They will fit fine.

 

Lol Alright jet hurry up man or else Ill have to post my dyno sheet before you. My motor should be done within the next week LAtest oct 3rd. I want to see what your gonna get to make sure japtrix and tune my car to make almost the same. I would love 450 or more with a smooth power band. Btw are you running the wastegate to atmosphere or recirculating it back into the exhaust???????

 

I have a custom 48mm Turbosmart Progate. It is custom mounted and dumps to the atmosphere. Do you have headers as well?

JET

 

I find that very hard to believe. They are the exact same design as Nismo and DC Sports headers and they both require downpipe modification. Anyone who says they "fit fine" probably didn't install the kit and see what was involved in making them work.

We've had people in the past contradict themselves by saying their headers "fit perfectly" and then come back later to state they had modified their downpipe to get them to work. Some of you may know what I'm referring to. At very least you have to hammer a dent in the side of the downpipe to get them to squeeze in there.

Who is installing these headers with the kit? I'd like to hear exactly what they had to do to get Alphaworks to fit in.

Trust me. You will definitely see more lag with headers installed.

 

I agree with taurran, my topspeed headers look EXACTLY the same and they didnt fit. If they do with no modification more power to ya. As for the lag, Im no expert but shouldnt more free flowing exhaust headers help spool?? I dont know I really am just wondering lol

 

You asked about fluid dynamics?..... If the header is the most restrictive link in the exhaust chain then moving to a larger diameter header will increase exhaust gas pressure through the header but decrease exhaust velocity. Bernoulis principle of fluid dynamics states any increase in dynamic fluid pressure is a decrease in velocity therefore slower spool up time.

HOWEVER..... if we raise the power of the engine we can regain velocity by moving a larger volume of exhaust gas at the same dynamic pressure as when we had the stock headers. Therefore we have a larger volume moving at the same velocity with aftermarket headers. Of course this is theoretical but that's what the physics tells us.

If you simply switch to a header and leave the power level status quo.... your turbo will spool up later.

JET

 

Right. Superheated exhaust gasses are more viscous than normal air, and are liquid like in their properties. Picture it as a faucet with a hose. If the faucet is set to omit a constant stream of water and you try a large hose and a smaller diameter hose, which one would you expect to move through the hose at a higher velocity?

But, I'm not sure at what threshold upgraded headers would be beneficial. Even at higher boost, going to a larger diameter header will delay spool over the stock manifolds unless they become the most restrictive part of the system. The problem is finding what diameter exhaust manifold or header will provide the best balance at higher boost levels. Too large, spool later needlessly, too small, create backpressure.

Due to the nature of the design of headers/manifolds, each runner doesn't have to be as large as a full exhaust due to the offset pulse of each cylender. The main problem is how they merge and if you're running it directly into piping that is matched up properly. With the headers and the stage 1 piping I believe this will be a problem.

My main concern is the fact that you've got to modify that downpipe to get headers to fit. I don't think it will be possible to do this even with alphawerks headers (they're the same as the others). What I have considered all along is rerouting a full 3"+ downpipe to run higher, over the top of the exhaust manfold area. Either, that, or find a shop that custom fabricates turbo manifolds and see if they will make one that fits and leaves more room for the drivers side downpipe.

In the end, at this point I'm prone to thinking the stock exhaust manifolds are fine for medium level boost, or else there is an even greater choke point in the system down the line. Take a look at whats his name (with the LS Z and custom Turbonetics ST setup) that was running headers on a modified downpipe at higher boost levels. His setup lagged like crazy.

I personally am going to wait this out and see what works best for other people. I've played guinea pig before and I prefer to wait and see what works. This means I will wait to see a true Turbonetics stage 2 kit with similiar built motors with both headers and without and then make my choice. Good luck to those that are experimenting.

 

JETPILOT your quote of the that theory is dead on. The increased diameter of te headers is causing a decrease in exhaust gas velocity even if the volume is increased. The problem is none of these aftermarket headers were designed with boost in mind. That being said it will take a significant R&D effort to determine at what power level or exhaust gas flow point these headers will actually add a benefit. The challenge and something that I wish some header company would under take (SFR...Tim!!!!) is to design headers that are better suited for F/I. With an optimal runner diameter to decrease backpressure but keep velocity constant. I'm wondering if the N/A headers he makes are the same diameter as the manifolds he makes for his twin turbo kit. I think using the manifolds from his twin turbo kit in a fashion that is suitable for the Turbonetics kit might yeild good results. Although this is just speculation at this point.

 

I'm hoping your wrong. Did I mention these headers were shipped to Japan where they were blessed by Shaoilin monks? So I got that going for me.

JET

 

+





=

 

Jet

 

nonetheless, good luck with what you're looking for Jet!

 

nice to see a built TN engine in the process...i should get mine out by friday and have some #s up by then...Z car garage here i come
swooooshhhhhhh

 

 

I think the biggest restriction is where both pipes mate up and head toward the turbo. the "y pipe" and the "uppipe" are tiny. I hope that TN is upsizing these pipes on the stage 2. This is just a guess, but a well thought out guess.

has anyone thought about some sort of way to redirect someof the exhaust gases from the passenger side into the exhaust system, rather than directed toward the turbo.

Once the turbo is fully spooled up, there is no need to send more gases to it as the piping gets restrictive.

 

hey guys ted actually was tuning the car today and said my t-60 was spooling up to 15 pounds!
i have 2 options
a
100 oct 15 lbs
91 oct 12 lbs
what do u guys think?
only downset is that its a everyday car so finding 100 oct ???that might be a prob

 

Why was it spooling to 15psi, and what is the problem? I'm assuming you have a boost controller installed, so why not get a map selector switch (if you're running the utec) and tune for both? Why would you need 100 octane if you're running a built motor, did you not upgrade your injectors and fuel system?

I guess your whole post confuses me. I don't see what the problem is.

 

hey taurran
i am not a car expert but thats wat he told me today
as far as I kno i have the larger injectors from the kit,etc...he is using the unichip????
thats all i know bro...but he actually said something about the reflash??i think he is using both is that possible??
i dunno i am confused
any help

 

If you're using the old unichip, you're going to run into the problem in that you can't tune for multiple maps (boost levels). This is one reason why most nowdays are going with the UTEC as engine management.

I was under the impression you had a built motor. Are you still running the 380cc injectors that came with the stage 1 kit? If so, you don't want to run any more than 9.5psi or you will run the risk of running out of fuel and running lean/detonating. Maybe that's why he's telling you to run 100 oct. I woudn't even bother upping the boost until you either upgrade your injectors or turbonetics releases their upgrade.

You can definitely have the turbonetics reflashed ECU and tune over it with a piggyback EMS.

 

I wish someone like MIA could give us more insight on the upcoming stage 2 from TN. They can't possibly only be upgrading the turbo and the flange on the uppipe.

They have to be doing more; otherwise, I have a feeling that you'll end up making 550 rwhp at 5300 rpm and then have the power drop off due to excessive backpressure.