my vortech tuner kit install process thread
04-10-2006, 02:23 PM
#121
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This should be a reality show! Man i hope everything works out for you and i cant wait to know the final result with everything. Ive got my fingers crossed for you!
04-14-2006, 10:45 AM
#123
good news!
the problem was the clutch wasn't lined up right. It was one hole off. So it started right up when it was lined up right.
So phew that's a relief for all of us.
Now the debate of the hour is the ATS clutch - being new it needs a light break in period.
Dynocomp was thinking the first 200 miles need to be driven lightly. Other people have said it needs about 1000 miles of light break in time.
I need to get the car tuned or at least checked to see where the A/F and timing are at. The engine is more important than the clutch so I'm leaning towards having them do some light dynoing to and do some quick ballpark adjustments. Then a couple weeks later, I'll come back to get the car fine tuned and some other misc stuff done.
Jon is going to talk it over with Rich, the tuner who has more experience with carbon clutches
2 other possabilities are me put the stock clutch in and tune with that - assuming it'll last thru the dyno, then pay the 5 hours labor to have the ATS put back in (agh)
or, I have an A/F gauge, I can run 101 octane gas for awhile and as long as I keep an eye on the gauges and don't floor the **** out of the clutch I can get by for a couple weeks, then bring it in to tune...
the problem was the clutch wasn't lined up right. It was one hole off. So it started right up when it was lined up right.
So phew that's a relief for all of us.
Now the debate of the hour is the ATS clutch - being new it needs a light break in period.
Dynocomp was thinking the first 200 miles need to be driven lightly. Other people have said it needs about 1000 miles of light break in time.
I need to get the car tuned or at least checked to see where the A/F and timing are at. The engine is more important than the clutch so I'm leaning towards having them do some light dynoing to and do some quick ballpark adjustments. Then a couple weeks later, I'll come back to get the car fine tuned and some other misc stuff done.
Jon is going to talk it over with Rich, the tuner who has more experience with carbon clutches
2 other possabilities are me put the stock clutch in and tune with that - assuming it'll last thru the dyno, then pay the 5 hours labor to have the ATS put back in (agh)
or, I have an A/F gauge, I can run 101 octane gas for awhile and as long as I keep an eye on the gauges and don't floor the **** out of the clutch I can get by for a couple weeks, then bring it in to tune...
04-14-2006, 11:36 AM
#125
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I would not take a chance with such an expensive clutch. You can have the EU adjusted so that it is safe to drive while you break in the clutch.....have the timing retarded and a/f's made richer. I drove my built long block with TT untuned for a thousand miles to break in the clutch and motor. It's your car so you do what you feel is best, but after waiting all this time I wouldn't take the chance especially with the price of the ATS. If I had the extra money and wanted my car back that bad, I would just pay the extra 5 hours of labor. I've paid extra many times before just to have my car back sooner. Good luck what ever you decide.
Last edited by Gman2004; 04-14-2006 at 12:02 PM.
04-14-2006, 11:50 AM
#126
yeah i'm definetly not going to be going all out with a huge tune right now
I don't trust technosquare - it's hit or miss with their tune and the 440 injector flash so I'm thinking of having it lightly dynoed - but not above 4500 rpms and just drive it gently for awhile and keep it below 3500 rpms and try not to go WOT until the car gets fully tuned
I'll schedule an appointment with them a couple weeks from now to get it tuned and the other misc stuff
It sounds like I'll be getting the car back today one way or another though. He has to calibrate my A/F gauge and make sure there are no leaks, refill the freon into the AC compressor, then some light dynoing.
I don't trust technosquare - it's hit or miss with their tune and the 440 injector flash so I'm thinking of having it lightly dynoed - but not above 4500 rpms and just drive it gently for awhile and keep it below 3500 rpms and try not to go WOT until the car gets fully tuned
I'll schedule an appointment with them a couple weeks from now to get it tuned and the other misc stuff
It sounds like I'll be getting the car back today one way or another though. He has to calibrate my A/F gauge and make sure there are no leaks, refill the freon into the AC compressor, then some light dynoing.
Last edited by sentry65; 04-14-2006 at 11:55 AM.
04-14-2006, 12:33 PM
#128
Gman2004, how has the ATS carbon clutch worked out for you? I've been reading the first few hundred miles kinda suck before it starts driving better.
I'm sure it'll feel like cake compared to the tilton I've been driving for a year and a half. My feeling was the tilton was slightly too fast for what I'd prefer, but I did like it a lot in the higher gears when downshifting
ok, we've decided to put the car on the dyno and do a 65% throttle up to redline a few times and see where we're at and determine if it's safe enough or not. I guess it isn't so much about how high you rev it as it is about how much load you put on the clutch.
I'll definetly be babying the car for a few hundred miles
I'm sure it'll feel like cake compared to the tilton I've been driving for a year and a half. My feeling was the tilton was slightly too fast for what I'd prefer, but I did like it a lot in the higher gears when downshifting
ok, we've decided to put the car on the dyno and do a 65% throttle up to redline a few times and see where we're at and determine if it's safe enough or not. I guess it isn't so much about how high you rev it as it is about how much load you put on the clutch.
I'll definetly be babying the car for a few hundred miles
Last edited by sentry65; 04-14-2006 at 01:41 PM.
04-14-2006, 06:54 PM
#129
well the car went up on the dyno and the A/F was reading great - 12.x for a bit...until it hit around 3000 rpms or so where it started rising up to 14-15 so they shut it down right there. This was at partial throttle from what I understand
I wasn't there when it happened, but they said the car wants to make power and if the hp curve continued, it would have read about 370whp on the base technosquare tune. It's on a dyno dynamics dyno, so factoring in dynojet tuning (+13%), that'd be around 418whp which is pretty close to where I'm trying to get to.
They believe there is an issue with the fuel system. They think I bought the wrong fuel pump - walbro 255. I guess there are two types, a low flow, and high flow version of the fuel pump called the 241 or 242. If that isn't the problem, they think it might be an O-ring or something like that.
My homework over the weekend is to see if I can find out what version of the fuel pump I bought - got it from Z1 performance about 9 months ago. If I don't find out, dynocomp will replace the fuel pump with one of the ones they have on hand and see if anything changes with the A/F
The car does fire right up and wow. The solid engine mounts are pretty crazy. I started the car up and lightly reved it to 2-3k rpms and holy crap it feels like there's a V12 in the car! There is some mild vibration at idle - just enough to notice, but when reving the car I suspect it'd give tingles down your spine if you were to fully rev it to redline under full load.
Now start up is actually quieter than before as far as exhaust sound. The rpms don't skyrocket when starting. Before with my tilton clutch, the rpms would jump really high when starting up - it did it in a sudden and quick rev up. Now, with the heavier and wider ATS flywheel and extra vortech piping, startup doesn't seem to be quite as dramatic, loud, or quick as before, but there is the whine of the SC and the huge vibration with the motor mounts.
I know some people might not understand this without actually watching a movie at my house, but the motor mounts in a way are parallel with my home theater system. I have a large subwoofer setup which by itself is pretty cool. But I eventually tried using what are called Bass Shakers, and Buttkickers - which are vibrating things that you channel subwoofer frequencies to and nail them to the frame of your couches/chairs. You use them in addition with subwoofers. Because bass is mostly felt, it feels like the bass is 2-3x as strong - yet there's no headache from rumbling or neighbors complaining. Everyone I know has said they can't believe how awesome it feels. The solid motor mounts so far with the limited experience I've had - feel like that. I could see how some people might not like it and think it's just too much for ALL the time - and who knows, maybe under WOT I might get tired of them, but I honestly was a little thrilled
so the plan is to be done with the car on tuesday because they're taking monday off because of the holiday. So the saga will continue next week.
I wasn't there when it happened, but they said the car wants to make power and if the hp curve continued, it would have read about 370whp on the base technosquare tune. It's on a dyno dynamics dyno, so factoring in dynojet tuning (+13%), that'd be around 418whp which is pretty close to where I'm trying to get to.
They believe there is an issue with the fuel system. They think I bought the wrong fuel pump - walbro 255. I guess there are two types, a low flow, and high flow version of the fuel pump called the 241 or 242. If that isn't the problem, they think it might be an O-ring or something like that.
My homework over the weekend is to see if I can find out what version of the fuel pump I bought - got it from Z1 performance about 9 months ago. If I don't find out, dynocomp will replace the fuel pump with one of the ones they have on hand and see if anything changes with the A/F
The car does fire right up and wow. The solid engine mounts are pretty crazy. I started the car up and lightly reved it to 2-3k rpms and holy crap it feels like there's a V12 in the car! There is some mild vibration at idle - just enough to notice, but when reving the car I suspect it'd give tingles down your spine if you were to fully rev it to redline under full load.
Now start up is actually quieter than before as far as exhaust sound. The rpms don't skyrocket when starting. Before with my tilton clutch, the rpms would jump really high when starting up - it did it in a sudden and quick rev up. Now, with the heavier and wider ATS flywheel and extra vortech piping, startup doesn't seem to be quite as dramatic, loud, or quick as before, but there is the whine of the SC and the huge vibration with the motor mounts.
I know some people might not understand this without actually watching a movie at my house, but the motor mounts in a way are parallel with my home theater system. I have a large subwoofer setup which by itself is pretty cool. But I eventually tried using what are called Bass Shakers, and Buttkickers - which are vibrating things that you channel subwoofer frequencies to and nail them to the frame of your couches/chairs. You use them in addition with subwoofers. Because bass is mostly felt, it feels like the bass is 2-3x as strong - yet there's no headache from rumbling or neighbors complaining. Everyone I know has said they can't believe how awesome it feels. The solid motor mounts so far with the limited experience I've had - feel like that. I could see how some people might not like it and think it's just too much for ALL the time - and who knows, maybe under WOT I might get tired of them, but I honestly was a little thrilled
so the plan is to be done with the car on tuesday because they're taking monday off because of the holiday. So the saga will continue next week.
Last edited by sentry65; 04-14-2006 at 07:02 PM.
04-14-2006, 10:16 PM
#132
yeah, when I dynoed at dynochip I made 270whp, then when I did it at intense motorsports, I did 282whp - back when I was NA. Then 2-3 months later I did I think 270 at intense motorsports on the katrina benefit day - both places being dynojets
so I figure they're all over the board, but nice to know your results with the % diff
so I figure they're all over the board, but nice to know your results with the % diff
Last edited by sentry65; 04-14-2006 at 10:21 PM.
04-18-2006, 10:27 AM
#133
update:
the fuel issue was fixed. The Walbro pump was the correct pump, but they noticed two little bumps or something on it that don't seem to be on the other ones they have in the shop. So they notched out part of the rubber boot or something that it sits in to make sure it's sitting flat against it. Something like that anyway. And he used a clamp on some hoses instead of a tie thing. Either way it works now.
They set the load on the dyno to 500 which was explained as being as if the car is driving down hill and gave it about 70% throttle and the technosquare A/F was 12.5-12.1 with it starting to go up a little around 5000rpms. He didn't go to redline. This is without the emanage ultimate plugged in
He's going to drive it around for a bit to see if there's anything weird or leaks etc then call me to come pick it up this afternoon
still can't drive it hard though. I'll post my initial reactions to the car as soon as I get it back and do some driving.
Oh, and he did say he's already tightened the belt twice with as little as it's already been driven. My understanding is it'll have to be tightened a few times during break in with that Gates belt, then it's good to go for about 10k miles
the fuel issue was fixed. The Walbro pump was the correct pump, but they noticed two little bumps or something on it that don't seem to be on the other ones they have in the shop. So they notched out part of the rubber boot or something that it sits in to make sure it's sitting flat against it. Something like that anyway. And he used a clamp on some hoses instead of a tie thing. Either way it works now.
They set the load on the dyno to 500 which was explained as being as if the car is driving down hill and gave it about 70% throttle and the technosquare A/F was 12.5-12.1 with it starting to go up a little around 5000rpms. He didn't go to redline. This is without the emanage ultimate plugged in
He's going to drive it around for a bit to see if there's anything weird or leaks etc then call me to come pick it up this afternoon
still can't drive it hard though. I'll post my initial reactions to the car as soon as I get it back and do some driving.
Oh, and he did say he's already tightened the belt twice with as little as it's already been driven. My understanding is it'll have to be tightened a few times during break in with that Gates belt, then it's good to go for about 10k miles
Last edited by sentry65; 04-18-2006 at 10:29 AM.
04-18-2006, 10:33 AM
#135
I bought it from someone who's a vender on this site, but forgot - was kinda a group buy sorta
lots of people seem to sell them. I'm pretty sure CP racing or Altered Atmosphere sells them since they seem to do lots of vortech installs
lots of people seem to sell them. I'm pretty sure CP racing or Altered Atmosphere sells them since they seem to do lots of vortech installs
04-18-2006, 10:33 AM
#136
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Originally Posted by sentry65
update:
the fuel issue was fixed. The Walbro pump was the correct pump, but they noticed two little bumps or something on it that don't seem to be on the other ones they have in the shop. So they notched out part of the rubber boot or something that it sits in to make sure it's sitting flat against it. Something like that anyway. And he used a clamp on some hoses instead of a tie thing. Either way it works now.
They set the load on the dyno to 500 which was explained as being as if the car is driving down hill and gave it about 70% throttle and the technosquare A/F was 12.5-12.1 with it starting to go up a little around 5000rpms. He didn't go to redline. This is without the emanage ultimate plugged in
He's going to drive it around for a bit to see if there's anything weird or leaks etc then call me to come pick it up this afternoon
still can't drive it hard though. I'll post my initial reactions to the car as soon as I get it back and do some driving.
Oh, and he did say he's already tightened the belt twice with as little as it's already been driven. My understanding is it'll have to be tightened a few times during break in with that Gates belt, then it's good to go for about 10k miles
the fuel issue was fixed. The Walbro pump was the correct pump, but they noticed two little bumps or something on it that don't seem to be on the other ones they have in the shop. So they notched out part of the rubber boot or something that it sits in to make sure it's sitting flat against it. Something like that anyway. And he used a clamp on some hoses instead of a tie thing. Either way it works now.
They set the load on the dyno to 500 which was explained as being as if the car is driving down hill and gave it about 70% throttle and the technosquare A/F was 12.5-12.1 with it starting to go up a little around 5000rpms. He didn't go to redline. This is without the emanage ultimate plugged in
He's going to drive it around for a bit to see if there's anything weird or leaks etc then call me to come pick it up this afternoon
still can't drive it hard though. I'll post my initial reactions to the car as soon as I get it back and do some driving.
Oh, and he did say he's already tightened the belt twice with as little as it's already been driven. My understanding is it'll have to be tightened a few times during break in with that Gates belt, then it's good to go for about 10k miles
Sentry - I have to run to DynoCOmp this afternoon to drop off an actuator for Rob's Z that's being tuned Friday - what time are you thinking you'll be picking up the car - I can bring a decent camera for you this time
04-18-2006, 10:46 AM
#137
I really have no idea, Jon said he was going to drive it around, then drive it again when he goes to lunch then call me when he gets back if everything seems ok. I'm not sure when I can go to pick it up cause I have something I gotta do at work and am not sure what time it'll be at.
I'm kinda betting it'll be at the end of the day...
I'm kinda betting it'll be at the end of the day...
04-18-2006, 11:53 AM
#140
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Originally Posted by sentry65
no they come with a goodyear belt I think
instead of having straight grooves, it's more of a broken crosshatch pattern with grooves. And it's not as thick
they're definetly different
instead of having straight grooves, it's more of a broken crosshatch pattern with grooves. And it's not as thick
they're definetly different