ok, i just got home from the grueling 2500 mile 4 day trip to san diego then the performance nissan meet. the car ran nearly flawless the entire time and not even one ses code the whole trip. on the way down i drove pretty conservative except for quite a few blasts getting on the freeways. my heater not working was the first sign and that didn't happen till i got all the way to san diego. i had no time to work on it or even diagnose it right when it happened. finally got some time to figure it out when i got to the meet.
my overflow tank was almost full and the cooling system was about 3-4 quarts low. you could see the trail of coolant being blown out from the overflow tank. yup, i was lifting the heads at roughly 13-14psi and wasn't even really running it super hard. so motor is going to get ripped back down with plans to cure this issue permanently. will keep everyone posted as to the process i plan to cure this as i go along.

 

sorry to hear. its a huge pain in the ***. let us know how you hope to remedy it. lots of us have ideas, but its intimidating to jump into anything new with an engine that is so difficult to service later.

 

i've got a pretty simple idea that should work great, but will need to find someone local that would be able to do the machine work, as it would have to be PERFECT. i'm going to get with my machine shop tomorrow and see what we can come up with for the best route to go.
there is a good chance i just need to retorque the head studs, as i never did it according to what arp recommends, but i don't think anyone does it because it is so labor intensive to retorque after hitting some heat cycles. regardless, even with a retorque, everyone is having issues with it, or will. might as well try to shoot for a solution.
i'm bummed as my car seems to always be ripped apart, atleast i got this trip in first, cause honestly right now the thought of driving at all makes me want to puke!!! lol

 

Could the head bolts just need to be retorqued (although that will suck if they did indeed become slightly loose) - or could 1+ of the studs be heating up enough to actually expand? To me it's disturbing to hear of head lift at 13-14psi. Is just a nut being used on the stud to tighten the head down - if so would adding a washer/bolt be of any benefit with possibly better distributing downforce?

 

What are you thinking? Drilling/tapping more holes for more studs or something more dramatic?

 

So how do you tell your heads are lifting?? I have some coolant being blown out of the overflow tank..when I run really hard repeatedly..does this means my heads are lifting?? Thanks for you help..my heater still works and I have the koyo radiator and the coolant in the radiator isn't low and the temp gauge doesn't ever move??

 

ya i was VERY surprised to see it happen too. i installed everything correctly even using their own lube to further make sure torque specs were correct. they do use a pretty thick washer already, so nothing to improve there. there is a very good chance all the threads and seats can be opened up to use larger bolts if the prob is stretch. wouldn't equate to much more in the distibution of downforce or hold though, just help bolts from stretching.

 

to do this you would have to use some sort of x-ray equipment to make sure you were drilling through solid metal and not a water passage you would crush. prolly impossible to get even spacing around the bores.

 

my overflow filled up a few weeks ago after some heavy driving...the system stayed pressurized for sometime... i checked the oil for any sign of coolant, checked the plugs to see if they looked washed (blown headgasket)...and ultimately pulled the radiator cap...

i compressed the spring in the cap (greddy cap) several times to make sure it was moving--i think i freed it up, because, i ran a chemical test checking for Hydrocarbons in the coolant, none found(who knows how accurate this is..) ..and in doing that chemical test, i spilled a bunch of coolant out of the system..so, i bled the system, filled up some coolant..and to date (knock on wood) have not had any signs of overflow or cooling issues...i think it WAS the RADIATOR CAP keeping the system pressurized

 

it depends on how much you are loosing. i also saw some very small black particles in the overflow tank that are prolly carbon from the chamber, about all i can think of what it could be. i never had a problem driving here in oregon, so maybe i was lightly detonating running the lower grade cali gas.
i have been thinking of this idea for a few months now to give others a cheaper alternative to sleeving the block. now it looks as though i may even have to do it, but this way my motor will be the guinea pig.

 

i see what your saying. my temp gauge never moved at all though while this was happening, yet there was enough pressure in the overflow to literally shoot it out the little hole on to the underside of my hood. so the overflow of the overflow was not due to the motor heating up, but another cause, like gasket blow by.

 

So it was the heads that lifted which caused your problem, I thought you blew a gasket when we were at the meet but I guess not. This makes me worried now I also purchased the ARP head a main bolts. I havent finished my motor yet so let me know what your planning before i put it back together.
Thanks again for the engine mounts and your SVR Exhaust is top notch quality!

-George

 

my temp gauge never moved either, i noticed the overflow tank was nearing full upon inspection under the hood (a ritual i do everytime i get back from hard driving)

any other signs of head gasket? i'd hate to see you pull the motor for nothing

 

Brian,

I had no idea this was going on. I have quite a bit of experience with this, given my history. If your reservoir is overflowing, I am not saying this is definitely the case, but I would say that you would be nuts not to consider headgsket failure of some kind. The good news is that there is a sure way to find out, and it will only cost you $20. It's oil analysis. This will tell you the truth way before you start seeing bigger problems.

This is what I would do, in this order:

1) when the car is cool, in the morning, open the radiator cap, and see if there is any air. If oyu open the cap, and you don't see the rad filled up all the way, i.e. see coolant right there at the rim, that MAY be a symptom of air in the system.
2) Take out some oil, provided you have at least 1000 miles on it (prederably more, but not necessary).
3) go to blackstone-labs.com, order a free kit, the containers that you needto use to mail in a sample of the oil (about an ounce or so).
4) they will emai lyou the results within 2 days of receiving it.

Brian, do this to Rule IN/OUT a headgasket failure. I have a couple of these containers, and will give you one if oyu want, so you don't have to wait. PM me if so.

Good luck

Gurgen

EDIT:
P.S. Todd and overzealous, you should get this done also. It's better to know.

 

thanks george. was nice to see ya there at the meet! btw-thanks again for the help bleeding the air pocket from the system. i will look at what it will take to get this done. the machine work is going to be the toughest part. i'm hoping it will be possible to do on a fairily common piece of equipment so the program could be sent to other machine shops local to customers. if not and it works properly, blocks would have to be sent to me.

 

well heres the deal, the open deck design is the problem. all you need to do is make enough cylinder pressure and the top of the cylinder can move and momentarily break head gasket seal forcing a quick pressure into the cooling system surrounding the bores. there is really not a way for the coolant to make it to the oil in this scenario. that type of test would be good if it was the actual coolant system leaking from the head gasket.
if anyone else has any good ideas about what it could be, speak up! i can't come up with anything else.

 

hey charles, i was curious about when you pulled your motor apart. you said the head gaskets were trashed. was curious what you found. were they burned around the bores? did you see any noticeable traces of combustion passing by the gasket into the cooling system? if so, was it between the cylinders or 90 degrees from that point?

 

So basically my heads are probally lifting and my head gasket is ****ed?? great.... We'll see I'll let everyone know..What else could cause the coolent to splash out of the overflow like that??

 

unfortunatly my examination was a little inconclusive. due to me waiting 9 months to tear down the engine. there was a lot of surface corrosion on the AEBS sleeves from the coolant exposure all over them. The headgaskets were just plain disgusting looking and I was unable to tell precisely what type of failure it was. But based on what I could see, I realy want to say that I think my sleeves may have settled in the block. Another concern is that I may have just trashed them with detonation of running my stock intake manifold to very high HP, possibly causing very uneven cylinder airflow distribution.

I wish I could offer more then speculation, sorry.

 

maybe getting rid of the multi layer gaskets for a solid one and o-ringing the block would be a good way to go also.