slightly off subject, but I was looking at vortech's compressor maps comparing the stock blower to the T-trim blower on a 3.5 liter vs 4.26 liter engine for the GTM stroker kit. I did all the math formula stuff and came up with these charts for different blower setups ranging from 2500-7000 rpms. Everything would vary a little though depending on how free flowing the exhaust/cams/cats/headers etc are

the stock blower is represented by the solid green curved ovals. You want the line to stay inside the smallest island as much as possible which has the higher efficiency % which means the blower will put out higher power and not work as hard to do it (heat up) The T-trim blower are the purple dashed ovals

The teal line is the stock vortech at 8 psi. It runs nicely inside the most efficient island of the blower on the graph.

My car running 11.5 psi graphed as the blue line and it skirts away from the inner efficient island and overall does make more airflow since it lands further to the right

I also mapped a T-trim blower which is the red line is the T-trim blower making around 14.5. It's on the outter skirts of the T-trim's efficiency range. It does flow overall a lot more than my setup and overall is pretty much the same efficiency treading near the 70% curves. This line might also represent what it'd look like if you could run something like a 2.4x inch pulley on the stock blower - which isn't all that horrible as far as the efficiency of the stock blower goes considering the extra airflow, but the challenge would be getting the belt to not slip. The line might possibly supposed to be slightly more curved than how I have it drawn, but you still get the idea

When I map the T-trim blower with a 4.26 liter engine as the pink line (making about 11.9psi on a 4.26L engine instead of 14.5psi due to the bigger displacement), things change for the better in a dramatic way. There's more overall airflow, about 9% more, and it's almost all in the most efficient island of the T-trim blower which means more hp on top of that 9% increase in flow. Basically, the 3.5 liter engine isn't big enough to really make the T-trim blower shine.

when I tried experimenting with a 4.26 stroker kit with the stock blower and 2.87 pulley which is the black line. It isn't very great. It goes way beyond the 65% range in the upper rpms where it's going to be pumping a lot of hotter air into the engine. The stock 3.33 pulley on the stock blower would be even worse (didn't graph it) You'd just never run something like that anyway, but it'd be somewhere below the black line near the outter green ring, and not going as far to the right


btw, if this was a turbo compressor map, usually a turbo graph looks like it shoots up high at the left then pretty much go straight across horizontally to the right and of course the ovals are different and the inner island is higher in efficiency, like around 75%


so to summerize as far as the efficiency of the blowers:

stock blower on 3.5L engine = good
overdriven stock blower on 3.5L engine = pretty good
T-trim on 3.5L engine = pretty good

stock blower on 4.26L engine = horrible
overdriven stock blower on 4.26L engine = not really ideal
T-trim on 4.26L engine = awesome

 

Thats a hell of alot of work to figure that one out . I can tell you , its a night and day difference from the stock blower and the T-trim . With a little more tuning [ better EMU ] I could easily make 100whp or more with the T-trim over the stock blower with the 3.12 pulley.

Are you going to do a stroker motor ?

 

we'll see, not for awhile if my stock bottom end can last for a couple years or so. I am expecting to possibly hurt the pistons at some point though, but we'll see if I can prevent that with 96ish octane gas and water injection.

I figure to get the 4.26L setup I want, it'll take $20k for the longblock, T-trim, Fcon Vpro, labor and tuning and don't want to max out my credit right now. If I blew my engine tomorrow, I'd still wait 6 months anyway to see how the stroker kit does with other people's setups who have more money than me to throw around. It also depends on if the kit really does deliver what it's supposed to and isn't a vaporware product. I probably won't be the first person to experiment with such an expensive setup if I can help it. But I think it's the perfect setup for a T-trim vortech and would really help out on the low end torque in a big way (like around 300 tq at the wheels at 2000rpms). I think it'd feel like driving some sort of super Z06 with how the power is delivered and how short the Z's gearing is

We're all still waiting to see dynos, but I think it'd basically add 21% more NA power to the engine in NA form, then you add the hp increase that the FI kit gave you over the NA setup then subtract some power from the blower not running as efficient. On my car, I was around 272whp on the dyno dynamics dyno, so in theory the stroker kit would bring me to almost 330whp. If you had ported heads, the GTM supercharger/NA cams, big ferrea valves and kept the compression ratio to something like 10:1 with race gas, that'd probably add an extra 10-15whp over a regular VQ with nismo/jwt cams.

When I added my vortech on and did everything after my 272whp dyno, I'm now at 435whp so that's a 163whp gain. So the theory is that if I got the stroker kit right now, I'd hit almost 500whp, but I don't think it would because the stock blower wouldn't be nearly as efficient so I'm going to guess I'd make 480whp. Switch to a T-trim and I don't even know what it'd make, but I'm sure it'd be well over 500whp on a dyno dynamics dyno. Realistically (and some people will flame me for guessing) but I think it'd make 560-630whp and 490-570tq with a T-trim blower when using a dynojet running what would be around 12ish lbs of boost on a 4.26L

lol wouldn't that be funny telling people you're only running 12 lbs of boost on a vortech and everyone would think you're small potatoes! Especially since it's only a supercharger and not a TT. It'd be a totally different engine. Kinda like how 12 psi on a viper engine would be monsterous, or how only 10 psi on a C6 vette nets around 700whp

The turbo guys who get it might have to reevaluate their turbo size. For instance the stock JWT turbos I think are going to be WAY too small for the 4.26 kit. The turbos would fully spool kinda how it is with the 3.5L engine in that full boost will be reached at like 2500 rpms, but the wastegates would let more air into the engine instead of out the wastegate to make that 6.8 or whatever lbs of boost it's set at. the 4.26L engine would feel like at 2050 rpms, what it'd feel like at 2500 rpms on the 3.5L engine. But the turbos would then max out at like 5600-6000 rpms, falling on their face after that (tq would just DROP, and hp would even maybe start dropping while the turbo was overdriven getting super hot).

My guess is the SFR kit might match up well with the 4.26 since they're bigger than the other TT kits, and the stock greddy turbos might be ok but then again I really don't think you'd want to go all the way to 4.26L anyway with a TT running 15+ lbs of boost (which won't drop like a SC would unless you set the wastegate to limit it to lower boost) I think 3.8-4L would be the better choice, and not doing a big overbore so it can handle the monster torque that the engine would be seeing with the heads seating better

Single turbos IMO would be completely out of the question to run - even with the stage 2 TN kit, unless someone comes out with like a 4 inch single exhaust or some custom dual exhaust because there's going to be a lot more air flow for a single exhaust to be able to handle and the turbo might need to be something even bigger than the stage 2 TN turbo

then again I could be wrong...

 

I got my car back finally after some last minute fixes/tweaks, and now that I've spent some time in the car thought I'd give my impressions

Some have seen my new dyno sheet in another thread from when the engine is running hot making a fairly consistent 420whp on the dyno.

As pointed out by booger, my belt appears to be slipping and I'm losing some boost starting at 5500 rpms and onward. The belt is a little loose feeling compared to normal so that's probably what's going on. Otherwise it'd seem that it should be in the 430-445whp range on my shop's dyno (DD)


It took me a bit to acclimate myself with the car again after not driving it for about 3 weeks. That damn ATS clutch takes a bit to get used to again after driving normal clutches in other cars, but after a bit, all was well again. The car really isn't an ideal street car you'd wanna drive everyday. It really is more set up as a track/drift/autox car. It sucks pretty hard dealing with how sensitive everything is during rush hour - which I had to deal with for 30 min today, but this car isn't my daily driver car anyway

I don't have traction in 1st or 2nd gear. I know people might think that's pretty cool and from a power perspective I guess it is, but it kinda irritates me not being able to floor the gas all the way and not have to worry about going sideways into a wall or another car. The handling things I have planned out should help a little with traction and I'll also use less negative camber in the rear. I might someday switch some things around and try to get some 315's on the rear - like the Nitto NT-01's or something. If worse comes to worse, I'll go back to the 3.5 final drive and get an ATS LSD to go with it. But considering I'm running 295 pirelli corsa competition tires in the rear, it's kinda made me rethink wanting more power if I can't end up using it in 1st or 2nd gear - we'll see. Thank god for my nismo LSD though. When the car broke traction, it'd get a little tail happy, but still not like it was before without the LSD

It does haul *** though. I did some WOT runs and it's noticeably faster than before. The throttle response is really agile and the car sounds pissed off angry at WOT - moreso with the AAM cats vs my old crawfords. The first time I went WOT with my wife in the car, she curled up into a ball in fear so I mean, I suppose it must feel pretty fast [IMG]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG] She kept commenting so many times throughout the drive how pissed off the car sounds and that you hear most of the engine sound coming from behind the car. I very clearly remember how my car sounded when stock or with JWT intake that all the sound came from the front

While in 5th gear at 4k rpms, stabbing the throttle then letting off, then doing it again etc was instantly responsive. It feels NA in terms of being reactive and awake with the lightweight drivetrain and 3.9 FD reving up the engine quickly. It'll give you that "holy @#$@!!!" feeling. According to my boost chart, I'm making exactly 6 psi at 4000 rpms. You could feel the force of getting pushed back in your seat then feeling pushed forward almost as hard, then pushed back in your seat again. As long as I'm above 3500 rpms, 5th gear in general feels like 2nd gear in a bone stock Z in terms of acceleration G forces. If you're going WOT and instead of shifting fast you shift it kinda at a normal cruising speed, you really feel the car slow down a lot while shifting. It's like using the brakes almost. So obviously shifting fast while going WOT is going to be much smoother. It's like there's a rocket strapped to the back of the car and you're turning it on and off


The car is idling at 1300 rpms with the AC off and it is a freaking smooth and mean sounding idle. There's absolutely no bad vortech sounds. You hear the presence of the belt and blower turning and that's it. No rattles, no weird vibrations, nothing

That tanabe brace seems to help the handling from what I remember the car feeling like, but it could just be the placebo effect. I've already bumped it on all sorts of things - fairly lightly anyway. After driving a celica for 3 weeks, the Z feels heavy as hell, but still fairly nimble. Relocating the battery to the rear I'm sure helps, but it's not like you'll really notice it individually

 

comming along smooth! im not to this point yet with my car having all the bugs worked out b/c i dont have it here im jellous. your progress is great and thanks for posting the details i enjoy it

 

thanks EP3



Today I tried not using first gear and instead starting out in 2nd gear. It's perfect. You just put it in 2nd gear and floor the gas and the car hooks right up and takes off all the way to 60mph at 7000 rpms in a single gear. It's also WAY easier to drive around town with my clutch so it's not as twitchy and rev happy or loud. Also not as jerky since it eliminates the 1st-2nd shift. Also today it was hotter outside than at night and didn't break traction quite as dramatically in 2nd gear

I'm making about
1.5 psi at 2000 rpms
2.2 psi at 2500 rpms
3 psi at 3000 rpms

according to my dynocharts, compared to stock, I'm making about
90 ft/lb more tq at 2000 rpms
100 ft lbs more tq at 2500 rpms
105 ft lbs more tq at 3000 rpms

I took pictures but the sun washed them out too much being around noon

 

Im really surprised you havent started talking about getting rid of the 3.9 rear . Hell the 3.5 in my AT5 makes 1st & 2nd gear useless at full throttle

 

right now my rear camber is something like -3.5 degrees. I'm going to try putting it to around -1.5 so more rubber can get on the ground, then combined with using solid diff mounts, JIC camber and traction rods which have much stiffer bushings, and then the stiffer nismo bushings, I'm hoping that'll help a little with eliminating any rebound the weight transfer might encounter

I don't have a lot of wheelhop right now, but I'm hoping those things will help just enough to make 2nd gear have 100% traction again. During the day it almost does have 100% traction, but around 5500 rpms or so it starts losing it just a little.

I'll only ditch the 3.9 after I've tried every other option. I'll switch to 315mm wide tires in the rear first before going back to the 3.5

I think having the nismo LSD, competition tires, and solid engine mounts are helping me have as much traction as I currently have. If I was running normal street tires or the stock LSD, it'd probably be a mess

I think even if I had the 3.5 or 3.3 FD, 1st gear still wouldn't hook without drag radials or slicks. So my best alternative option is to use 2nd gear with the 3.9 FD to make it a little more aggressive. And I can still do 0-60 mph in 2nd gear at 7000 rpms.

 

here's pics of the engine bay

 

here's pics of the battery relcated, MSD booster pump, and the tanabe brace

 

Holy crap -3.5!! Wow I thought my -2 in the rear was bad. You will see a huge difference with another 1.5 degrees of positive camber Sentry. I love the feeling of getitng back in the Z after not driving it for a while, the acceleration is scary at first. The Tanabe brace is nice, I read elsewhere it didnt fit quite right though can you tell me more about that? And 1 more Q, it may have been asked-is that DD "dynojet" corrected or run at the no correction added 1.00 correction factor?

 

Alberto I've just been posting DD numbers so far. I haven't dynoed on a DJ yet, and I'm really not all that sure where I stand since my belt is slipping on the DD dynos I've done so far. I'd guess that I'm in the mid-upper 400's though on a DJ and close to 390-400tq. If my belt wasn't slipping, my charts look like they'd hit 440-445whp on the DD dyno so whatever that'd be on a DJ - 470-480?

I'm just guessing it's -3.5 because it looks worse than when it was last adjusted which I think ended up being -2.5 or -3, I don't remember. I'm thinking maybe the bushing on my SPC rods has worn in and offset the camber a little. It's really noticably angled though

I'm not aware of any issues with my tanabe brace, but I never asked if there were any problems with it either. I have heard a few pops though the day I got my car back. Not sure what that was - maybe the brace was settling in or something? I might notice a little difference, but I'm not sure I'd say it's a huge difference if you already have the GT spec ladder brace. It's just hard to tell since I was 3 weeks away from my car

 

Sorry man, I recently read you post this in an old thread regarding the Tanabe brace, I remembered it wrong...

I know you havent gone to a Dynojet, what I was asking was did your shop add any extra corrections to your dyno to make it read like a Dynojet?

 

no they don't use dynojet correction on their dyno

bone stock Z's dyno around 210-220whp on their dyno

 

Coming along nicely!

 

what ever the dyno number is.... dont matter the car still a beast...ncie job dude

 

hell yeah it is,

 

Awesome thread! Congrats on your project.

 

thanks guys

here's the things being put on my car as we speak, but because of delays won't be done until probably next week or shortly after:

-cooling mist water injection kit - done
-Fast Intentions Intimidator dual 2.5in exhaust
-TIMROD vortech belt setup and new belt (reaching full 12 psi instead of of slipping at 10psi like my last dyno)
-JIC camber arms
-JIC traction/toe rods
-JIC steering tie rods - done
-GT spec lateral rear brace
-powergrid front sway bar end links
-SPL solid differential bushing set
-Project Kics hollow racing lug nuts (Rays lug nuts wear out fast and get chewed up)
-SPL racing seat - driver side
-tuning and alignment


we'll see where I end up, but I can only assume with the new exhaust, water injection and an additional 2 psi that I'll put more power down, mainly in the 5000-6600 rpm range. My guess is around 25-35 more whp on their dyno-dynamics dyno with 0-5 more tq


for later around april, I have a preorder put in for the cosworth intake manifold to replace the SSV I've been running
I have a CJM stage 2 hardpipe upgrade, but will probably wait to put it on until the CJM twin pump assembly comes out and just do both at the same time
I'll also replace the passenger seat with an SPL racing seat after some of the bigger people I know get a ride in the car
still waiting to see how the Cobb Tuning ECU software turns out, might give that a shot and then ditch the mighty APEXI SAFCII


I had a set of nismo bushings on order since nov 15...and still don't have them so I cancelled my order. I was hoping to install them this round. But since SPL and I think another company are talking about doing spherical ball bearings I might wait for those to materialize instead. I really like the feel of stiffer bushings.

I also have a couple friends who know how to build rollbars and cages. I might decide to have the entire rear speaker/cubby area cut out and replaced with cross beams and a roll bar. I'm not going to go for a full cage though cause on the street I wouldn't want to crack my head open on the bar going across the upper door if I was in an accident, and I don't feel like ditching the tripple A-pillar gauge pod quite yet

 

^^Damn...should be better than ever after all that. Make sure you get pics of the TIMROD setup.