widebody350

iTrader: (1)

After doing some research the people with the front clip didn't sound too trustworthy so I am not going to take any chances. I have talked to P1 Performance and they are willing to do go for a sponsorship for my car. They are checking right now when they can get me one or if one of their orders right now falls through/backs out then I will get one ASAP. $4,200 for the RB26DETT engine and RB25 tranny is a good deal.

Zexy

iTrader: (55)

Yep.. I've searched around yahoo before and definately remember reading negative reviews from jazz. I cannot find where i read it anymore though.

IMO you should order from where i ordered, Jarco Inc, or RB motoring. There are way too many companies who are scam artists and/or will send you a **** motor.

002-M-P

iTrader: (12)

If you don't mind me asking, what is the general going price for a RB26 w/ uncut harness from these places? Also, did you get a r32 or r33 motor?

widebody350

iTrader: (1)

I'm seeing a lot of $3500-$4500.

Zexy

iTrader: (55)

00-2-MP, widebody 350 just answered your question.


Most of the motors will be R32. R33 and especially R34 are rare and you're going to pay thousands more.

BamBam

iTrader: (4)

Alright Ian, you sparked my interest (along with Zexy and a few choice others..) I will be following this closely in the next month or so... ;-)

002-M-P

iTrader: (12)

Damn how many of us are doing this now?

Zexy

iTrader: (55)

More people than are on this thread. I'll let you know that for sure


JE still insists me to be patient on the mount kit so right now i'm focusing on my motor at the machine shop, and buying the few parts i need left to finish it off.

Me and Brent and a few others met up this past weekend at OSW to discuss what's involved. Depending on the status of his motor and the frustration he may follow along

002-M-P

iTrader: (12)

Awesome...since all of us that have been talking (at least the ones that I am aware of) are pretty much on the East coast we need to have a small RB-powered Z get together once everyone has got there stuff together next summer.

On a side note just so everyone knows. I am going to be weighing my Z as it sits before I tear it apart....then weighing it again after the swap without changing anything but the motor and wiring stuff, so we have some true data about weight distribution and total weigh changes. My car is pretty much so stripped out inside with racing seats, so it is already pretty front heavy, but still will be a good comparison...at least for me.

wtf no turbo

iTrader: (6)

Are you planning on running stock ecu for other functions or dropping everything? Have to really look at fabrication needed. I know there is a shop local to me that was in the process of doing a swap I will have to follow up with them and see how it went. I have bigger race plans for the future though and I think vq part prices will drop considerably and be easier to come by then 26s down the road.

BamBam

iTrader: (4)

Yea, I'm looking at my options. I am sure it will take a lot more effort to do things this way, but based on my power goals, I think it will be less hassle in the long run with the RB. I need to do more research on availability of parts and the wiring to be sure it can still be streetable & reliable considering the amount of long trips I make with the car.

wtf: My understanding is you keep the factory ECU to run the windows, ABS and such, while the RB harness will work the engine functions. Of course an independent EMS can also interface to the RB harness and allow for increasing boost and C18 race maps. But again, this is only what I have heard. I am sure Widebody/ Zexy/ or 002-M-P can answer this with more detail as I am just starting to get interested in this idea.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

I would cry if you ditched the VQ after all the $$$/time spent I can understand if you wanted to throw a stock, stout RB in and keep power levels "reasonable"...

BamBam

iTrader: (4)

Berto, I am just getting really tired of putting good money after bad on this engine. My patience is wearing VERY thin and my wallet has been drained trying to do something that will be much easier to achieve on a different engine platform.
Obviously it would have been better to do this first and save myself the last year of problems, but lessons learned maybe..? I don't know, but to-date I have spent WAY TOO MUCH then could possibly be expected on an engine that does not run nor seem capable of what I want it to do.
Crap, I could have bought another Z for the total amount of $$$$$ I have spent to bring this engine back to life…

Anyway enough OT posting. I will probably be looking to you guys for more info in the coming weeks before I make any drastic decisions.
--B

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

I've been thinking about the ECU and EMS situation a bit more in the past week. Since the AEM EMS is a direct replacement for the RB26 ECU simply adding the RB26 wiring harness to the car should allow the car to start and run. A couple of things that will need to be done though are the throttle. You will need to convert the current drive by wire setup to a true cabled setup as the RB doesnt have drive by wire in it. This means a little fabrication on the firewall and pedal side of things but nothing that hasn't been done before. The big work I see is getting the rest of the car to work properlly. If you leave the stock ECU in it will control everything like the windows, locks, lights, etc. My concern comes from the NATS module. Its the security module of the car. The issue I see is that if the stock ECU gets a start signal and key signal from a key that is not coded to it it shuts off after a few seconds. I'm fairly certain though what you'll need to do is tap the start signal from the stock module under the dash to the RB starter/ECU harness to get the car to turn over. What I'm not sure of is how that will work with the AEM EMS. Should work just fine as its simply looking for the correct key in, on, start signal. as long as those signals are the same for the RB (should be) no issues there. The stock ECU will see the right key and not go into lockdown. Next is the gauge readouts. For this to be a truely OEM/effective like swap you really should keep the gauges working. To do this you need the correct signals to the stock ECU to replicate the engine speed, vehicle speed, etc signals. Additionally if you want to keep the oil pressure, volts, and water temp gauges functional you'll need signal for those. The issue I'm seeing is that no aftermarket EMS (and you really should use one for this) has PWM output signals that I can see. It looks they are all switched or on/off functions. Heres the quote from AEM Based on that data you won't be able to use variable voltage outputs based on input signals. This means you'll need to find out what the output signal for each of these items is on the RB and convert it to the appropriate signal required by the stock 350Z ECU. Some of it should be easy. I can't imagine the coolant temp sensor on the RB reads drastically different then the one on the VQ. Ditto for oil pressure. Volts is almost a lock. These you can tap into from the RB wiring harness and port them directly to the stock ECU harness if the voltage range and signal type are the same. What I am most worried about is the engine and vehicle speed functions. The VQ crank trigger is most likely quite different from that of the RB. The signal itself might or might not be different but I'm thinking it is. If so you are going to need a way to conver that signal to the needed signal for the VQ ECU. I don't think any work needs to be done in regards to vehicle speed as I believe the VQ ECU is pulling its speed signal from the wheels themselves as part of the VDC module. If so than the Speedo should work fine. Another thing I thought of in regards to the coolant and other signals is that you could have both sensors running. You could use two oil pressure sensors via a tee for both ECUs to pick up the oil pressure. Ditto for coolant. Fuel level should be no issues as the sensor for that is on the pump and the stock ECU will read that as before. Your mpg readings and stuff will of course not work at all but who cares. What it boils down to is just the tach. I don't know if anyone has scoped the tach signal for our car yet. I'm fairly certain the RB has been scoped. Absolutely worst case scenario you could install a pick up sensor on the crank pulley to measure engine speed in the type of signal and frequency the VQ ECU is looking for. Its done in the Haltech world quite a bit. That is of course unless you can use the 350Z trans with the RB as the Crank Position Sensor is in the trans bell housing (unless I'm way off on this one thats where the ECU pulls engine speed in addition to the cam position sensors). Even with all this done you are likely still going to get some CELs as the VQ ECU will not be getting all the feedback it should from the motor. For isntance it will see the engine speed increase while the TPS signal remains zero. As long as none of the feedback signals are required for the ECU to run everything it should be fine. Might want to pull the voltage from CEL light though cause its never going to help you again anyways. Well thats enough for one post I guess.

Zexy

iTrader: (55)

I don't know much about wiring.. But.

Keeping the VQ ECU? Are you serious MIAPLAYA?

You don't need it to keep light, window, AC functions, etc. From the research that i've done depending on the wiring all comfort functions can be kept on the car. Keeping the VQ signal and converting everything doesn't make the project worth it anymore IMO . It's a stupid thing to TRY to do. Wayyyy to complicated.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

I don't see how all the comfort functions are going to be kept. The BCM (body control module) which handles the AC (which you likely won't have anymore) windows, locks, key fob inputs, hazards, dash, etc all runs off the CAN bus provided by the stock VQ ECU. No VQ ECU no creature comforts unless you hardware every switch and signal needed. Trust me hard wiring the locks, windows, trunk poppers, AC (if you have it), dash, etc is WAY more trouble then leaving the stock ECU in there. Realize of course the stock ECu will have ZERO control of the motor. At best it will only be getting the signals it needs to make the factory gauges work. Attempting hard wire all the stuff would take decades (not really but it would take a LONG time). Not to mention that if the stock ECU isn't there and the stock gauges aren't there you basically have to replace the entire dash (gauge wise) with stand alone gauges. That means wiring up a tach, speedo, fuel level gauge, oil pressure gauge, and water temp gauge at the least. Thats at least another 2-3 days Trust me keeping the stock ECU on board for these things is a LOT more time and cost effective. Thats exactly how the HKS Fcon V Pro and Magnetti Marielli ECUs do things (even though they are also stand alones). They do it for the same reason. And thats WITH the VQ still in the car...

Zexy

iTrader: (55)

Definately going to look into this some more. JE perf. managed to keep the car with excellent street drivability. Will keep you guys updated tomorrow.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

If they didn't keep the stock ECU JUST for the body control functions I would be surprised. Like I was saying the CAN bus driven system in the Z means no ECU no creature comforts or dash unless you hard wire and replace every gauge. WAY more work than potentially converting one signal for the tach and modifying the signal for the other gauges or running dual sensors...

S12 driver

I don't know nearly enough to be discussing this but, why couldn't you run UTEC on this? UTEC can take over engine control from above 1000rpm right? So just set the idle speed to 1100rpm (for example) and let UTEC run the RB all the time. Would that work?

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Yes and no... The UTEC is still only running certain aspects of the motor and for its load readings its going to try and read the inputs from the Crank Position sensors, TPS signal, etc to figure out what settings to apply. Only problem is those signals don't exist anymore on the VQ ECU harness as the VQ is gone. The engine speed sensor on the RB is most likely different and there is no DBW. TPS may still be the same but like I said the UTEC is looking for VQ specific signals to work that aren't going to be on the VQ harness anymore... I guess you could potentially pull the signals from the RB motor and feed them to the VQ harness but I just don't think its going to be effective or work.... If you are going to spend this amount of money and time for an RB swap I wouldn't try to skimp on the EMS anyways. The UTEC is a good idea but I don't think theres enough control on it to make it work. Besides how are you going to set the idle with no RB ECU in the car to control it and the VQ ECU not being able to set any parameters for the RB?