat to death in the Honda world..
Acceleration is defined as the change in velocity in a unit time. Remember this.
You've got traction problems so you get longer gearing and it eliminates your traction problems. Now think real hard about this. How did it eliminate you traction problems? Are you making less power? No Is it because you are moving slower throughout the RPM range? Yup. The fact is, you are accelerating slower per unit time with the longer gears.
Sometimes getting longer gears will net you better 1/4mi times. It is taking a quicker time for you to get across the the 1/4 mark than it is to be spinning your tires, finally catching traction, then finishing.
However, two EXACT same cars and drivers except for gearing, both with ZERO traction problems, the shorter geared car will always WIN until it hits top speed.
As I said in my last post, the best solution is to get the best tires and shortest gearing possible that will allow you to achieve the maxiumum coefficient of traction (CT). The CT is the maximum force than can be applied before slippage.
Now if you were doing a top speed race, then that would be a whole different situation. If you race beyond 140-150mph, you are nuts. If your car traps that high in the 1/4mi then you would know everything I just said.
Get the best tires and suspension setup possible and affordable to you. Then touch into longer gearing.
Acceleration is defined as the change in velocity in a unit time. Remember this.
You've got traction problems so you get longer gearing and it eliminates your traction problems. Now think real hard about this. How did it eliminate you traction problems? Are you making less power? No Is it because you are moving slower throughout the RPM range? Yup. The fact is, you are accelerating slower per unit time with the longer gears.
Sometimes getting longer gears will net you better 1/4mi times. It is taking a quicker time for you to get across the the 1/4 mark than it is to be spinning your tires, finally catching traction, then finishing.
However, two EXACT same cars and drivers except for gearing, both with ZERO traction problems, the shorter geared car will always WIN until it hits top speed.
As I said in my last post, the best solution is to get the best tires and shortest gearing possible that will allow you to achieve the maxiumum coefficient of traction (CT). The CT is the maximum force than can be applied before slippage.
Now if you were doing a top speed race, then that would be a whole different situation. If you race beyond 140-150mph, you are nuts. If your car traps that high in the 1/4mi then you would know everything I just said.
Get the best tires and suspension setup possible and affordable to you. Then touch into longer gearing.
01-13-2006, 04:58 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by barthelb
Well put and thats why im gonna switch to longer gearing.
Which part..to slow your car down or eliminate traction problems?? The latter won't happen with a simple rear end change. You'll still have plenty of traction problems on normal street tires.
03-01-2006, 12:37 PM
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Just wanted to let you guys know I've swapped the 3.3 fd in and man what a difference. You hit roughly 65mph in 2nd, almost 95 in 3rd and I've been driving on the freeway in 4th at 3000rpms. 3rd gear feels crazy because you blow through 65-90 really quick. Acceleration does not feel slower but actually faster. I really believe a 3.3 might be ideal for big power 6mt's. I don't know when I'll make it to a drag strip to get any change in ET's or anything as im back in school. But It does feel way different especially when your in peak booost and you have a lot of gear to continue pulling in.
03-01-2006, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by barthelb
Just wanted to let you guys know I've swapped the 3.3 fd in and man what a difference. You hit roughly 65mph in 2nd, almost 95 in 3rd and I've been driving on the freeway in 4th at 3000rpms. 3rd gear feels crazy because you blow through 65-90 really quick. Acceleration does not feel slower but actually faster. I really believe a 3.3 might be ideal for big power 6mt's. I don't know when I'll make it to a drag strip to get any change in ET's or anything as im back in school. But It does feel way different especially when your in peak booost and you have a lot of gear to continue pulling in.
03-01-2006, 01:11 PM
#68
Originally Posted by sentry65
it's a 3.36, not a 3.2 and no it won't mess up the speedometer
IMO it'll help, but not tons. It's almost not worth it. The stock 5AT diff housing will not let you put in an aftermarket LSD unless it's the 5AT cusco one I think. the 5AT housing isn't as long I don't think so that's why. What people REALLY want is the 3.3 final drive put in a 6MT housing with an LSD of their choice - however the ATS LSD will not work with the 3.36 (or 3.91) final drive so you'll have to go with Nismo, Cusco, or Quilife or whatever
IMO it'll help, but not tons. It's almost not worth it. The stock 5AT diff housing will not let you put in an aftermarket LSD unless it's the 5AT cusco one I think. the 5AT housing isn't as long I don't think so that's why. What people REALLY want is the 3.3 final drive put in a 6MT housing with an LSD of their choice - however the ATS LSD will not work with the 3.36 (or 3.91) final drive so you'll have to go with Nismo, Cusco, or Quilife or whatever
03-01-2006, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Gman2004
Subscribing for results. Could you pm what I would need to do in order to switch out to a 3.3 FD? I have a G35 6MT with the premium package. TIA.
On the other hand, barthelb's car felt great after the swap. It felt like he should shift, but just kept going. Hanging in gear for that few extra seconds made the car even scarier than it already was. Since barthelb reaches peak boost somewhere between 3000 and 4000rpm's (can't remember when) he is able to sustain peak boost for a longer period of time.
We will see once the track opens up, but I expect his ET's to go down because he can stay in gear longer and he doesn't have to shift into 5th during the 1/4 mile unless he is trapping around 125mph.
So, to answer your question, the easiest way is to find someone that has the 3.3FD and swap pumpkins. If you have the stock LSD with the premium package then you would want to find someone else with the LSD as well. It takes about an hour and a half to do the swap for experienced mechanics with the right tools. It is definitely easier and cheaper then buying a 3.3 ring and pinion then swapping the gears.
Last edited by LOU; 03-01-2006 at 01:41 PM.
03-01-2006, 02:26 PM
#70
Originally Posted by meatbag
Just want to make sure everyone knows that the housings are the same, its the gearing and differential thats different.
is it?
weird cause I have pictures somewhere showing that the 5AT housing is physically shorter in the back - from this forum somewhere. I seem to think Charles from CJ motorsports was involved with posting about it too - maybe I can find the thread
03-01-2006, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by LouZer
barthelb and I swapped pumpkins. (I had previously swapped pumpkins with a 5AT), but I have now confirmed that shorter gears and superchargers = good. Longer gears and superchargers = sluggish. It takes too long to get into the sweet spot.
On the other hand, barthelb's car felt great after the swap. It felt like he should shift, but just kept going. Hanging in gear for that few extra seconds made the car even scarier than it already was. Since barthelb reaches peak boost somewhere between 3000 and 4000rpm's (can't remember when) he is able to sustain peak boost for a longer period of time.
We will see once the track opens up, but I expect his ET's to go down because he can stay in gear longer and he doesn't have to shift into 5th during the 1/4 mile unless he is trapping around 125mph.
So, to answer your question, the easiest way is to find someone that has the 3.3FD and swap pumpkins. If you have the stock LSD with the premium package then you would want to find someone else with the LSD as well. It takes about an hour and a half to do the swap for experienced mechanics with the right tools. It is definitely easier and cheaper then buying a 3.3 ring and pinion then swapping the gears.
On the other hand, barthelb's car felt great after the swap. It felt like he should shift, but just kept going. Hanging in gear for that few extra seconds made the car even scarier than it already was. Since barthelb reaches peak boost somewhere between 3000 and 4000rpm's (can't remember when) he is able to sustain peak boost for a longer period of time.
We will see once the track opens up, but I expect his ET's to go down because he can stay in gear longer and he doesn't have to shift into 5th during the 1/4 mile unless he is trapping around 125mph.
So, to answer your question, the easiest way is to find someone that has the 3.3FD and swap pumpkins. If you have the stock LSD with the premium package then you would want to find someone else with the LSD as well. It takes about an hour and a half to do the swap for experienced mechanics with the right tools. It is definitely easier and cheaper then buying a 3.3 ring and pinion then swapping the gears.
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