MADScientist

iTrader: (3)

Gang,

Wondering what the limits of the stock head gaskets are... I know that everyone is going with the HKS gaskets, but is it really needed?

With a HP goal of 600 maximum, I am thinking the OEM head gaskets will get the job done, especially with the L19 head studs clamping everything down.

Any thoughts? Really just trying to save money every place I can... If I can use the head gaskets that come with the engine overhaul kit that will save me $400 or so by not having to get an aftermarket gasket.

Thanks for the insight in advance!

-Joe Kenefic

rocks

iTrader: (1)

I have 1/2" studs and hks gaskets better to be safe than have to worry about opening the block up again.

booger

iTrader: (6)

you may get away with it , but its a bad place to try to save money IMOP . I had to pull my motor out again to replace stock headgaskets used on my engine build . I didnt use L19 or 1/2 inchers the first time either . But why take the chance . I went L19's and HKS gaskets this time.

wtf no turbo

iTrader: (6)

Ditto

thawk408

iTrader: (16)

Talk to VRT. I believe they use stock headgaskets in their cars. Even the ones pushing 20psi.

sugarspunZ

iTrader: (2)

as far as i know as long as the everything is machined correctly the stock head gasket is just fine.

MADScientist

iTrader: (3)

That is what I was thinking... The OEM head gasket is a metal gasket, not paper based like some other engines out there i.e. the SR20DET... I used to have a S13 with this engine swap and the stock head gasket would be the first to go (around 350-400hp) because it was not metal.

phunk

iTrader: (21)

HKS headgaskets all the way. This is definatly not the place to save money.

rocks

iTrader: (1)

The head gasket on my ford 2.3l turbo was metal and it broke in 4 spots at 19 psi after 2 weeks. Get hks gaskets.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Unfortuanately, there arent enough data points, of people using stock head gaskets at true 600whp levels. I think MRC is using one...at about 520whp and its holding up. Honda guys swear by the stock headgasket. With stock head bolts, and stock gaskets, people have experience head lift even at pretty low boost on stock VQ35'a. So my vote is for the HKS gasket and the L19's.

MADScientist

iTrader: (3)

I was one of those guys... That is why I decided to ask the question.

I have built a few b18s, sleeved, with the stock head gaskets. If it was above 500hp I used a copper o-ring with reciever groove in the head machined to the crush ring on the OEM honda gasket... as my memory serves me the Honda and Nissan gaskets are contructed the same way (please correct me if I am wrong).

If indead the gaskets are similar the honda gasket was ok @ 125whp per cyl... I am shooting for 100whp per cyl in the VQ. Seems to me that if the clamping force is there to keep the heads from lifting then I should be ok.

Going back to the SR20 style "paper" gasket, it uses a steel blast ring that is supported by the paper type material... cumbustion and high cyl psi will basically blow the blast ring out into the surrounding paper gasket material... The OEM VQ gasket is all metal with a sealing compound and a raised crush ring surrounding the cyls.

To blow out the OEM gasket, assuming you have enough clamping force with the L19 or 1/2" head studs, would take an extreme amount out cyl pressure.

So that being said, what are your opinions on this? I have myself talked into it... LOL, but I dont want to be foolish. I know that the head gaskets are $200-$400 to upgrade, but why do it unless it is needed?

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Nobody has a definite answer to this question. All the info to make an informed decision is available to you though, IMO like most others said dont skimp on this. Why would you want to be a "test mule" on the stock HG + 1/2" stud combo? Not spending $400 now and spending thousands later on labor to re-pull the heads and replace a blown head gasket (best case scenario) would be silly. Good luck with everything.

BamBam

iTrader: (4)

^_^ +1 what Berto said... I can attest that blowing a headgasket can be a $4,000+ headache... Makes A LOT more sense to spend $200 or so now for an upgraded gasket then $$$$ later (plus downtime) to replace a blown one.... Just my --B

Dirty Dave

iTrader: (8)

How much does labor go for to swap out head gaskets ? I have been thinking about switching out to hks gaskets but my problem is my motor was built wayy before these gaskets were on the market.

rocks

iTrader: (1)

The engine has to be lifted since the lower and upper oil pan need to come out to remove the timing gear to remove the heads.

phunk

iTrader: (21)

if it were my own personal car, i would wait and see if my engine has a problem first. its a very extensive job to go back in there - i would rather wait and see if something else breaks first

Dirty Dave

iTrader: (8)

Can you at least install L19 studs without removing upper and lower oil pan ?

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

i cant believe this is even a debate, the hks are around 300 dollars, my engine was FULLY built, darton sleeved by darton, arias ED pistons, pauter rods, 1/2 inch head studs tqed down to 105-110. with cometic (cosworth) headgaskets...


well i am pulling my motor back out tomorrow to replace them, its sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much work to replace such an inexpensive item.

i will be replacing it with HKS and i will be pushing the limits of them as well.

btw, the headgaskets failed at 17 psi and around 70 shot of nitrous....

unless you can do all your own work and have friends at a machine shop to check your block and heads when your headgasket fails for free, then go ahead and spend the extra 300 dollars on your 5000+ motor build...

MADScientist

iTrader: (3)

I do happen to do all of my own work... When this engine build happens I will be putting it together aside from the short block. Labor is really not a concern of mine, it is the down time required to to the work.

I was just looking from some data points to see if anyone else out there was still using the OE gasket with success... Based on the feed back looks like the HKS is the way to go.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

The upper pan can remain, but the lower pan needs to be removed to access two bolts running through the front timing cover. The front timing cover has to be removed, and trying to change the headgasket, studs, etc...with the engine inside the car is torture......so.....we remove the engine in order to facilitate this process.