*** JWT BB530's and BB700's side by side ***
11-15-2006, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 1G-350Z
You are right... I'm pretty sure Jim has only two bolt on options, Of course with a little fab work you can bolt on other turbos... I had a couple of ideas, not really worth it... If you want to go the next level 1000whp+ I would not use a kit... We would do more of a custom set up...
PS As far as how far we are pushing it... We will keep you updated... I'd rather let the dyno speak...
PS As far as how far we are pushing it... We will keep you updated... I'd rather let the dyno speak...
11-15-2006, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
Meh a custom setup would be cool but theres no reason to go all custom if everything else can flow enough for that amount of power. Then again I have no idea what the flow rate of the intercooler or hot side piping is...
I'll probably be happy with my 530's @ 14psi on a 9.5 compression motor...Not sure what the effeciancy is on the JWT Twin-IC...
11-15-2006, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 1G-350Z
It depends how fast you want to go... I'll probably be happy with my 530's @ 14psi on a 9.5 compression motor...
Not sure what the effeciancy is on the JWT Twin-IC...
I'll probably be happy with my 530's @ 14psi on a 9.5 compression motor...Not sure what the effeciancy is on the JWT Twin-IC...
11-15-2006, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
I'm sure you have. I'm telling you that the efficiency island ends at ~36-37 lb/min of flow. Which is 720-740 Crank HP roughly. How far are you pushing these turbos exacty? JWT does make a BB600 and of course a GT30 also that should work.
If the "efficiency island 36-37 lb/min of flow;" which I assume you're referencing the JWR BB700's; and 720-740 Crank HP with what block? As I would think that it is the "max it can flow" + optimization efficiency capability of the engine = whp/hp; and not only just the "efficiency island" of the compressor that generates the hp.
G
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Last edited by 350Zzzz; 11-15-2006 at 08:55 PM.
11-15-2006, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 350Zzzz
"720-740 Crank HP" what sort of VQ35DE block would you be making that association with; assuming that it is the VQ that you're referring to?
If the "efficiency island 36-37 lb/min of flow;" which I assume you're referencing the JWR BB700's; and 720-740 Crank HP with what block?
G
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If the "efficiency island 36-37 lb/min of flow;" which I assume you're referencing the JWR BB700's; and 720-740 Crank HP with what block?
G
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11-15-2006, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by JDMFairlady21
Wow it looks completely diff in pics Rob, really shows the big differences...
let me also confirm that these need new manifolds.
G i will have vid of it on the dyno soon as we get on it! =)
let me also confirm that these need new manifolds.
G i will have vid of it on the dyno soon as we get on it! =)
11-15-2006, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 350Zzzz
"720-740 Crank HP" what sort of VQ35DE block would you be making that association with; assuming that it is the VQ that you're referring to?
If the "efficiency island 36-37 lb/min of flow;" which I assume you're referencing the JWR BB700's; and 720-740 Crank HP with what block? As I would think that it is the "max it can flow" + optimization efficiency capability of the engine = whp/hp; and not only just the "efficiency island" of the compressor that generates the hp.
G
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If the "efficiency island 36-37 lb/min of flow;" which I assume you're referencing the JWR BB700's; and 720-740 Crank HP with what block? As I would think that it is the "max it can flow" + optimization efficiency capability of the engine = whp/hp; and not only just the "efficiency island" of the compressor that generates the hp.
G
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Last edited by MIAPLAYA; 11-15-2006 at 09:06 PM.
11-15-2006, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JDMFairlady21
Wow it looks completely diff in pics Rob, really shows the big differences...
let me also confirm that these need new manifolds.
G i will have vid of it on the dyno soon as we get on it! =)
let me also confirm that these need new manifolds.
G i will have vid of it on the dyno soon as we get on it! =)
Originally Posted by 1G-350Z
Yea but before we Dyno the car; Vinny needs to practice his drifting technique in and around LI...
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
I said ROUGLY 720-740 Crank. With a built motor of course. Combined flow of course of two BB700s.
Built motors for endurance/brut strength; and built motors for endurance/brut strength + performance/efficiency; which draws the line between the installer and an engine builder.
G
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11-15-2006, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 350Zzzz
Better be soon…or I might get too old to drive j/k
You’re bad…RP
There are built motors and there are BUILT motors.
Built motors for endurance/brut strength; and built motors for endurance/brut strength + performance/efficiency; which draws the line between the installer and an engine builder.
G
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You’re bad…RP
There are built motors and there are BUILT motors.
Built motors for endurance/brut strength; and built motors for endurance/brut strength + performance/efficiency; which draws the line between the installer and an engine builder.
G
______________
11-15-2006, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
I don't think there are too many consumers out there building ultra efficient drag car motors. The majority of people are building stronger versions of the current motors with upgrades in efficiency no doubt but the "norm" is not a stroked and crazy cammed drag motor. I'm referencing street cars here as that is what most people would be installing these on. Anything can be done to a motor thats not meant to run on a street driven car.
11-15-2006, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 1G-350Z
Well not to start an engine debate... For those that have seen vids of PM's silver car that ran low 8's That motor, and the Pro car are not stroked. Both are stock stroke... The silver car @ the time when it ran low 8's had minor head work done Nismo off the shelf Cams; stock Valve size VTR spec Springs... Stock upper and lower intake manifold... Stock Crank also.. Look out for our motor programs... It might surprise you... Keep in mind I think we will be the only engine program out there back by Pro Racing Experience on the VQ... I think that should count for somthing...
11-15-2006, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
What I'm referring to is the mass flow rate these turbos/engine can produce within the efficiency island of the turbo. Flow rate is calculated as C.I.Dx.5xRPMxVe/1728. On most engines with a Ve of 100% that I have mapped and seen dyno you can roughly calculate CHP from the flow rate being produced by the compressor at a given pressure ratio. Like I said this is a rough estimate. Keeping in mind that unless you are spraying on top of the turbos the only airflow the engine is seeing is the airflow being produced by the turbos. The CFM output of the turbos is a direct correlation to the HP that will be produced by the motor. Again this is a rough estimate. Altering cam timing, adding nitrous, and a hundred other things can alter this but this is a general picture of what these turbos can make HP wise while staying in their efficiency map. The further outside of this island you go the less gains you are going to see.
The CFM output of the turbos is absolutely not a direct correlation to the HP that will be produced by the motor.
I will leave it to the PM team to comment on the numbers that Vinny generated on his stage-1 VQ35DE with 30 psi of boost; and FYI, it was no where close to 700 whp, 720 hp or even 714 hp.
This street car, 2 more on the way, has an ultra efficient VQ35DE motor in it; Granted 500 to 600 rwhp is overkill on a street car.
G
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Last edited by 350Zzzz; 11-15-2006 at 09:40 PM.
11-15-2006, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
What turbos and what boost pressure?
PS the Fuel was race gas C16...
Last edited by 1G-350Z; 11-15-2006 at 09:39 PM.
11-15-2006, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 350Zzzz
Please don't take it personal, as I am not directing my response at you in particular......I am simply responding to your comments.
The CFM output of the turbos is absolutely not a direct correlation to the HP that will be produced by the motor.
I will leave it to the PM team to comment the numbers that Vinny generated on his stage-1 VQ35DE with 30 psi of boost; and FYI, it was no where close to 700 whp, 720 hp or even 714 hp.
Personally 500 to 600 rwhp is overkill for a street car.
G
The CFM output of the turbos is absolutely not a direct correlation to the HP that will be produced by the motor.
I will leave it to the PM team to comment the numbers that Vinny generated on his stage-1 VQ35DE with 30 psi of boost; and FYI, it was no where close to 700 whp, 720 hp or even 714 hp.
Personally 500 to 600 rwhp is overkill for a street car.
G
Last edited by MIAPLAYA; 11-15-2006 at 09:40 PM.
11-15-2006, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 1G-350Z
Cutom Turbos that are originally meant for truck application... When they ran 8's they probably ran 45psi... Don't know for sure...
PS the Fuel was race gas C16...
PS the Fuel was race gas C16...
11-15-2006, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 350Zzzz
Please don't take it personal, as I am not directing my response at you in particular......I am simply responding to your comments.
The CFM output of the turbos is absolutely not a direct correlation to the HP that will be produced by the motor.
I will leave it to the PM team to comment on the numbers that Vinny generated on his stage-1 VQ35DE with 30 psi of boost; and FYI, it was no where close to 700 whp, 720 hp or even 714 hp.
This street car, 2 more on the way, has an ultra efficient VQ35DE motor in it; Granted 500 to 600 rwhp is overkill on a street car.
G
_____________
The CFM output of the turbos is absolutely not a direct correlation to the HP that will be produced by the motor.
I will leave it to the PM team to comment on the numbers that Vinny generated on his stage-1 VQ35DE with 30 psi of boost; and FYI, it was no where close to 700 whp, 720 hp or even 714 hp.
This street car, 2 more on the way, has an ultra efficient VQ35DE motor in it; Granted 500 to 600 rwhp is overkill on a street car.
G
_____________
Last edited by MIAPLAYA; 11-15-2006 at 10:04 PM.
11-16-2006, 05:31 AM
#40
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
Oh and FYI Garrett the maker of this turbo agrees with me. When this turbo is not being called a JWT BB700 its being called a GT2860R by Garrett. Heres their catalog. http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...on/catalog.pdf I'm attaching the page of this catalog that contains the info on the GT2860R. Note the compressor major diameter, trim, A/R, turbine size, trim, A/R, and compressor map are IDENTICAL to the JWT BB700 unit. In other words same unit. Garrett thinks its should only be used up to 360 HP per unit. Which falls right in line with my rough estimate of 720 for combined flow of two units. Again I'm not saying more CAN'T be made just that a larger turbo would be more efficient when going for those power levels. Once last thing to note. Running a 3.085... Pressure ratio (30 PSI of boost) at anything above 34 lb/min of flow is already taking this unit off the efficiency island.
In regards to a previous post, saying that an engine is running 40psi of boost pressure means nothing to me, without knowing the mass airflow generated by this turbo, or at least the size/type of turbocharger installed. 20psi of boost pressure out of one tiny turbo is going to flow a fraction of the air, generated by a larger frame turbocharger at the same 20psi pressure.
You can push a turbocharger further than its theoretically peak efficiency range, but you generate more heat, and diminishing returns in terms of mass airflow. Mass air is the only factor we should be looking at when judging turbos...not shear pressure. My technicians WRX makes 5psi at 1/8th throttle in a the parking lot, but its generatating virtually no airflow...LOL.
PM, it is my understanding, that the PE Drag car that you guys built ran in the 10's. Then you guys switched to a different turbocharger setup and ran 8's. But wasnt the intake manifold, throttle body, and piping upgraded as well? All of the 8 second drag cars I have seen run some pretty wild setups.