Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

another thing is its easy to come up with 1000 dollars five times than it is to come up with 5000 once....



piece by piece might be easier

accordfreak

iTrader: (15)

bacalhau16- i am 100% with you on the idea of this turbo project. i've been planning out and collecting parts for my setup. Next step for me will be measuring all the bends i need then i will be ordering all the tubing and flanges necessary.

i know this isn't a vq but check out this diy v6 turbo camry. his project has inspired me even more to diy. such an awesome setup.
http://www.geocities.com/leunghomepage

I too on my last car, accord, was half a diy setup. It performed much better than any other premade kits out there. you get all the best parts

The people that tell you to not do it, don't listen. More props to you for doing a diy kit rather than paying someone thousands of dollars to install a kit and not knowing whats in your car. let me know on any updates on your project.

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

lol. don't listen? www.turbochargedsentra.com I was the first successful turbocharged QG18DE sentra in the country. The entire kit was DIY by me. I think I know a little bit about piecing kits together, and YOU CANNOT COMPARE AN INLINE MOTOR TO A V IN THESE TERMS!

Piping is difficult, twin setups are difficult due to manifolds and placement of turbos/clearance and placing where exhaust systems can make use is key, etc.

bacalhau16

iTrader: (32)

well this is especially true for me. it would be a lot easier to do it piece by piece, due to that i can spend about $2k at a time but cant seem to save up $5k.

chimmike, if you are so knowledgeable about diy turbo kits, then why would your first post be so negative putting down the whole thing. If you have put together some complicated kits before, then keep it coming with the info. Perhaps your extra knowledge could help us complete this in a more cost effective and timely manner.

bacalhau16

iTrader: (32)

alright, so while considering using a pair of e-bay header to create a manifold, i found these...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NISSA...66310872QQrdZ1

now, im not exactly happier with the seller on this item, because his description has dates on it from like last december and january on it and that worries me. but any way.

if you look at the picture of the header, i feel the most important part, is a clean collector of all the runners, and where they all meet at that spot would be the spot to weld the turbo adaptor flange to it. The only way of really knowing if it will have enough clearance is to buy them and do it now. So hopefully i can go talk to my friend about welding it up and i can really get underneath my car and take a good look at what i have to work with for clearances.

Also while brainstorming last night, i decided to go and look at an S4 and see how it is setup. I have a very good idea as to how its set-up, but i would really like to stop and see why its done like that. So i'm gonna go see my friend Russ and take a look at his car too.

Quamen

iTrader: (14)

Just go out and CNC some brackets and get the power steering and alternator relocated slightly with a custom belt and then have a tubular under brace made (the one that the engine mounts are on). Then you can make some log style headers and run them straight forward (after removing the A/C) like I did on my car and mount the turbo right up front. Minimized lag, easy intercooler piping setup (and short) and more room for a larger downpipe (prolly 3.5 inch if you make the cross brace right).

bacalhau16

iTrader: (32)

i guess i see what your saying. Seems pretty interesting, and obivously is a great idea, but im not sure how that would fit into my cost equation part of the kit.

i also would rather customize the turbo kit to the car, then to customize my car for a turbo kit, if that makes any sense.

Quamen

iTrader: (14)

That makes sense. however, if you ask me, realistically there is no real good way of making a single turbo kit other than to do it that way. No I am not saying there are different ways of doing it obviously and that they do not work will. I am just saying that based on ease of installation, less parts, shorter distance (less lag) far less clearance issues it just seems like the way to go if you are going all out.

Quamen

iTrader: (14)

i just wanted to clarify what I ment by clearance issues. First off if the headers are log style they do not really come out from the engine very much and if they come straight forward they will obviously not have problems with clearance on the sides of the engine bay. From there there is a ton of different locations for the turbo that would be up to the person doing the design.

bacalhau16

iTrader: (32)

wow, i looked at the pictures of your set-up and man thats once interesting set-up. I see the point and that would definitly reduce lag, due to the less amount of intercooler piping, but WHY and HOW!

So on your car did they make these new headers your suggesting for me? Or did they do it more like turbonetics and just have exhaust piping off of the headers meet at the turbo.

I also would like to know more about your cars setup, as to try and see what was wrong with it, and right with it, so perhaps we can improve from that.

bacalhau16

iTrader: (32)

i also wrote to a vendor of megan products, who also is a test car for them for some new products. I asked him if perhaps they would be interested in making some manifolds, and he said that if the interest was high enough that they may consider. He's pretty busy right now, but anyone perhaps interested?

Quamen

iTrader: (14)

Bacel- First off I don't think I would ever buy Megan products. I have seen a turbo manifold they made for the Miata crack within one week among some other bad products. In all honesty you would be better off finding a good fabrication shop that is looking to make some money as they will more than likely do a better job and will be about the same price.

As for my setup I removed the A/C so I had the driver side header come straight forward and then I had the passenger side header go backwards and loop downwards to come back forward. There are a number of things that I would do to improve this kit.

First, they used individual runners to a collector for the heads. This is expensive, time consuming and requires far more space than a log style manifold. The increased flow is questionable in my opinion. Like I said, moving which ever unit it is that is parrallel (forget if it is the PS or Alternator) to the exhaust ports would be the easiest solution. This way you could bring both manifolds straight forward. realistically for someone like me who can design brackets and the CNC programs to make them this would not be hard at all (IMO).

Now from this point there are a number of things to consider. First off. i would have everything jet hot coated and heat wrapped if I did it again and it would be made out of 304 stainless steel (more resistant to cracking). There would also be manifold support brackets (again no big deal to make) which would help resist cracking further. Depending on how much HP you are looking for would be the next determining factor as to downpipe solution. I personally would try for a 3.5". this may require a few other things such as solid engine mounts and or torque dampners to ensure it doesn't hit on the fender wall during hard acceleration. however it could require a custom under brace for the car. I am not sure as with the headers I had there was less clearance than with log style headers so who nows. I may have been able to fit 3.5" with no problem.

As for turbo location that is up to the maker. I personally would put it in a similar position to where I had it or where turbonetics has it.

Essentially, I wish I had not gone with NCR because with the people I know now I could have my setup for about $4k and it would be crazy and could put the other ST setups to shame.

Quamen

iTrader: (14)

Oh, I have nothing against megan. I just have gone cheap before and it was the worst thing I have ever done. So from my standpoint, with how complex our cars are you do not want to go cheap because it could cost you thousands. trust me. lol

bacalhau16

iTrader: (32)

See, this is exactly what im looking for. I know you have shared your ideas on the headers and having the turbo in the location of the turbonetics location, but if you feel you could put a kit together for $4k, help me out. Speak to me in a pm or share here if you want!

sq40

iTrader: (4)

You can get all of your "Ideas" from this page right here..

http://www.************************/350z/350z.htm

rabbid

iTrader: (8)

I do alot of custom piping and have been looking to protype a kit. Up swept front mount I say go for it don't let anyone tell you can't do something or you are dump to try because they can't do it them selves.

bacalhau16

iTrader: (32)

thanks rabbid, im really not too concerned with what other people have to say.

but sq40, im not sure what that was supposed to mean. Was that supposed to be funny, sarcastic, in any case, it sure wasnt helpful to this thread i presume.

sq40

iTrader: (4)

No, Actually it was supposed to be helpfull, I linked to the APS website but it looks like this forum has blocked the link. Their Site has dozens of pictures of how everything is routed for a TT setup.

Quamen

iTrader: (14)

Ok. So after doing some thinking this weekend I have come up with something even better in a few different ways.

First this is based on improving turbo location. I have been considering the cons of the single turbo kits out there and here is what I have come up with.

APS:
-Turbo is near the ground
-Requires a pump of some sort do to the vertical location of the turbo for the water that is used to cool it.
-Expensive
-snaking intercooler piping

Turbonetics:
-Turbo location is not that good for multiple reasons. It is on the driver side (I will explain that in a bit). and it uses snakey piping to the hot side (increased lag) and the intercooler piping could be more effecient.

Here is what I am thinking. Ultimately this could be done fairly easily if you are willing to give up your A/C as I have done.

-Single turbo setup.
-Remove the A/C compressor and simply make a new CNC'd bracket that allows you to move the alternator and power steering to the other side of the engine (would take some work but if you know the right person or have experience with CNC's you could do it for reletively cheap [$100]).
-Mount the single turbo on the passenger side at roughly the same height as a twin turbo would be mounted. However the turbo should be located in front of the engine so that the hot side turbine is about parrallel with the crank pulley or slightly further forward.
-Run both headers (log style) forward (this must also be taken into consideration when designing the bracket on the driver side but no biggy) and run the driver side tube across the engine to the passenger side and merge it with the passenger side header going directly downward into the hot side of the turbo.
-At this point you have the biggest benefit of the location. You would be able to fit a 3.5" downpipe from the turbo since the headers do not come downward and there is no steering spindle to go around. Also if the turbo is positioned correctly you could essentially have it a couple of inches from the intercooler.
-With the turbo located as so it would be nice in that you could use the holes for the stock alternator position to make a nice support bracket for the turbo in order to keep those nice 304 stainless steel headers from cracking.
-Filter would be a straight shot into the turbo
-This would require a radiator that is slightly narrow in horizontal width (custom made by Howe racing for $240 so not a big expense) and an intercooler that had a vertical flow to it similar to the APS but with the upper end tank pointed towards the driver side.
-This would also require a tubular front end which is easier to make and simpler than it sounds.

Granted I know that there are things that would need to be addressed other than what I have specified but those are the basics above as to what I would find to be the best setup for a DIY ST kit. Obviously I did not talk about wastegate among other things and if I did it I would make custom engine mounts for more clearance (solid as in getting rid of the piece that bolts to the actual engine and the cyclinder mounts that bolt to that bracket and making whole new ones). Also I would be able to CNC a heat shield right into the support mount for the turbo that would be really awsome.

atlsupdawg#2

I brainstormed this idea a while ago and what I was looking at was manufacturing 2 turbine inlet adpaters from 2.5" 45 degree weld els. These would bolt to the stock exhaust manifolds and in turn the turbo's to them. Depending on what wastegate set-up I would use (internal or external) would determine whether or not I needed to manufacture 2-1 merge adapters. With this set-up it would've dropped the turbo's close to the ground, roughly how SFR has theirs set up.

Fabricating the exhaust and inlet tubing would be a bit tricky but I figured the best way around that would be to fabricate it first out of PVC tubing. Once heated it's fairly easy to bend and when packed with play sand you can somewhat reproduce good mandrel bends. All flanges could be mocked up from wood using a good router and once finished you could test fit the whole set-up for clearance issues and what not. Once you're satisfied with the way everything fits together you could have all the tubing professionally mandrel bent at a muffler shop (if they have a mandrel bender) and the flanges machined. The bender tech should be able to accurately reproduce what you made from the pvc tubing.

Don't know if it's feasible or not but would make for a fun project.