Yancy

iTrader: (5)

Isn't that nice. I suppose that you can't share your secret either. I'm with everyone else that thinks its patently unfair to all your fellow FI Z and G brothers to hold out on everyone. I thought the forums were for people to help others out and for open communication about our cars and issues that come up?

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

I have no idea what meatbag is doing....

Guys, I invested a LOT of money to make these things in a very large quantity, so I am sorry, but since the product is not ready for sale or installation, I will not release anymore details about it. Even if I did, it's a mute point, becuase you will not be able to make or find this product anywhere...so whats the point?

Yancy

iTrader: (5)

Can you at least confirm or deny that the people that already have their engines in the car will not have to pull the engine to use what your coming up with? or does the engine need to come out to use it? Thanks.

Philthy

iTrader: (3)

If you are going to replace the head studs, half the motor needs to come apart, cams, timing cover, etc... It's a pita for sure.

If you have your block apart and getting machine work done, then the choice is simple, IMO - 1/2 studs. If you're motor is together already, then try out the L19 7/16 studs that was discussed on this forum several times already.

I've seen people quoting from $800 - $1000 bucks for 1/2 head studs, I'll dig up a part # for you guys, the ones we're using are aprx $400 and machine work should cost you no more than $200.

Juztin

iTrader: (9)

Damn where u buying your 1/2" head studs from for that price? What kind of material are they?

Yancy

iTrader: (5)

Cool. Thanks for the insite. My engine has already been assembled and has been shipped to me already. Sleeves, cometic head gasket, arp head studs. Aren't the arp head studs 7/16 also. From what I found, no one has seen the arp head studs stretch. If you were me, (having the long block already done and in a truck somewhere on its way to me) what would you do? Keep in mind that I plan to have one map for around 500 rwhp for daily driving and one for around 600 rwhp for occasional use/racing.

I'm curious if the set up I have right now is good for my intended uses and that those considering over 600 are the ones that should be worrying about the head issue and the 1/2 studs and what not? Thanks in advance bro.

t32gzz

iTrader: (1)

The signs of head lift are happening at all boost levels from 8psi and up. Maybe this is because we have all torn apart the HG's at 16 to 18psi, and it is easier for the combustion gases to seep through. I honestly think that even the 5XX whp guys will eventually have a problem.

The 1/2" studs are fairly large and could possibly affect the integrity of the block. I would be more comfortable with a modified 7/16" stud if it proved reliable.

Philthy - It sounds like you have been running 1/2' studs on your car. If so, how long have you had them and at what boost levels? Right now you are using the liners and not the MID sleeves, right?

theking

iTrader: (3)

Then you will be very comfortable with what is coming out!

overZealous1

iTrader: (27)

to do the 1/2" studs is a pretty easy process, and you could have it done locally if you choosed.
the thing for me and most others is that the power is so addicting, chances are pretty good 500rwhp simply will not be enough i am still not satisfied at my power level and have been far into the 600rwhp range. and i like to use it, lol.

my 1/2" studs will be here monday or tuesday, and i will hopefully tear my motor down in a week or so. already got my place reserved at the machine shop and hoping to have the car running again in 2-3 weeks with tons of new goodies to help this motor hold high hp reliably. if this stuff doesn't work, some big manufacturer better start making aftermarket blocks!!!

Philthy

iTrader: (3)

[QUOTE=t32gzz]
The 1/2" studs are fairly large and could possibly affect the integrity of the block. I would be more comfortable with a modified 7/16" stud if it proved reliable.
[QUOTE]

Take a look at the two blocks I posted - the Liners have 1/2 studs and the MID kit has the 7/16 - There is plenty of material for 1/2 studs. Guys are running 40psi on this setup with out a problem, but they're not street cars - they're 1/4 mile only... So the big unknown is longevity, and I don't have the answer to that yet.

The studs I'm using are carbon steel, as L19 was just over kill for 100-110ftlbs. Guys that are using the L19 are going as high as 140ftlbs - but you're talking 1500 + WHP!

The reason you would want to use L19 7/16 studs rather than the carbon steel 7/16 is you can torque them down more with out stretch. We've seen the carbon steel 7/16 studs torque down to 85-90ftlbs, before threads started ripping out. I've heard of people getting more than 90ftlbs too, but it's a big gamble on 7/16 studs regardless if they're carbon steel or L19. Also, once you add major cylinder pressure in the mix, bad things could happen.

In theory the L19 7/16 studs torque down to 90ftlbs should work out ok for guys running up to 700-800whp - but once again, no one knows for sure yet. If this works, it's a great solution for guys looking for the cheapest way out or guys that have their motors built up already.

We're all learning each day, and the BIG DISCLAIMER is - what worked for one guy, may not work for the other.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

[QUOTE=Philthy]Hey Philthy, my partner in crime tested the 7/16th studs to 110ft/lbs before they pulled the threads out of the block. Remember that your guy just used a trq plate, and cranked down the studs, and this was the likely reason his threads broke at 85ft/lbs. My partner actually installed a gasket, head, moly lube, and trq them to to 110ft/lbs.

Even trqing these new studs down to 85ft/lbs is still a 35%+ increase in clamping force.

I do agree with your disclaimer. We're all trying to develop products that reduce, but do not necessarily eliminate the risk of head lift, but I am confident this solution will work fine for the sub 800whp crowd.

Yancy, the ARP studs have an allen key hole on them, so you can remove them while leaving your block/heads in the car. It is a PITA, but it can be done. The only unknown, is whether increasing the clamping force from 65ft/lbs to roughly 85-90ft/lbs will result in cylinder distortion. Probably a little bit...but if I was my engine...I would go ahead and do it. Lots of people build engines without using trq plates anyways (not that I agree with that), but it has been done.

Philthy

iTrader: (3)

Agreed, our testing was done with the torque plate and not the heads, but not all blocks will react the same - some may hold 110ftlbs with 7/16 some may not. The odds of 1/2" studs holding 110ftlbs is pretty much a 100%.

I can't wait for you to get your testing done, it will be a killer solution for all of these already built blocks out there.

t32gzz

iTrader: (1)

I apologize in advance for the stupid question, but using a torque plate will limit the amount you can torque the studs down?

In Sharif's post above it looks like the studs backed out at 85 ft/lbs with the tq plate, and 110 ft/lbs without. Is there a secret besides not using the tq plate to torqueing the studs further?

theking

iTrader: (3)

They tested when the studs would pull out and with just the torque plate they stripped at 85ft/lbs. With all the other materials involved(elastomers, multilayer metals in hg's and heads) this didn't happen until a much higher torque rating.

aalzuhair

iTrader: (2)

Come on guys .... your killing me here ..... I need to know man ... just this once ... I will never ask for anything else ...... pleassssssssssssssssssse man .... have some mercy

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

I think there is a little bit of confusion here. Philithy's partner only installed the trq plate, and then used some spacers and trqed down the studs. In my example, we used actual heads, gasket, moly lube. All of this will spread the load consistently across the block deck, and should keep the studs from deflecting, and stripping the threads in the block.

It will be a good idea to chase the threads with a tap, to clean up any foreign material, and thoroughly clean each hole before trqing down the studs.

overZealous1

iTrader: (27)

i plan on creating more thread depth into the block than the current length studs are reaching. plus with the bolt actually being larger diameter, it is grabbing more thread material to hold better and stronger. we are looking for 1.5-1.75" thread engagement into the block. no worries of pull out there.

t32gzz

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for clarifying Sharif. I knew I was missing something.

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

Would it be less expensive for me just to rebuild my turbos to 20g's so I can make 600whp at <13psi instead of going with new bolts? I wouldn't have to pull the motor to get this done.

overZealous1

iTrader: (27)

not sure how more hp is going to help you get away from the head lifting issue lol