APS single TUrbo? yes or no
10-17-2006, 04:46 PM
#81
I agree that the greddy TT is probably the best tuner oriented TT kit out there for the Z with the most knowledge and experience with big numbers running with them. The sky is the limit with that kit.
The JWT and APS are different and appeal to slightly different needs. To me, the JWT is more about instant power with less lag, the ultimate street TT kit for daily driving and very responsive on the track.
The APS seems to be more of a 'set it and forget it' kit and is well rounded using high quality parts.
The greddy is the big power kit. It spools up a little later with slightly more lag and will knock your head off when it hits. It also removes your bumper brace, need a built engine to deal with how brutal the boost is otherwise you're stuck using around 5 or less PSI on a stock block if you want it to live - unless you buy more fuel system parts etc
The greddy kit seems to be for people who want the ultimate power numbers, the ultimate 1/4 mile times, or the ultimate street power and are willing to pay for it.
it's a nice kit, but they all are for the people who they appeal to
then there's the PE kit which no one seems to buy anymore...
The JWT and APS are different and appeal to slightly different needs. To me, the JWT is more about instant power with less lag, the ultimate street TT kit for daily driving and very responsive on the track.
The APS seems to be more of a 'set it and forget it' kit and is well rounded using high quality parts.
The greddy is the big power kit. It spools up a little later with slightly more lag and will knock your head off when it hits. It also removes your bumper brace, need a built engine to deal with how brutal the boost is otherwise you're stuck using around 5 or less PSI on a stock block if you want it to live - unless you buy more fuel system parts etc
The greddy kit seems to be for people who want the ultimate power numbers, the ultimate 1/4 mile times, or the ultimate street power and are willing to pay for it.
it's a nice kit, but they all are for the people who they appeal to
then there's the PE kit which no one seems to buy anymore...
Last edited by sentry65; 10-17-2006 at 04:49 PM.
10-17-2006, 04:50 PM
#82
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Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
Not attitude my child
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
I'm done with this conversation, as I can find better things to do with my time (perhaps beat my head on a brick wall).
Trust me, you DO have that reputation whether you like it or not. The trail of ruined off topic threads which you leave behind can attest to that. Everything that needs to be said in this dead horse of a thead has already been said, repeatedly.
I, on the other hand, have no personal financial stake in arguing at all hours of the night at no end in attempt to get in a last childish jab like your above post.
So, that being said, get yours in (as you surely will). DONE.
10-17-2006, 04:52 PM
#83
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Originally Posted by sentry65
I agree that the greddy TT is probably the best tuner oriented TT kit out there for the Z with the most knowledge and experience with big numbers running with them. The sky is the limit with that kit.
The JWT and APS are different and appeal to slightly different needs. To me, the JWT is more about instant power with less lag, the ultimate street TT kit for daily driving and very responsive on the track.
The APS seems to be more of a 'set it and forget it' kit and is well rounded using high quality parts.
The greddy is the big power kit. It spools up a little later with slightly more lag and will knock your head off when it hits. It also removes your bumper brace, need a built engine to deal with how brutal the boost is otherwise you're stuck using 5 or less PSI on a stock block.
This kit seems to be for people who want the ultimate power numbers, the ultimate 1/4 mile times, or the ultimate street power and are willing to pay for it.
it's a nice kit, but they all are for the people who they appeal to
then there's the PE kit which no one seems to buy anymore
The JWT and APS are different and appeal to slightly different needs. To me, the JWT is more about instant power with less lag, the ultimate street TT kit for daily driving and very responsive on the track.
The APS seems to be more of a 'set it and forget it' kit and is well rounded using high quality parts.
The greddy is the big power kit. It spools up a little later with slightly more lag and will knock your head off when it hits. It also removes your bumper brace, need a built engine to deal with how brutal the boost is otherwise you're stuck using 5 or less PSI on a stock block.
This kit seems to be for people who want the ultimate power numbers, the ultimate 1/4 mile times, or the ultimate street power and are willing to pay for it.
it's a nice kit, but they all are for the people who they appeal to
then there's the PE kit which no one seems to buy anymore
What gets me is 90% of the poeople that do their online reviews of turbo kits , have never driven all of the turbo kits they are criticizing..I personally have drive every form of F/I on the Z/G with JWT being the exception, and can say the Greddy or APS TT are very similar in performance.
The similarities of the APS ST and The TN kit are very close also..It all boils down to the customer and their goals and needs...If a 500+ whp build is in their future, go for the Twins..
...I wish I would of went with the APS TT tuner kit.
10-17-2006, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Nismo350ZRT
Personally, I could give sh*t what somebody thinks about my turbo kit. The only thing that matters is that I'm enjoying it.
Best post of the whole thread there, for real.
10-17-2006, 07:06 PM
#88
I read the posts in here and I don't think any current APS ST owners replied...
It's funny how nay sayers go ape$hit on a kit they never bought, installed nor driven a car with the kit in it...
My Z is a daily driver. On weekends I drag and do high speed runs (160mph.. I live in South Korea.. There's virtually no cops on highways.) I also take it to circuits once in a while...
I wanted a kit that is as close to complete and reliable. I just wanted to get it done all at once.
I'm not trying to start another flaming war.. (I'm in TN's territory, so I'm sure I'll get flamed..) I just want to state what I thought about the TN kit when I was in the market to buy ST kit.
I seriously considered TN initially. I heard their customer service was excellent... and d@mn that polished turbo right next to the engine is pretty!!! but excellent customer service isn't going to replace my engine once it blows up... So, I dug deeper into parts list...
I wasn't too sure about their ecu reflash deal. I mean.. people live in different weather, driving conditions and their cars have different setups and such...So it didn't make sense to me one ecu reflash would apply for everyone... It wasn't a difficult choice to make between the ecu reflash and the unichip piggyback with boost feedback.
Also, the fuel management... although APS fuel return system is a very primitive minimalistic setup, it gets the job done in a right way... I know many TN owners will say stock fuel system is plenty good enough for 400whp application, but what's wrong with extra insurance? As a daily driven Z, I needed the assurance that the fuel will be there in full pressure no matter what boost level I was in... Some of you will say get TN kit with AAM fuel return kit. But d@mn that AAM fuel return kit is $$$$$. Turbo kit and the installation is expensive enough...
I wasn't too fond of drilling a hole on a engine block for the oil return line. Now days people buy oil pan spacers for it, but that's another part I have to buy separately!! APS ST kit had so much better option... a whole new finned oil pan with holes already on it...
I have a nose heavy car phobia!!! I used to have a 95 Mustang GT convertible 10 years ago. Boy, this thing would nose dive so much during hard braking, I swear rear tires were lifing up from the ground... Then I had a Toyota Solara V6... Also nose heavy being a front wheel drive.. I was seriously scared to brake hard in it, since I already spun the car around few times during the hard braking So, I wasn't too happy about placing all the heavy turbo parts in front.
I guess that's about it....
TN owners put down APS ST, but look at the new TN kit that's coming out soon. No more ecu reflash.. TN is going with unichip Q. Also a fuel return system... Looks like TN kit parts list is becoming similar to APS ST parts list...
Usually, people with problem speaks out louder than those with no problem at all, and this forum is a very good example of this. So, do your study and select the kit that's right for you. You are a college student, so I assume you are on a tight budget and don't have all the time you need to scavenge parts separately and install them as they arrive...
It's funny how nay sayers go ape$hit on a kit they never bought, installed nor driven a car with the kit in it...
My Z is a daily driver. On weekends I drag and do high speed runs (160mph.. I live in South Korea.. There's virtually no cops on highways.) I also take it to circuits once in a while...
I wanted a kit that is as close to complete and reliable. I just wanted to get it done all at once.
I'm not trying to start another flaming war.. (I'm in TN's territory, so I'm sure I'll get flamed..) I just want to state what I thought about the TN kit when I was in the market to buy ST kit.
I seriously considered TN initially. I heard their customer service was excellent... and d@mn that polished turbo right next to the engine is pretty!!! but excellent customer service isn't going to replace my engine once it blows up... So, I dug deeper into parts list...
I wasn't too sure about their ecu reflash deal. I mean.. people live in different weather, driving conditions and their cars have different setups and such...So it didn't make sense to me one ecu reflash would apply for everyone... It wasn't a difficult choice to make between the ecu reflash and the unichip piggyback with boost feedback.
Also, the fuel management... although APS fuel return system is a very primitive minimalistic setup, it gets the job done in a right way... I know many TN owners will say stock fuel system is plenty good enough for 400whp application, but what's wrong with extra insurance? As a daily driven Z, I needed the assurance that the fuel will be there in full pressure no matter what boost level I was in... Some of you will say get TN kit with AAM fuel return kit. But d@mn that AAM fuel return kit is $$$$$. Turbo kit and the installation is expensive enough...
I wasn't too fond of drilling a hole on a engine block for the oil return line. Now days people buy oil pan spacers for it, but that's another part I have to buy separately!! APS ST kit had so much better option... a whole new finned oil pan with holes already on it...
I have a nose heavy car phobia!!! I used to have a 95 Mustang GT convertible 10 years ago. Boy, this thing would nose dive so much during hard braking, I swear rear tires were lifing up from the ground... Then I had a Toyota Solara V6... Also nose heavy being a front wheel drive.. I was seriously scared to brake hard in it, since I already spun the car around few times during the hard braking So, I wasn't too happy about placing all the heavy turbo parts in front.
I guess that's about it....
TN owners put down APS ST, but look at the new TN kit that's coming out soon. No more ecu reflash.. TN is going with unichip Q. Also a fuel return system... Looks like TN kit parts list is becoming similar to APS ST parts list...
Usually, people with problem speaks out louder than those with no problem at all, and this forum is a very good example of this. So, do your study and select the kit that's right for you. You are a college student, so I assume you are on a tight budget and don't have all the time you need to scavenge parts separately and install them as they arrive...
Last edited by leeboyNY; 10-17-2006 at 07:08 PM.
10-17-2006, 07:36 PM
#90
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Originally Posted by leeboyNY
TN owners put down APS ST, but look at the new TN kit that's coming out soon.
Originally Posted by leeboyNY
No more ecu reflash.. TN is going with unichip Q. Also a fuel return system... Looks like TN kit parts list is becoming similar to APS ST parts list...
Take a step back and don't look at it like a TN vs APS thing for a moment and look at it strictly from a marketing standpoint.
The stage 1.5 and 2 upgrade kits are simply response to the consumer. As I previously noted, the 350z at large has been on this whole "completeness" binge that was artificially started by other companies marketing. The stage 1.5 kit is simply cashing in on that part of the market. They offered a tuner kit in the past for those who wanted to build a "complete" kit from the start.
That hasn't been enough for the consumer, people want a box that says Turbonetics that has all of the components they desire. The market is there, so they are supplying the consumer with more options. There will soon be an option for a bare bones tuner kit, the stage 1 kit for a low cost FI setup, the stage 1.5 kit that contains a fully tunable setup for a stock block, and a stage 2 setup for higher power on a built block.
I say again that this has absolutely nothing to do with them "trying to be like APS", or "admitting their setup doesn't work". That's ridiculous because we know it does work. It's all about giving the customer what they want and making money.
10-17-2006, 07:44 PM
#91
I really like all the major FI manufacturers
the only ones I haven't been super impressed with on strictly a company basis is ATI and Greddy.
ATI because they don't seem to really care much about their SC for the Z, maybe because sales haven't been so hot.
Greddy IMO has always released buggy things. The emanage and emanage ultimate have less than impressed me with how buggy the products are and how slow they are to update them and still not have their promissed features implemented. Their documentation is often wrong too
When the greddy kit was blowing engines up left and right, I never really heard much about greddy stepping up to the plate and trying to figure out why exactly their kit @ 6 psi would blow engines so much. I could be wrong, but I always got the impression that they made the kit then that was that. Leave it up to the consumer to troubleshoot things and build the engine.
I'm probably wrong and am sure someone will tell me some specific success story about either of them, but that's my impression
the only ones I haven't been super impressed with on strictly a company basis is ATI and Greddy.
ATI because they don't seem to really care much about their SC for the Z, maybe because sales haven't been so hot.
Greddy IMO has always released buggy things. The emanage and emanage ultimate have less than impressed me with how buggy the products are and how slow they are to update them and still not have their promissed features implemented. Their documentation is often wrong too
When the greddy kit was blowing engines up left and right, I never really heard much about greddy stepping up to the plate and trying to figure out why exactly their kit @ 6 psi would blow engines so much. I could be wrong, but I always got the impression that they made the kit then that was that. Leave it up to the consumer to troubleshoot things and build the engine.
I'm probably wrong and am sure someone will tell me some specific success story about either of them, but that's my impression
Last edited by sentry65; 10-17-2006 at 07:48 PM.
10-17-2006, 08:06 PM
#93
My opinions on twins: I love the Greddy kit since so far it has proven to me to be the easiest to service on the vehicle, and it doesnt need any BS parts replaced. I was able to turn up the boost as I added more parts to my engine, and without changing a THING on the turbo kit, I turned it up to 573rwhp. I dont know of any other kit that versatile. I can also turn the boost controller off and the car runs 6psi or so and its still fast as hell compared to most cars on the road.
Also, I prefer lightweight and quick to shed heat aluminum piping, and it doesnt come with any half *** parts that need to be thrown out. YEA you need to add some things to make it safe, which is cool, cause you end up with an even nicer setup when your done, and spend about the same.
Greddy has proven to me to offer perfect customer service, as I had one part that needed to be replaced after running the kit for TWO AND A HALF YEARS. I didnt buy my kit directly from Greddy either. But all I did was call Greddy USA (they actually HAVE a USA division, two large buildings on opposite ends of the country). I told them what I needed, and with very little motivation required by me... they OVERNIGHTED ME A FREE REPLACEMENT PART. Not what you would call a little crummy part that needed to be replaced either. I was amazed to get such a significant part for no cost and no question, all I had to pay was the difference between standard shipping and overnight.
So I dont have a single complaint with the Greddy kit. Like most things, its what YOU and the INSTALLER make of it. Put it on crummy, and its gonna blow your engine like anything else.
With all that said, if i was still building cars for customers, I would be pushing the JWT kit for the moment. Reason being: Havent heard any serious complaints about it yet, and I trust JWT to handle anything appropriately if it were to arrise, as they are a fantastic company to work with. Second of all, they are fully AMERICAN based company. Unless there is a quality issue with the american component, I will go USA every time. I dont think I have to elaborate on that.
As for the PE Kit. Well, now that they are using cast iron manifolds - it might be something worth looking into now. I dont know much about what it costs tho, since I never looked into it... as I wouldn't have installed the kit before they moved to a cast manifold.
Also, I prefer lightweight and quick to shed heat aluminum piping, and it doesnt come with any half *** parts that need to be thrown out. YEA you need to add some things to make it safe, which is cool, cause you end up with an even nicer setup when your done, and spend about the same.
Greddy has proven to me to offer perfect customer service, as I had one part that needed to be replaced after running the kit for TWO AND A HALF YEARS. I didnt buy my kit directly from Greddy either. But all I did was call Greddy USA (they actually HAVE a USA division, two large buildings on opposite ends of the country). I told them what I needed, and with very little motivation required by me... they OVERNIGHTED ME A FREE REPLACEMENT PART. Not what you would call a little crummy part that needed to be replaced either. I was amazed to get such a significant part for no cost and no question, all I had to pay was the difference between standard shipping and overnight.
So I dont have a single complaint with the Greddy kit. Like most things, its what YOU and the INSTALLER make of it. Put it on crummy, and its gonna blow your engine like anything else.
With all that said, if i was still building cars for customers, I would be pushing the JWT kit for the moment. Reason being: Havent heard any serious complaints about it yet, and I trust JWT to handle anything appropriately if it were to arrise, as they are a fantastic company to work with. Second of all, they are fully AMERICAN based company. Unless there is a quality issue with the american component, I will go USA every time. I dont think I have to elaborate on that.
As for the PE Kit. Well, now that they are using cast iron manifolds - it might be something worth looking into now. I dont know much about what it costs tho, since I never looked into it... as I wouldn't have installed the kit before they moved to a cast manifold.
Last edited by phunk; 10-18-2006 at 07:13 PM.
10-17-2006, 08:26 PM
#94
Originally Posted by taurran
I've gotta put in my 2 cents about this. In my experience, it is usually the not the Turbonetics owners putting down the APS kit, it is the Turbonetics owners reacting to APS owners calling the Turbonetics kit "inferior", or continuing to repeat the negative rhetoric that has been spread about these forums and others.
This isn't because they realize they have made any sort of "error" in the stage 1 kit. Of course, as someone who has no insight into what goes on at Turbonetics you see it as them trying to correct something. You couldn't be more wrong.
Take a step back and don't look at it like a TN vs APS thing for a moment and look at it strictly from a marketing standpoint.
The stage 1.5 and 2 upgrade kits are simply response to the consumer. As I previously noted, the 350z at large has been on this whole "completeness" binge that was artificially started by other companies marketing. The stage 1.5 kit is simply cashing in on that part of the market. They offered a tuner kit in the past for those who wanted to build a "complete" kit from the start.
That hasn't been enough for the consumer, people want a box that says Turbonetics that has all of the components they desire. The market is there, so they are supplying the consumer with more options. There will soon be an option for a bare bones tuner kit, the stage 1 kit for a low cost FI setup, the stage 1.5 kit that contains a fully tunable setup for a stock block, and a stage 2 setup for higher power on a built block.
I say again that this has absolutely nothing to do with them "trying to be like APS", or "admitting their setup doesn't work". That's ridiculous because we know it does work. It's all about giving the customer what they want and making money.
This isn't because they realize they have made any sort of "error" in the stage 1 kit. Of course, as someone who has no insight into what goes on at Turbonetics you see it as them trying to correct something. You couldn't be more wrong.
Take a step back and don't look at it like a TN vs APS thing for a moment and look at it strictly from a marketing standpoint.
The stage 1.5 and 2 upgrade kits are simply response to the consumer. As I previously noted, the 350z at large has been on this whole "completeness" binge that was artificially started by other companies marketing. The stage 1.5 kit is simply cashing in on that part of the market. They offered a tuner kit in the past for those who wanted to build a "complete" kit from the start.
That hasn't been enough for the consumer, people want a box that says Turbonetics that has all of the components they desire. The market is there, so they are supplying the consumer with more options. There will soon be an option for a bare bones tuner kit, the stage 1 kit for a low cost FI setup, the stage 1.5 kit that contains a fully tunable setup for a stock block, and a stage 2 setup for higher power on a built block.
I say again that this has absolutely nothing to do with them "trying to be like APS", or "admitting their setup doesn't work". That's ridiculous because we know it does work. It's all about giving the customer what they want and making money.
Last edited by leeboyNY; 10-17-2006 at 08:28 PM.
10-17-2006, 08:37 PM
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I think another big difference missed here also is the scavenger pump on the aps.That never sat well with me either and I know nsx guys that this has caused problems down the road. GRD for customer service? Keep calling aps LOL. After my wreck and i needed a new IC I never even got a return phone call for a damn price. Glad to be rid of it at the insurance companies expense.
10-17-2006, 08:49 PM
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No need to get into this here, but there are always two sides of the story. As far as GRD goes, I have no problems with call backs or answers to emails. Matter of fact, after my car was tuned, GRD called me out of the blue to check on me and to make sure everything was cool.
Originally Posted by wtf no turbo
I think another big difference missed here also is the scavenger pump on the aps.That never sat well with me either and I know nsx guys that this has caused problems down the road. GRD for customer service? Keep calling aps LOL. After my wreck and i needed a new IC I never even got a return phone call for a damn price. Glad to be rid of it at the insurance companies expense.
10-18-2006, 05:00 AM
#97
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Aps makes a nice kit for the money. sure you can mix and match parts to make any kit better. even though i will ultimately go with a greddy tt kit(which is the recomendation of my installer),the aps st kit, proprely installed, is a great kit. i could just throw in a built short block and up the boost, but 600whp is in the cards and i know this turbo will never see that.
10-18-2006, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by wtf no turbo
I think another big difference missed here also is the scavenger pump on the aps.That never sat well with me either and I know nsx guys that this has caused problems down the road. GRD for customer service? Keep calling aps LOL. After my wreck and i needed a new IC I never even got a return phone call for a damn price. Glad to be rid of it at the insurance companies expense.
10-18-2006, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
Actually if you drove all 3 kits back to back in the same state of tune, there would be little to no noticiable difference..All this talk, about how the JWT spools up so fast, bla blah blah...Mt APS kit makes full boost at 3200 rpms where I am at well over 550 TQ at that point..The Greddy kit does basically the same thing..
uh, I disagree. The APS and JWT may spool quickly. I'm pretty damn sure the JWT spools the fastest. However you can't honestly say that the Greddy spools as fast as either of those kits, because it just doesn't happen, not with the journal bearing 18g turbos, and that's a fact.
Shoot, I ran a greddy TT car and I would hit full boost before he did, while he ran 11psi to my 8.