I'm in the process of having a long block built and decided to not get the block sleeved, but the heads are being ported and JWT cams used. My hp goal is around 600 rwhp and, like many other people on here, I'm concerned about the headlift issue some have experienced. I believe this has occurred on sleeved and non-sleeved engines. If that is the case, is the overheating issue the culprit causing the heads to lift and does the "breather" tank that some are using adequately address this issue? Would adding an APS oil pan, Koyo radiator and oil cooler assist (along with using a breather tank)? Thanks to everyone in advance?

 

For your hp goals I would sleeve the block. I don't know if I had head lift, but at 12.5psi and 543whp I had carbon residue in my coolant. I had a built long block with cams, ported, etc. everything except sleeves and valvetrain. I now have a PE radiator and the breather tank but I am keeping under 12psi until I sleeve the block.

I have talked with other members that had all the mods you listed above except for sleeves and they are experiencing something at higher boost levels whether it be heads lifting or heads shifting they don't know.

 

I would leave it at the 500-550whp without sleeving. Keep this mind, as you search and talk to different people and shops about their recommendations: Can you run 600-650whp on the open deck...yes...but will the engine last as a daily driver for thousands and thousands of miles...probably not.
Numbers only paint half the picture....longevity is the other part that nobody ever talks about.

 

In all honesty, SGP has pushed many cars in the High 600's without sleeving their blocks, A well built engine with propper cooling and put togeither with ALL GUIDELINES FOLLOWED there shouldn't be any issues. I my self am going for 650rwhp without sleeves just a fully built shortblock and cometic head gasket most likely. Yancy for your HP goals, you should be fine. Then again I am only taking my engine to 7100rpms as appose to most longblocks who go to the 8000's.

 

Time will tell. But 650whp with nothing more than an upgraded headgasket, and some cooling system upgrades/mods might not give you the results you are looking for....in the LONG term.

 

My Z is not a daily driver, but during the nice months in Michigan (May thru Oct) I drive it Fri-thru Sun and have been known to push the car a bit when running into some pretty fast domestics.

So is this headlift issue something limited to nonsleeved engines? If it's not too late to get my LB sleeved, I think I'm going to go this route for piece of mind. I've sent a PM to my builder so hopefully the block hasn't been sent to be machined just yet. I believe the core he just received is getting broke down now and he planned to send it out to the machine shop Fri (3/17) or Monday (3/20). I beleive adding the sleeves should likely take an additional 2 or so weeks?

 

Hey Gman,
When you say "had" when referring to head lift and carbon residue, was that just recently? You just got SGP LB No. 3 right? How is that package? Your engine is solid now right but you're worried about head lift if you go past 12 psi on this LB? Thanks.

 

in my situation, i am having a feeling now that i was tuned pretty close to the limit and ran the lower octane gas in cali and was getting light detonation. even light detonation can double normal cylinder pressures. i have never had a problem of loosing a drop of coolant in oregon and the higher octane fuel. none the less, it is an area that could use attention.
even if the cylinder tops only vibrate at first and not lose its seal, the vibration will crush the gasket over time making the seal weaker. sleeving will help the cylinder tops, but there is another prob to look at also. the head studs. possible stretching can also be happening, which sleeves would not help at all and cylinder leakage could still happen even with sleeves.

 

I always run Sunoco 94 or higher gas. What is the safest thing to do at this point - sleeve if there is still time to do it or not sleeve? Is the headlift issue more likely to occur on a 600 hp sleeved engine or a 600 hp nonsleeved engine? Is this something unique to our engines, because I know guys that have turbo mustangs and crazy Cobras with after market SC that don't have this issue. Thanks in advance.

 

sleeved block would prolly be better than a non sleeved one. the main question though is that, is it the cylinders moving or the head studs stretching that happens first? only a couple people know, and they ain't talking!! lol. i am getting a blown block and heads here in a few days and going to be cutting it apart and doing some testing. i have alot of preliminary ideas.

 

That was with motor #2. I am on motor #3. #3 is basically motor #2 with rehoned cylinder walls and CP pistons. I fried 3 wiseco pistons on motor #2 (too many things to list why I fuked up #2). Anyway I am only running 10psi right now because I didn't want to push the motor anymore with the EU. The motor is solid and it makes good power at low boost.....10psi 519whp on a dynopack. I am getting the HKS FCON on Monday and retuning, but I will only go to 11 or 12psi max because I am concerned about head lift. I've had so many problems with my car that I just want to get it running perfect so I can enjoy it for a couple of months before I send it back for 800whp.

So in closing since they just started on your motor I would recommend that you just get the sleeves, because eventually you will want more power. I'd say 80% of the FI guys on this forum said they would be happy with just XXXwhp and later down the road they almost always want more......and yes this incudes the guys in the 600whp club.

 

Yancy, if you need your block sleeved, contact me. Sleeves should be installed with a CNC machine, and most local machine shops dont have this equipment. I can arrange sleeving and install for you, and it takes about 1 week turnaround time.

 

Thanks for everything guys. I've decided to get the sleeves. Hopefully, the WIseco's weren't the problem in your last engine cuz that's what's going in mine. Your statement "(too many things to list why I fuked up #2)" leads me to think that there was more to it than that. These pistons should be good to 600 or less (of course - unless there is a very poor tune, but most pistons will have issues if that is the case). Thanks.

 

Definitely do what Sharif is saying. Darton made the sleeves and you should let them or a shop that has installed these sleeves before install them(Performance is about the only other shop I would trust). I had a non sleeved built motor and I had the head lift issue.

 

Mjdeans (I always butcher his screen name), is running Darton sleeves with 99mm+ sized pistons, Cometic/Cosworth HG, and standard ARP studs. No head lift issues at 800whp+ at the track.

 

The pistons weren't the problem it was the chitty install job from South Florida Performance. My tune was off as well, but that was not Sharif's fault. I should have had the car retuned after I got my 3" exhaust. Sharif had my car in NC with the Greddy EVO II exhaust and he could not get my car to make power past 4500 rpms. Also the more they turned up the boost the less power I made. They worked on it for a week and he finally figured out that the exhaust was choking the motor. Sharif disconneted the exahust at the test pipes and it ran fine. He tuned it this way. After he put the EVO II back on it was running rich, because of the restriction. When I drove back to Miaimi I had a custom 3" exhaust made from the turbos all the way back and I was hoping that it would lean it out and get it close, but even the 3" didn't compare to no exhaust. I should have had the a/f tweaked a bit cause they were in the low 9's at certain loads and maybe lower as my wideband does not go lower then 9's.

My rod bolt got disconnected on my waste gate which cause me to overboost. I was running my injectors at almost max duty. South Florida Perfomance used the turbo piping for the non intercooler greddy tt version which was rubbing up against my firewall and eventually it wore a hole in the pipe. Should I go on?

 

2 quest.:

1. What are you planning on upgrading in the future to get 800 whp? Head gaskets and sleves?

2. Did you ever find out how SGP got you temp. to run so cool?

 

Sleeves, head gasket, pistons, upgrade fuel system, ATS tripple clutch, upgrade 18G to 20G's, and new axles.

A breather tank and internal modications to the cooling system. I am the least mchanically inclined person so I don't what they did.

What finally happened with your car? What are you going with and when do you get it back?

 

Right now the engine is being completly rebuilt and installed/tuned by Sharif using the rebuilt/upgraded APS ST. The works.... call me I have a few questions for you. PMed.

 

+1
I have to agree with this.... No on here talks about cycle life... And yea head lift is a concern around 600hp 1/2 ARP studs will help... Someone on this board had headlift crusing back home and he was around 550whp...