MUZZY's Vortech install ton of pics (guide for future FI Z's)
03-28-2007, 06:35 PM
#42
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wow, I was going to do the Stillen due to being able to do it myself. But after reading this I will definately consider the vortech. Why did you not use the tap in the oil pan instead of drilling in your block?
03-29-2007, 04:54 AM
#43
more than 2 ppl asked me this so here is why.
also been 2 days ow since AAM hasnt give me a final copy of the dyno.
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.C.I.C.
Muzzy,
I was reading your post today and wondering why you drilled the hole in your engine for the 3/8 nft fitting?
I searched, but found that the oil spacer has an extra fitting to connect too instead of the engine for the oil lines. It didn't say why in most of the posts.
Thanks for your time.
Jason
yea man no problem here is why I went this way, and why vortech recomends you to do it thisway.
The oil drain line only works by gravity. by making the whole in the block I made sure %100 that the oil drains back to the oil pan no matter what. but when you put your return line on a spacer or a aftermarket oil pan your putting your drain below the oil line. This will creat an oil level in the oil drain line itself.
basically its like a straw in a glass of water. your water will be in the same hight in the straw as in your line. now when u put water down the straw it requires a little bit more effort for it to push down on the water line in the straw.
also if you get air pockets it is difficult for the air bubbles to push down the drain into the pan, but in my setup there is no problem since im above the oil line and there is no oil in the "straw".
diference is my set up "straw above the glass puring water down it"
spacers " straw in the glass puring water down it"
I hope that helps.
ppl have done it ither way but that one time that you go WOT and u dont get enough oil in ur blower b/c of back pressure in the oil line you will regret it.
also been 2 days ow since AAM hasnt give me a final copy of the dyno.
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.C.I.C.
Muzzy,
I was reading your post today and wondering why you drilled the hole in your engine for the 3/8 nft fitting?
I searched, but found that the oil spacer has an extra fitting to connect too instead of the engine for the oil lines. It didn't say why in most of the posts.
Thanks for your time.
Jason
yea man no problem here is why I went this way, and why vortech recomends you to do it thisway.
The oil drain line only works by gravity. by making the whole in the block I made sure %100 that the oil drains back to the oil pan no matter what. but when you put your return line on a spacer or a aftermarket oil pan your putting your drain below the oil line. This will creat an oil level in the oil drain line itself.
basically its like a straw in a glass of water. your water will be in the same hight in the straw as in your line. now when u put water down the straw it requires a little bit more effort for it to push down on the water line in the straw.
also if you get air pockets it is difficult for the air bubbles to push down the drain into the pan, but in my setup there is no problem since im above the oil line and there is no oil in the "straw".
diference is my set up "straw above the glass puring water down it"
spacers " straw in the glass puring water down it"
I hope that helps.
ppl have done it ither way but that one time that you go WOT and u dont get enough oil in ur blower b/c of back pressure in the oil line you will regret it.
03-29-2007, 11:09 AM
#44
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Muzzy,
I talked to Mike and told him to give you a call about getting you the final dyno sheets. I dont know why he has not sent it yet, I will talk to him again. I am sorry this is taking so long to get this to you, if I could send them to you I would. Also, did you get the fuel pump on yet? If so when did you want to come down and get the final tune?
Thanks,
Dave
I talked to Mike and told him to give you a call about getting you the final dyno sheets. I dont know why he has not sent it yet, I will talk to him again. I am sorry this is taking so long to get this to you, if I could send them to you I would. Also, did you get the fuel pump on yet? If so when did you want to come down and get the final tune?
Thanks,
Dave
03-29-2007, 11:23 AM
#45
Originally Posted by Dave@altered
Muzzy,
I talked to Mike and told him to give you a call about getting you the final dyno sheets. I dont know why he has not sent it yet, I will talk to him again. I am sorry this is taking so long to get this to you, if I could send them to you I would. Also, did you get the fuel pump on yet? If so when did you want to come down and get the final tune?
Thanks,
Dave
I talked to Mike and told him to give you a call about getting you the final dyno sheets. I dont know why he has not sent it yet, I will talk to him again. I am sorry this is taking so long to get this to you, if I could send them to you I would. Also, did you get the fuel pump on yet? If so when did you want to come down and get the final tune?
Thanks,
Dave
but im going to switch my exhoust to tru duals and getting rid of my pro-1 3" so till I get that done this spring Im going to have to weit.
Yea remind Mike to send them to me when possible. I know you guys are real busy, and its all because of the great work you guys do. Im glad I got you guys to tune and work on my car because it runs like a dream right now.
Thanks again for keeping in touch, hopefully I can post those dynoes on here soon.
03-29-2007, 11:55 AM
#48
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you would need to talk to Mike about that. When you were down here we could not get a final tune on it bacause of the fuel pump and injectors. So now that you are getting that on, when you can come back down we can get it all tuned up. Im sure you are running rich now, and will be even richer once the pump goes in.
03-29-2007, 12:19 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by MUZZY
more than 2 ppl asked me this so here is why.
also been 2 days ow since AAM hasnt give me a final copy of the dyno.
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.C.I.C.
Muzzy,
I was reading your post today and wondering why you drilled the hole in your engine for the 3/8 nft fitting?
I searched, but found that the oil spacer has an extra fitting to connect too instead of the engine for the oil lines. It didn't say why in most of the posts.
Thanks for your time.
Jason
yea man no problem here is why I went this way, and why vortech recomends you to do it thisway.
The oil drain line only works by gravity. by making the whole in the block I made sure %100 that the oil drains back to the oil pan no matter what. but when you put your return line on a spacer or a aftermarket oil pan your putting your drain below the oil line. This will creat an oil level in the oil drain line itself.
basically its like a straw in a glass of water. your water will be in the same hight in the straw as in your line. now when u put water down the straw it requires a little bit more effort for it to push down on the water line in the straw.
also if you get air pockets it is difficult for the air bubbles to push down the drain into the pan, but in my setup there is no problem since im above the oil line and there is no oil in the "straw".
diference is my set up "straw above the glass puring water down it"
spacers " straw in the glass puring water down it"
I hope that helps.
ppl have done it ither way but that one time that you go WOT and u dont get enough oil in ur blower b/c of back pressure in the oil line you will regret it.
also been 2 days ow since AAM hasnt give me a final copy of the dyno.
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.C.I.C.
Muzzy,
I was reading your post today and wondering why you drilled the hole in your engine for the 3/8 nft fitting?
I searched, but found that the oil spacer has an extra fitting to connect too instead of the engine for the oil lines. It didn't say why in most of the posts.
Thanks for your time.
Jason
yea man no problem here is why I went this way, and why vortech recomends you to do it thisway.
The oil drain line only works by gravity. by making the whole in the block I made sure %100 that the oil drains back to the oil pan no matter what. but when you put your return line on a spacer or a aftermarket oil pan your putting your drain below the oil line. This will creat an oil level in the oil drain line itself.
basically its like a straw in a glass of water. your water will be in the same hight in the straw as in your line. now when u put water down the straw it requires a little bit more effort for it to push down on the water line in the straw.
also if you get air pockets it is difficult for the air bubbles to push down the drain into the pan, but in my setup there is no problem since im above the oil line and there is no oil in the "straw".
diference is my set up "straw above the glass puring water down it"
spacers " straw in the glass puring water down it"
I hope that helps.
ppl have done it ither way but that one time that you go WOT and u dont get enough oil in ur blower b/c of back pressure in the oil line you will regret it.
Also if you have ever done any sort of FI before, you will know that no oil just sits in the return line.
03-29-2007, 12:34 PM
#50
Originally Posted by THE TECH
I don't buy it. Tapping directly into the pan, yes I could see a "possible" issue. If you tap into a spacer, which is above the stock oil level, you will avoid issues as well.
Also if you have ever done any sort of FI before, you will know that no oil just sits in the return line.
Also if you have ever done any sort of FI before, you will know that no oil just sits in the return line.
03-29-2007, 12:42 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by booger
You have it wrong I believe . The oil level is way above the lower oil pan , and a oil pan spacer . Maybe Vortech thinks the oil doesnt drain back fast enough and may back up into the blower . dont know ....but it isnt no big deal to tap the upper oil pan .
03-29-2007, 12:43 PM
#52
how does the TN kit get its oil? where does it tap? The turbo on that kit sits at the same location as the vortech
I'd think with enough oil pressure and a safe amount of oil there'd be no issues with tapping the oil line around where the oil pan is instead of up higher on the block. I mean, the APS oil pan comes with a tap plug - that's what I used. Not sure if it's causing any issues, but it doesn't seem to
I'd think with enough oil pressure and a safe amount of oil there'd be no issues with tapping the oil line around where the oil pan is instead of up higher on the block. I mean, the APS oil pan comes with a tap plug - that's what I used. Not sure if it's causing any issues, but it doesn't seem to
03-29-2007, 01:07 PM
#53
Originally Posted by sentry65
how does the TN kit get its oil? where does it tap? The turbo on that kit sits at the same location as the vortech
I'd think with enough oil pressure and a safe amount of oil there'd be no issues with tapping the oil line around where the oil pan is instead of up higher on the block. I mean, the APS oil pan comes with a tap plug - that's what I used. Not sure if it's causing any issues, but it doesn't seem to
I'd think with enough oil pressure and a safe amount of oil there'd be no issues with tapping the oil line around where the oil pan is instead of up higher on the block. I mean, the APS oil pan comes with a tap plug - that's what I used. Not sure if it's causing any issues, but it doesn't seem to
03-29-2007, 03:36 PM
#54
if u have a spacer the oil line is way above it...... in the stock oil pan the oil lelvel is around 3-4" higher
and yes other kits have their own pumps.. vortech is just gravity drain
this is vary debatable that is why half the ppl tap the block other use spacers and pans. FYI if u use a spacer or want to take it to a port on ur oil pan you will need to buy a new hose since its a longer distance..... another reason i tapped the block.
and yes other kits have their own pumps.. vortech is just gravity drain
this is vary debatable that is why half the ppl tap the block other use spacers and pans. FYI if u use a spacer or want to take it to a port on ur oil pan you will need to buy a new hose since its a longer distance..... another reason i tapped the block.
Last edited by MUZZY; 03-29-2007 at 03:41 PM.
03-29-2007, 03:48 PM
#55
I'd think that as oil is being pumped into the blower, it'd also push the oil out of the blower.
so I'm just guessing that the bad thing about tapping a spacer or using an aftermarket oil pan is that oil passes through the blower slower than it otherwise might?
any good shop can find some longer hose to use, it's just hose and not really expensive. People get paranoid about tapping the block. I had no fear of doing it, but my installer thought the job would be simpler by using the oil pan. He said that's exactly how the APS kits do it. I never looked into if the APS has a pump or not - hell, can't we just buy a pump? wouldn't that probably be safer anyway?
so I'm just guessing that the bad thing about tapping a spacer or using an aftermarket oil pan is that oil passes through the blower slower than it otherwise might?
any good shop can find some longer hose to use, it's just hose and not really expensive. People get paranoid about tapping the block. I had no fear of doing it, but my installer thought the job would be simpler by using the oil pan. He said that's exactly how the APS kits do it. I never looked into if the APS has a pump or not - hell, can't we just buy a pump? wouldn't that probably be safer anyway?
Last edited by sentry65; 03-29-2007 at 03:51 PM.
03-29-2007, 04:23 PM
#56
I'm looking at the APS TT diagram for the oil lines to and from the turbos, an am not seeing a pump
looks like the oil empties to the lower oil pan even without the aid of gravity, or at least a pretty shallow angle
looks like the oil empties to the lower oil pan even without the aid of gravity, or at least a pretty shallow angle
Last edited by sentry65; 03-29-2007 at 04:30 PM.
03-29-2007, 04:27 PM
#57
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I am just not to thrilled of the idea of tapping my block. I had to tap a fuel rail once to set up a nitrous setup and ended up needing a new rail, I can just imagine what would happen if I messed up the block. I would just feel safer using the oilpan. Where did you get your oil pan at Muzzy?
03-30-2007, 06:06 AM
#58
Originally Posted by hyperz
I am just not to thrilled of the idea of tapping my block. I had to tap a fuel rail once to set up a nitrous setup and ended up needing a new rail, I can just imagine what would happen if I messed up the block. I would just feel safer using the oilpan. Where did you get your oil pan at Muzzy?