New vortech dyno charts at GTM 477.8 whp 383 tq
Its the first time Ive ever heard you say anything about a tracking the car at all . Have you ever been on a road course or a 1/4 mile track ? Just curious ...you always seem to talk about going , but havent ever heard you say you did .
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 9,722
Likes: 2
From: phoenix, AZ
I've tracked my car when I was NA on road courses. In fact when I was NA, that was my primary focus, was building my car to handle road courses. Part of me in some ways wish I stayed NA because there's more room for error in a lower powered car and you don't go through brakes and tires as fast and generally don't break or overheat things as much.
As weird as it is, I feel like if my car isn't ready for track abuse, it's just not ready to be driven hard yet. I've been there on the track when I was NA and my clutch fluid would boil because my clutch line was stock and right next to the headers. So I had to spend most of the day only using 3rd gear because I really couldn't change gears with boiled fluid. The clutch just sticks to the floor and it kinda ruins the day that I paid good money for. I can't stand that sorta thing. I'm sure I'll run into some issues on the track, but I want to make sure I've covered everything I'm aware of first - which might include my brakes
I'm not a track rat or anything though. I like the feeling of high performance cars even out on the street. But I am interested in tracking and will be looking into it more now that my car is fully ready for it.
Believe me, I get crap all the time from so many people in real life and online about when am I going to take it on a road course or the 1/4 mile. And I have kept having to say I still had that fuel pressure issue and my tune wasn't good enough or consistent enough for it yet. I refuse to blow up my engine because I'm too anxious to run the car hard when it isn't running at 100% healthy
sometime next week or whatever I'm having my racing seat put in (finally) and also an ARC undertray because my stock one is chewed up big time and warped etc. I'm having my brake and clutch fluid flushed with new Motul fluid
I was going to have GTM corner balance my car, but we just ran out of time. I haven't found anyone local to do that yet without driving 2 hours away. I don't plan on altering anything major with weight for awhile so figured it would be a good time for it
Even still I'm mainly just going to be trying to get to know my car on the courses because it really is still kinda new to me - I haven't been able to really redline my car shift after shift for a year because of the ongoing fuel issue. My front and rear tires are not matched so that makes the handling a little more spooky near the limit so I'm not going to push the car very hard on a road course until I have a better feel of things and get a new set of tires. I might try some drifting and autox courses though when I have more time (I have to work freelance jobs outside of my normal job to pay for a lot of my mods)
The car is perfectly ready for the drag strip though. I just need to practice some first and get a little more used to things
I'm really not the greatest drag racer though or anything
As weird as it is, I feel like if my car isn't ready for track abuse, it's just not ready to be driven hard yet. I've been there on the track when I was NA and my clutch fluid would boil because my clutch line was stock and right next to the headers. So I had to spend most of the day only using 3rd gear because I really couldn't change gears with boiled fluid. The clutch just sticks to the floor and it kinda ruins the day that I paid good money for. I can't stand that sorta thing. I'm sure I'll run into some issues on the track, but I want to make sure I've covered everything I'm aware of first - which might include my brakes
I'm not a track rat or anything though. I like the feeling of high performance cars even out on the street. But I am interested in tracking and will be looking into it more now that my car is fully ready for it.
Believe me, I get crap all the time from so many people in real life and online about when am I going to take it on a road course or the 1/4 mile. And I have kept having to say I still had that fuel pressure issue and my tune wasn't good enough or consistent enough for it yet. I refuse to blow up my engine because I'm too anxious to run the car hard when it isn't running at 100% healthy
sometime next week or whatever I'm having my racing seat put in (finally) and also an ARC undertray because my stock one is chewed up big time and warped etc. I'm having my brake and clutch fluid flushed with new Motul fluid
I was going to have GTM corner balance my car, but we just ran out of time. I haven't found anyone local to do that yet without driving 2 hours away. I don't plan on altering anything major with weight for awhile so figured it would be a good time for it
Even still I'm mainly just going to be trying to get to know my car on the courses because it really is still kinda new to me - I haven't been able to really redline my car shift after shift for a year because of the ongoing fuel issue. My front and rear tires are not matched so that makes the handling a little more spooky near the limit so I'm not going to push the car very hard on a road course until I have a better feel of things and get a new set of tires. I might try some drifting and autox courses though when I have more time (I have to work freelance jobs outside of my normal job to pay for a lot of my mods)
The car is perfectly ready for the drag strip though. I just need to practice some first and get a little more used to things
I'm really not the greatest drag racer though or anything
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 22, 2007 at 06:59 PM.
Originally Posted by sentry65
The car is perfectly ready for the drag strip though. I just need to practice some first and get a little more used to things
I'm really not the greatest drag racer though or anything
I'm really not the greatest drag racer though or anything
Best way to get to know how the car will react . Is to put it on the track and do some runs . You dont need a under pan , new racing seat . You said it was ready...are you ???
Fantastic job with the Vortech Sentry65. I know Kevin in Colorado was around 475hp and was "scary fast" from talking to someone who drove it.
One car I think of when I see Vortech dynos is the Ferrari F1430. I've had the privledge of driving one and the power delivery is very smooth. I found a dyno just for comparison. I'm pretty sure you would walk this $300K car easily. Again geat job on developing your car.
One car I think of when I see Vortech dynos is the Ferrari F1430. I've had the privledge of driving one and the power delivery is very smooth. I found a dyno just for comparison. I'm pretty sure you would walk this $300K car easily. Again geat job on developing your car.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 9,722
Likes: 2
From: phoenix, AZ
Originally Posted by PORTUGEE
Fantastic job with the Vortech Sentry65. I know Kevin in Colorado was around 475hp and was "scary fast" from talking to someone who drove it.
One car I think of when I see Vortech dynos is the Ferrari F1430. I've had the privledge of driving one and the power delivery is very smooth. I found a dyno just for comparison. I'm pretty sure you would walk this $300K car easily. Again geat job on developing your car.
One car I think of when I see Vortech dynos is the Ferrari F1430. I've had the privledge of driving one and the power delivery is very smooth. I found a dyno just for comparison. I'm pretty sure you would walk this $300K car easily. Again geat job on developing your car.
yeah the F430 has been kinda the car I've been somewhat modeling my car after to some degree and comparing it to. The F430 doesn't have massive torque, but it revs high and makes a lot of it's accelleration mainly because of its gearing, revs, and balance
Originally Posted by booger
Best way to get to know how the car will react . Is to put it on the track and do some runs . You dont need a under pan , new racing seat . You said it was ready...are you ???
I can put in a seat and tray without having to make a whole night of it
No they're not a big deal and no they obviously won't have any effect on the drag strip - who would think such a thing?
I have the parts sitting around, so I might as well just put them on when I can get around to it
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 22, 2007 at 08:53 PM.
Originally Posted by sentry65
thanks,
yeah the F430 has been kinda the car I've been somewhat modeling my car after to some degree and comparing it to. It doesn't have massive torque, but it revs high and makes a lot of it's accelleration because of its gearing, revs, and balance
yeah the F430 has been kinda the car I've been somewhat modeling my car after to some degree and comparing it to. It doesn't have massive torque, but it revs high and makes a lot of it's accelleration because of its gearing, revs, and balance
Originally Posted by sentry65
At last I finally made it to GTM to have the Fcon V-pro installed and get my fuel pressure issue fixed. The results speak for themselves. There’s two maps, one for 91 octane, and one for 96 octane. However I’m still going to run 5 octane higher gas on each map just for added safety because I’m paranoid.
The 91 octane map came out with 455.2 whp and 370.6 tq (1st graph)
The 96 octane map came out with 477.8 whp and 383 tq (2nd graph)
GTM uses a dynojet
I might throw my car on dynocomp's dyno (dyno dynamics) since I've always used their dyno and am curious what their dyno shows
video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXo-ZuqfCIQ
Sam at GTM and really everyone there are just awesome. I have nothing but tremendous things to say about them and their shop and level of detail they spend on your car and keeping in touch with you about how things are going. The shop is absolutely huge and easily the most impressive shop I’ve ever seen and likely ever will because of the sheer size of it and amount of equipment they have. Sam showed me all sorts of things they’ve been working on and I won’t steel his thunder, but he has some neat parts coming available soon.
There’s just so many things that seemed beyond what a normal shop would do. He measured A/F directly from the cats instead of the exhaust when on the dyno. After tuning my car, we went out and tuned it on the street for awhile, came back and he tweaked it some more. Then let it sit idle so it’d heat soak, and tweaked it some more, then street tuned it even more. The level of care he takes with the Fcon is impressive to me. I know a full standalone needs a lot more detail than a normal piggyback, but I was extremely happy about his personal mission to get everything as perfect as it possibly could.
As far as the Fcon itself – it’s obviously a major improvement. It’s very smooth. Before I sometimes felt the powerband would have little lumps at as revs went up or slight lumps in power as the throttle position changed, but not anymore with the Fcon. It's very smooth and feels great. It’s by far not a cheap investment, but probably well worth it in the end. I had a knock amp installed, EGT compensation, air temp sensor, and Navigator monitor as well as all the other standard Fcon things included in the Fcon special they’re still currently running.
My fuel pressure issue has been fixed. The culprit was my pump assembly. One of the fittings was loose, one of the hoses they said was collapsed or something along those lines to block flow, it possibly wasn’t drilled with the right size, and the cloth sack thing (don’t know its proper name) was all messed up and broken/deflated – they said it was bent or whatever. Anyway I got a completely new pump assembly and they started from scratch also including a brand new walbro pump. The CJM stage 2 hard line was also installed.
That’s about it. The car is faster. I can feel just from driving it, that it gained some power. He did do a dyno run of my car as it was when I drove in to his shop and said on his dyno it did several 380whp runs initially and then it somehow was able to do a couple 400-420whp runs. I haven’t seen those graphs though yet as we both totally forgot about them and I don’t know how much torque they made earlier in the powerband.
Either way I can finally drive the car fully all the way to redline and it drives better and smoother than it’s ever driven before. Sam and everything about GT Motorsports was great – everything was finished a day late, but I know how these sorts of things go so I wasn’t too shocked by that and Sam made up for it anyway (I was staying in CA with my wife for a few days and we needed to get back). I mainly was concerned with the results and I got exactly what I was expected from them which was a great tune, a fixed car, and a great overall experience
BTW from the street tuning session Sam and I did on the car, I had complete traction in 2nd gear and onward. I haven't tried redlining 1st gear yet though, but it's probably too short to maintain WOT traction.
I'm on the stock bottom end. Check my signature for the details of my mods
The graphs do basically what I've been saying all along what I thought my car would do on a dynojet with proper fuel pressure so
to all the people who doubted me saying so
The 91 octane map came out with 455.2 whp and 370.6 tq (1st graph)
The 96 octane map came out with 477.8 whp and 383 tq (2nd graph)
GTM uses a dynojet
I might throw my car on dynocomp's dyno (dyno dynamics) since I've always used their dyno and am curious what their dyno shows
video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXo-ZuqfCIQ
Sam at GTM and really everyone there are just awesome. I have nothing but tremendous things to say about them and their shop and level of detail they spend on your car and keeping in touch with you about how things are going. The shop is absolutely huge and easily the most impressive shop I’ve ever seen and likely ever will because of the sheer size of it and amount of equipment they have. Sam showed me all sorts of things they’ve been working on and I won’t steel his thunder, but he has some neat parts coming available soon.
There’s just so many things that seemed beyond what a normal shop would do. He measured A/F directly from the cats instead of the exhaust when on the dyno. After tuning my car, we went out and tuned it on the street for awhile, came back and he tweaked it some more. Then let it sit idle so it’d heat soak, and tweaked it some more, then street tuned it even more. The level of care he takes with the Fcon is impressive to me. I know a full standalone needs a lot more detail than a normal piggyback, but I was extremely happy about his personal mission to get everything as perfect as it possibly could.
As far as the Fcon itself – it’s obviously a major improvement. It’s very smooth. Before I sometimes felt the powerband would have little lumps at as revs went up or slight lumps in power as the throttle position changed, but not anymore with the Fcon. It's very smooth and feels great. It’s by far not a cheap investment, but probably well worth it in the end. I had a knock amp installed, EGT compensation, air temp sensor, and Navigator monitor as well as all the other standard Fcon things included in the Fcon special they’re still currently running.
My fuel pressure issue has been fixed. The culprit was my pump assembly. One of the fittings was loose, one of the hoses they said was collapsed or something along those lines to block flow, it possibly wasn’t drilled with the right size, and the cloth sack thing (don’t know its proper name) was all messed up and broken/deflated – they said it was bent or whatever. Anyway I got a completely new pump assembly and they started from scratch also including a brand new walbro pump. The CJM stage 2 hard line was also installed.
That’s about it. The car is faster. I can feel just from driving it, that it gained some power. He did do a dyno run of my car as it was when I drove in to his shop and said on his dyno it did several 380whp runs initially and then it somehow was able to do a couple 400-420whp runs. I haven’t seen those graphs though yet as we both totally forgot about them and I don’t know how much torque they made earlier in the powerband.
Either way I can finally drive the car fully all the way to redline and it drives better and smoother than it’s ever driven before. Sam and everything about GT Motorsports was great – everything was finished a day late, but I know how these sorts of things go so I wasn’t too shocked by that and Sam made up for it anyway (I was staying in CA with my wife for a few days and we needed to get back). I mainly was concerned with the results and I got exactly what I was expected from them which was a great tune, a fixed car, and a great overall experience
BTW from the street tuning session Sam and I did on the car, I had complete traction in 2nd gear and onward. I haven't tried redlining 1st gear yet though, but it's probably too short to maintain WOT traction.
I'm on the stock bottom end. Check my signature for the details of my mods
The graphs do basically what I've been saying all along what I thought my car would do on a dynojet with proper fuel pressure so
to all the people who doubted me saying so
Sam
Sentry said you did a before pull and came up with 380wp and did some more and got 420whp . Could you tell us more of what was going on ? Kinda strange...he comes in the door with 380whp and out the door with 97whp more with just tuning . He was tuned by another shop to 430whp . You wouldnt think there was 47whp more left in it to tune .
Sentry said you did a before pull and came up with 380wp and did some more and got 420whp . Could you tell us more of what was going on ? Kinda strange...he comes in the door with 380whp and out the door with 97whp more with just tuning . He was tuned by another shop to 430whp . You wouldnt think there was 47whp more left in it to tune .
Awesome numbers! I'm glad the car didn't bend a rod on the dyno with that much power. Wonder if the s/c powerband has anything to do with that? Anyway, glad to see high numbers on the Vortech!
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 9,722
Likes: 2
From: phoenix, AZ
thanks again guys. Sam was confident that the vortech isn't hard on rods. In fact I met a guy there with a G35 4 door sedan with a vortech who previously burned up his rings with the vortech a long time ago. Sam said he was abusing his car when it wasn't completely finished. He isn't on the forums and said he's horrible with anything having to do with computers. Anyway, he's another example that the vortech doesn't snap rods, it burns or chips ringlands. BTW he has a built engine now with stage 1 heads and I think the supercharge cams (which seem to really make a difference) and is probably going to break the 500whp barrier according to him and Sam
I'll snap some pictures of my pump assembly sometime
the fitting that goes to the main return line was really loose
one of the CJM lines connected to it somehow was restricted or collapsed I think they said. The sack thing that's inside the assembly was bent sideways and not really doing its job
I wish I could explain it better, but I'll take some pics of my old assembly and point out what was wrong on mine
The CJM stage 2 system adds a hard line instead of using the stock OEM fuel line. It really probably wasn't necessary for my power level, but I bought it anyway just to be sure to eliminate that possibility - which it turned out wasn't needed because the pressure still dropped with it on until they pulled the pump assembly and redid it with a brand new one
I think Sam wants to keep his timing and injector maps a secret. He locks them on the Fcon so that people don't go and copy his work which is understandable
for anyone curious, I originally went in wanting 3 maps - for 91, 96, and 101 octane. After tuning it for awhile Sam finished the 91 and 96 maps. We were about to start on the 101 map and then we stopped and decided I should probably back off from doing the 101 octane map. We knew the car was hot from doing all the dyno runs. We could have let the car cool and pulled of one of those hail mary runs, but I felt it wouldn't really reflect how the car drives in the real world and didn't want to make anyone think my car truely runs 490+whp ALL the time and that it was comppletely safe. I don't want to give the community false expectations of what they should expect with a vortech setup.
Like I said, it was about 75-80 degrees outside that day. The previous night it was raining and was 48 degrees outside with the wind blowing into the building from the garage door. It was freaking cold. Had we finished tuning that night and not needed the fuel pressure issue fixed, my numbers might have been higher. We had to wait till morning to get a pump assembly from Nissan
I'll snap some pictures of my pump assembly sometime
the fitting that goes to the main return line was really loose
one of the CJM lines connected to it somehow was restricted or collapsed I think they said. The sack thing that's inside the assembly was bent sideways and not really doing its job
I wish I could explain it better, but I'll take some pics of my old assembly and point out what was wrong on mine
The CJM stage 2 system adds a hard line instead of using the stock OEM fuel line. It really probably wasn't necessary for my power level, but I bought it anyway just to be sure to eliminate that possibility - which it turned out wasn't needed because the pressure still dropped with it on until they pulled the pump assembly and redid it with a brand new one
I think Sam wants to keep his timing and injector maps a secret. He locks them on the Fcon so that people don't go and copy his work which is understandable
for anyone curious, I originally went in wanting 3 maps - for 91, 96, and 101 octane. After tuning it for awhile Sam finished the 91 and 96 maps. We were about to start on the 101 map and then we stopped and decided I should probably back off from doing the 101 octane map. We knew the car was hot from doing all the dyno runs. We could have let the car cool and pulled of one of those hail mary runs, but I felt it wouldn't really reflect how the car drives in the real world and didn't want to make anyone think my car truely runs 490+whp ALL the time and that it was comppletely safe. I don't want to give the community false expectations of what they should expect with a vortech setup.
Like I said, it was about 75-80 degrees outside that day. The previous night it was raining and was 48 degrees outside with the wind blowing into the building from the garage door. It was freaking cold. Had we finished tuning that night and not needed the fuel pressure issue fixed, my numbers might have been higher. We had to wait till morning to get a pump assembly from Nissan
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 23, 2007 at 10:08 AM.
Guess I should have keep my belt fix a secret so people LIKE YOU would not copy it.
I've been nice enough to pass along my work. Thats what this website is about. You won't be getting any more help from me.
How can you own a car and have now idea about the tuning?
By the way, when I pay to have work done on my car that info belongs to me, not the guy I paid. I really dought that GTM works like that.
I've been nice enough to pass along my work. Thats what this website is about. You won't be getting any more help from me.
How can you own a car and have now idea about the tuning?
By the way, when I pay to have work done on my car that info belongs to me, not the guy I paid. I really dought that GTM works like that.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 9,722
Likes: 2
From: phoenix, AZ
I dunno, all I know is something about Sam added 2 degrees timing somewhere. Sam is the only one who knows what the entire map looks like. He took it to the edge somewhere for the 96 octane map where if he added more timing, I actualy lost power. If I knew what those maps were and he was ok with everyone knowing, I'd be willing to share that info. But I understand he's a pro tuner and has something people want which gets him more business and he wants to protect that because its his living and thus he locks that info on my Fcon so no one can see it.
You guys probably already know the Fcon is going to probably have more resolution points for timing and fuel adjustments anyway. I mean, even if he posted everything on the map, unless you have an Fcon you won't be able to match the map exactly. If someone wants him to tune their car, I'm sure he'd be happy to do it. It's not like I have something unavailable to everyone else
I wasn't sitting right there with him when he was tuning my car. I was off to the side sitting in a chair where my video was shot from. It's also not like I have the HKS software anyway to even look at the map. I have my HKS navigator display which can display timing and injector duty cycle but it only shows you it for that exact moment you look at it. No one can write down the numbers that fast when they're flashing across the screen. But because it's locked, it shows nothing and won't display them.
Not only that, but I suspect my tune is somewhat specific to my car with my mods and location. My maps might not work so great on someone else's car for whatever reason and their maps might not work great on my car
Everything else about my car I've been extremely open to the community sharing everything I know, giving step by step instructions for everyone, but even if the Fcon didn't have the timing and fuel maps locked from me to see, I still would respect his request and not go posting them all over the internet.
TIMROD, sorry you feel that way, but the problem you have is with Sam, not me then. I think a lot of pro tuners like to safeguard their work. It's not out of the ordinary
You guys probably already know the Fcon is going to probably have more resolution points for timing and fuel adjustments anyway. I mean, even if he posted everything on the map, unless you have an Fcon you won't be able to match the map exactly. If someone wants him to tune their car, I'm sure he'd be happy to do it. It's not like I have something unavailable to everyone else
I wasn't sitting right there with him when he was tuning my car. I was off to the side sitting in a chair where my video was shot from. It's also not like I have the HKS software anyway to even look at the map. I have my HKS navigator display which can display timing and injector duty cycle but it only shows you it for that exact moment you look at it. No one can write down the numbers that fast when they're flashing across the screen. But because it's locked, it shows nothing and won't display them.
Not only that, but I suspect my tune is somewhat specific to my car with my mods and location. My maps might not work so great on someone else's car for whatever reason and their maps might not work great on my car
Everything else about my car I've been extremely open to the community sharing everything I know, giving step by step instructions for everyone, but even if the Fcon didn't have the timing and fuel maps locked from me to see, I still would respect his request and not go posting them all over the internet.
TIMROD, sorry you feel that way, but the problem you have is with Sam, not me then. I think a lot of pro tuners like to safeguard their work. It's not out of the ordinary
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 23, 2007 at 09:24 AM.
