New vortech dyno charts at GTM 477.8 whp 383 tq
Sam so what your saying is...With all the head work on the DSport G35 ..it was only able to make 488whp on 22psi ???? LOL and Sentry's car made 477whp on 11psi ????? come on..we all arent that gullable .
In an earlier post I compared thier cars but gave the Dereks car more whp . BUT...say both car made 240whp stock . You build one car to take boost and the other you put just cams in and use W/M . Now with Sentry's car he would be making 21.5 whp per every psi . And Derek's car would be making 11.2 whp per psi...thats a huge spread . Sentry's higher compression will gain him little over the 8.8 comp. and the 8.8 car will gain it back with more timing due to the lower comp. Then you said your self , you added back a couple of degrees of timing because of W/M...on average 1 degree will give back 10whp . But then you throw in Derek's high flow heads and hands down Dereks car has the better more free flowing engine...no if ands or buts about it . But you want us to sit here and believe Sentry's car made 10whp less than Derek's car at half the PSI ??????? Come on !!!!!!! Im not trying to insult you...but how much garbage are you expecting us to believe . You...Im sure are a great tuner....but you tuned both cars...one at 11psi for 477whp and the other using a bigger blower and a engine that flows more air and couldnt make but 10whp more with 11 more psi ??????? I think maybe you had your Dyno on tilt for Sentry's car . Or Sentry begged you to do it .
Either way.....21.5whp per psi....and 11.2whp per psi between the two cars isnt believable at all !!!!!!
In an earlier post I compared thier cars but gave the Dereks car more whp . BUT...say both car made 240whp stock . You build one car to take boost and the other you put just cams in and use W/M . Now with Sentry's car he would be making 21.5 whp per every psi . And Derek's car would be making 11.2 whp per psi...thats a huge spread . Sentry's higher compression will gain him little over the 8.8 comp. and the 8.8 car will gain it back with more timing due to the lower comp. Then you said your self , you added back a couple of degrees of timing because of W/M...on average 1 degree will give back 10whp . But then you throw in Derek's high flow heads and hands down Dereks car has the better more free flowing engine...no if ands or buts about it . But you want us to sit here and believe Sentry's car made 10whp less than Derek's car at half the PSI ??????? Come on !!!!!!! Im not trying to insult you...but how much garbage are you expecting us to believe . You...Im sure are a great tuner....but you tuned both cars...one at 11psi for 477whp and the other using a bigger blower and a engine that flows more air and couldnt make but 10whp more with 11 more psi ??????? I think maybe you had your Dyno on tilt for Sentry's car . Or Sentry begged you to do it .
Either way.....21.5whp per psi....and 11.2whp per psi between the two cars isnt believable at all !!!!!!
Originally Posted by sentry65
I know booger is still in here posting and probably blasting me or whatever from what I see in people quoting him.
I don't know Dsports exact setup or what his timing map was, but I believe he had:
Heads:
-M2 Race Systems Port & Polished Heads
-Ferrea Valvetrain
-Tomei Cams
-ARP Head Studs
Block:
-Cosworth Performance Machined and Balanced
-XS Engineering Assembled and Tuned
-Wiseco 8.8:1 CR Pistons
-Pauter Rods
-ARP Main Studs
-ATI Racing Damper
Supercharger:
-Vortech T-trim Supercharger
-XS Engineering Custom Piping
-31X11.2X4.5 Intercooler
-Custom 3" piping
-Custom cog setup off of the crank pulley
Fuel System:
-XS Engineering Custom Fuel System
-Aeromotive FPR
-Aeromotive Fuel Pump
-RC Engineering Injectors
Drivetrain:
-ATS triple clutch
-Driveshaft Shop Stage 5 Axles
-Kaaz LSD
-Crawford Z Intake Manifold
these parts I don't know what he has on his car:
-headers?
-cats/test pipes and what diameter?
-exhaust and what diameter etc?
mainly he reached his power by reving to 7500+ rpms. If I was able to rev to 7500+ rpms, what psi and hp would my car make? I dunno we'll never know. Derek never posted an actual dyno online that I've seen. I think he was making over 400 tq at the wheels though if I remember right. I read that he made 481whp on pump gas @15 psi before he broke the 500whp barrier. Since that power was made with so much PSI, I think his timing was reduced a lot. I think Sam pushed my timing and listened for knock with the HKS knock amp with headphones.
key differences between his car and mine:
how do our timing maps compare??? we have no idea
my stock blower with 2.87 pulley vs his T-trim blower
his 8.8 CR vs my 10.3 CR pistons
his rods and pistons weigh slightly less than my stock ones
his ported heads with 5 angle valve job vs my stock heads
was Dsport running water injection at the time?
he had 3 inch intake piping and a really large intercooler vs my stock diameter piping and stock intercooler
he ran the stock crank pulley vs my 5 lb lighter KJR
G35's have steel driveshafts which are ?? lbs heavier than the 350Z's CF/steel driveshaft
he had a stock throttlebody, mine is a ported 350EVO
He had stock motor and diff mounts, I have solid - so no power is wasted rotating the engine and diff
I think he had heavier PIAA Super Rozza 19X9F 19X10R wheels and probably heavier tires vs my lightweight 18 inch SSR's and lighter competition tires
his stage 5 axels are larger diameter and heavier than my stock axels
we both have brembo kits, but my stoptech 2 piece aero rotors weigh 1 lb less each in the rear than his
he had an earlier crawford plenum vs my SSV with thermogasket
anyway I don't know what his exhaust, headers, or cats/test pipes setup was, but I have HPC coated crawford headers, 2.5 inch AAM HFC, and dual APS exhaust with X-pipe
I don't know Dsports exact setup or what his timing map was, but I believe he had:
Heads:
-M2 Race Systems Port & Polished Heads
-Ferrea Valvetrain
-Tomei Cams
-ARP Head Studs
Block:
-Cosworth Performance Machined and Balanced
-XS Engineering Assembled and Tuned
-Wiseco 8.8:1 CR Pistons
-Pauter Rods
-ARP Main Studs
-ATI Racing Damper
Supercharger:
-Vortech T-trim Supercharger
-XS Engineering Custom Piping
-31X11.2X4.5 Intercooler
-Custom 3" piping
-Custom cog setup off of the crank pulley
Fuel System:
-XS Engineering Custom Fuel System
-Aeromotive FPR
-Aeromotive Fuel Pump
-RC Engineering Injectors
Drivetrain:
-ATS triple clutch
-Driveshaft Shop Stage 5 Axles
-Kaaz LSD
-Crawford Z Intake Manifold
these parts I don't know what he has on his car:
-headers?
-cats/test pipes and what diameter?
-exhaust and what diameter etc?
mainly he reached his power by reving to 7500+ rpms. If I was able to rev to 7500+ rpms, what psi and hp would my car make? I dunno we'll never know. Derek never posted an actual dyno online that I've seen. I think he was making over 400 tq at the wheels though if I remember right. I read that he made 481whp on pump gas @15 psi before he broke the 500whp barrier. Since that power was made with so much PSI, I think his timing was reduced a lot. I think Sam pushed my timing and listened for knock with the HKS knock amp with headphones.
key differences between his car and mine:
how do our timing maps compare??? we have no idea
my stock blower with 2.87 pulley vs his T-trim blower
his 8.8 CR vs my 10.3 CR pistons
his rods and pistons weigh slightly less than my stock ones
his ported heads with 5 angle valve job vs my stock heads
was Dsport running water injection at the time?
he had 3 inch intake piping and a really large intercooler vs my stock diameter piping and stock intercooler
he ran the stock crank pulley vs my 5 lb lighter KJR
G35's have steel driveshafts which are ?? lbs heavier than the 350Z's CF/steel driveshaft
he had a stock throttlebody, mine is a ported 350EVO
He had stock motor and diff mounts, I have solid - so no power is wasted rotating the engine and diff
I think he had heavier PIAA Super Rozza 19X9F 19X10R wheels and probably heavier tires vs my lightweight 18 inch SSR's and lighter competition tires
his stage 5 axels are larger diameter and heavier than my stock axels
we both have brembo kits, but my stoptech 2 piece aero rotors weigh 1 lb less each in the rear than his
he had an earlier crawford plenum vs my SSV with thermogasket
anyway I don't know what his exhaust, headers, or cats/test pipes setup was, but I have HPC coated crawford headers, 2.5 inch AAM HFC, and dual APS exhaust with X-pipe
90% of the mods Sentry is comparing dont count for crap . But the ones that do....Dereks motor hands down, out does Sentry's . And you think that 1.5 more in compression and w/m is going to make double the whp per each psi ???????????
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: phoenix, AZ
Thanks Sam, the Dsport car had a very different curve than mine and easy to see that with it reving to 7500 rpms would easily create more peak power than mine. Kinda interesting how much less power is has below 4300 rpms than mine - I mean, 100 tq is a huge difference. Aside from Dsport's lower compression, I'm thinking the larger intake piping and intercooler possibly hinders airflow velocity until the blower is making a fair amount of boost in the mid/upper rpms. The torque curve on his car looks almost like a hp curve with how much it rises
My thinking has been if I had the 4.24 stroker kit and stage 3 or 4 heads, at that point I'd probably want to increase the size of the intercooler because that setup will pull in more overall air. And because the stroker and heads will have gobs more low end power, the loss in low end power with a larger piping and intercooler wouldn't make a noticable drop in low end power. But maybe a larger intercooler is perfectly fine for low end power and maybe the larger 3 inch diameter intake piping might have a larger effect of losing power at low rpms. The throttlebody is only so big so I'm not sure if there's any benefit at all with larger intake piping without a larger throttlebody and inlet to the intake manifold
I knew when I drove in, my AAM ECU flash and lack of consistent fuel, that my power above 5500 rpms was really messed up
I'm really glad I got the intake temp sensor for the Fcon - that seems to really have made a difference in knowing what the car is doing with W/M injection
anyway thanks again Sam for the explanation on the charts and the great tune!
My thinking has been if I had the 4.24 stroker kit and stage 3 or 4 heads, at that point I'd probably want to increase the size of the intercooler because that setup will pull in more overall air. And because the stroker and heads will have gobs more low end power, the loss in low end power with a larger piping and intercooler wouldn't make a noticable drop in low end power. But maybe a larger intercooler is perfectly fine for low end power and maybe the larger 3 inch diameter intake piping might have a larger effect of losing power at low rpms. The throttlebody is only so big so I'm not sure if there's any benefit at all with larger intake piping without a larger throttlebody and inlet to the intake manifold
I knew when I drove in, my AAM ECU flash and lack of consistent fuel, that my power above 5500 rpms was really messed up
I'm really glad I got the intake temp sensor for the Fcon - that seems to really have made a difference in knowing what the car is doing with W/M injection
anyway thanks again Sam for the explanation on the charts and the great tune!
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 24, 2007 at 11:54 AM.
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From: columbia md.
Power difference
Originally Posted by booger
90% of the mods Sentry is comparing dont count for crap . But the ones that do....Dereks motor hands down, out does Sentry's . And you think that 1.5 more in compression and w/m is going to make double the whp per each psi ???????????
Originally Posted by jpc350z
Booger , the temp difference of 22 deg C between the 2 cars inlet temps will lower the boost pressure (Boyles Law) seen in Sentry's car over Dsport's..The air density will be higher (slug of air). Not knowing what the exhaust is on Dsports it could also act as a restrictor ..Add to this the tuning capability of Fcon and lower C/R maybe just maybe the difference can be explained.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: phoenix, AZ
I'm not sure why it's so suprising when I think McDuck and Louzer made something around 470whp with their vortech too. They had slightly different setups though
anyway, I have a dyno appointment at dynocomp next wed morning.
anyway, I have a dyno appointment at dynocomp next wed morning.
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 24, 2007 at 04:11 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: phoenix, AZ
Sounds like the intake temps and timing are a pretty big deal of difference between the Dsport car and mine:
8 degree C intake temp = 46.4 degrees F on my car
28-30 degrees C = 82.4-86 degrees F on Dsport's car
so an almost 40 degree difference is roughtly 4% more power from cooler air. The long standing rule of thumb is that 10 degrees cooler air = 1% additional hp.
If you took my 477.8 whp run on 96 octane gas and divided that by 1.04% you come out to 459.4 whp @ 6600 rpms
If you took my 455.2 whp run on 91 octane gas and divided that by 1.04%, you come out to 437.7 whp @ 6600 rpms
...doesn't seem out of line to me if you then factore in more aggressive timing due to the lower intake temps.
I would have had like 90-110 whp less than Dsport's car if I didn't have water/meth injection and an intake temp sensor on the Fcon and aggressive timing
That Dsport 488hp run only reved to 6000 rpms on that chart. Had it gone to 6600 rpms, it'd be well over 500whp
I'm only making around 430whp at 6000 rpms...
Anyway, if the Dsport G35 was such a great solid performer, you have to wonder why Dsport canned the project and gave up. I mean, risking snapping belts all the time over 7000 rpms doesn't sound like much fun. As much as I think reving really high in theory sounds like a great way to do things with a centrifugal SC, this project proved it's a pretty difficult mechanical limitation to overcome when so much boost pressure is involved. Maybe if the engine flowed more or was bigger, the blower would have turned a little easier instead of having to compress the air so hard and it would have less stress on the belts?
8 degree C intake temp = 46.4 degrees F on my car
28-30 degrees C = 82.4-86 degrees F on Dsport's car
so an almost 40 degree difference is roughtly 4% more power from cooler air. The long standing rule of thumb is that 10 degrees cooler air = 1% additional hp.
If you took my 477.8 whp run on 96 octane gas and divided that by 1.04% you come out to 459.4 whp @ 6600 rpms
If you took my 455.2 whp run on 91 octane gas and divided that by 1.04%, you come out to 437.7 whp @ 6600 rpms
...doesn't seem out of line to me if you then factore in more aggressive timing due to the lower intake temps.
I would have had like 90-110 whp less than Dsport's car if I didn't have water/meth injection and an intake temp sensor on the Fcon and aggressive timing
That Dsport 488hp run only reved to 6000 rpms on that chart. Had it gone to 6600 rpms, it'd be well over 500whp
I'm only making around 430whp at 6000 rpms...
Anyway, if the Dsport G35 was such a great solid performer, you have to wonder why Dsport canned the project and gave up. I mean, risking snapping belts all the time over 7000 rpms doesn't sound like much fun. As much as I think reving really high in theory sounds like a great way to do things with a centrifugal SC, this project proved it's a pretty difficult mechanical limitation to overcome when so much boost pressure is involved. Maybe if the engine flowed more or was bigger, the blower would have turned a little easier instead of having to compress the air so hard and it would have less stress on the belts?
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 24, 2007 at 10:37 PM.
Ok..what ever . I have had both blowers on my car . I know and have felt the difference between the two . Every one seems to forget this . Hey but thats cool ! If some of you want to believe in fairy tails go ahead . thats cool ! What I do know....its all about some people's EGO'S and POCKET BOOKS and that is the bottom line . The Customer goes out the door with a big EGO and the shop scoops up the cash...thats cool ! But in this case...the shop looks kinda funny that it couldnt make much better whp all thru the curve with a better flowing motor and more CMF of air ...hmmm !!!!
Originally Posted by sentry65
Sounds like the intake temps and timing are a pretty big deal of difference between the Dsport car and mine:
8 degree C intake temp = 46.4 degrees F on my car
28-30 degrees C = 82.4-86 degrees F on Dsport's car
so an almost 40 degree difference is roughtly 4% more power from cooler air. The long standing rule of thumb is that 10 degrees cooler air = 1% additional hp.
If you took my 477.8 whp run on 96 octane gas and divided that by 1.04% you come out to 459.4 whp @ 6600 rpms
If you took my 455.2 whp run on 91 octane gas and divided that by 1.04%, you come out to 437.7 whp @ 6600 rpms
...doesn't seem out of line to me if you then factore in more aggressive timing due to the lower intake temps.
I would have had like 90-110 whp less than Dsport's car if I didn't have water/meth injection and an intake temp sensor on the Fcon and aggressive timing
8 degree C intake temp = 46.4 degrees F on my car
28-30 degrees C = 82.4-86 degrees F on Dsport's car
so an almost 40 degree difference is roughtly 4% more power from cooler air. The long standing rule of thumb is that 10 degrees cooler air = 1% additional hp.
If you took my 477.8 whp run on 96 octane gas and divided that by 1.04% you come out to 459.4 whp @ 6600 rpms
If you took my 455.2 whp run on 91 octane gas and divided that by 1.04%, you come out to 437.7 whp @ 6600 rpms
...doesn't seem out of line to me if you then factore in more aggressive timing due to the lower intake temps.
I would have had like 90-110 whp less than Dsport's car if I didn't have water/meth injection and an intake temp sensor on the Fcon and aggressive timing
hey neb and az isnt THAT far apart....settle it on the strip!! lol jk...we cant do that here...might get in trouble....shhhhh......sentry65 enjoy your car...its a monster!! hope u like my dyno graph from 350ztech..(atipowered)....looks like it comes up a bit short compared to yours ...lol .....SUPERCHARGED FTW!!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 9,722
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From: phoenix, AZ
oh yeah, sorry I never got back to you about your graph - thanks for sending it BTW.
It looks like some pretty good power levels for 6-7 psi. Your 10 psi dyno must run pretty strong
either way, you have a very nice 1/4 mile time with your car
It looks like some pretty good power levels for 6-7 psi. Your 10 psi dyno must run pretty strong
either way, you have a very nice 1/4 mile time with your car
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 9,722
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From: phoenix, AZ
an AWD dyno-dynamics, just like yours Sharif except not as new
That's the one I've been using for the past year and a half
except not as newThat's the one I've been using for the past year and a half
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 24, 2007 at 11:16 PM.
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with race gas, water injection, Fcon, bigger oil pan and oil cooler, and bigger radiator, I think it should pretty much be ok for awhile, but you never know. The torque level is fairly high for a vortech, but not near as high as a turbo setup, but there is some parasitic loss at work where the engine is working harder than the numbers show.
Despite the debate booger and I have had on how severe the parasitic loss is, Sam didn't seem too concerned with the parasitic loss and thought the engine should be ok for awhile due to the vortech's gradual torque curve etc, but that it probably wouldn't last a really long time or anything. I had another EGT sensor installed for the Fcon to monitor and compensate for if the EGT's went beyond a certain point. So however hard the engine really is working, it can partly be monitored and adjusted for with the Fcon
It'll partly depend on how often and hard I track it. I don't plan to rev over 6600 rpms and that's where Sam set the rev limiter which will actually shut off the coils instantly - not just cut fuel like the stock ECU. I think Sam said he was really concerned about adding in a lot of timing because that could lead to headlift, but after monitoring all the sensors and seeing how cool then intake charge was, I think he decided it would be fine to push the timing some
I plan to only use the 96 octane map for drag racing or occasional street use. On a road course I think I'd still use the 91 octane map with 101 octane gas because of how much heat can build up with a 20 minute session
People have run over 500 tq on the stock block before and pulled it off because they ran race gas until they either missed a shift or drove the car really really hard. Some people have reved beyond the stock redline with FI a lot and that might have contributed to ending their stock engine
I dunno we'll see. The car shouldn't detonate or preignite. And if it did, the Fcon has the knock amp and will react way faster than the stock ECU can with pull timing etc
I'd be perfectly happy to hold onto the stock block like this for awhile. But like with all FI, I really don't expect my engine to last forever. If I lose this engine, the built engine I'm looking at getting is going to have a pretty hefty price tag so I want to get as much life out of this one as I can. It currently has a little under 25k miles on it
Despite the debate booger and I have had on how severe the parasitic loss is, Sam didn't seem too concerned with the parasitic loss and thought the engine should be ok for awhile due to the vortech's gradual torque curve etc, but that it probably wouldn't last a really long time or anything. I had another EGT sensor installed for the Fcon to monitor and compensate for if the EGT's went beyond a certain point. So however hard the engine really is working, it can partly be monitored and adjusted for with the Fcon
It'll partly depend on how often and hard I track it. I don't plan to rev over 6600 rpms and that's where Sam set the rev limiter which will actually shut off the coils instantly - not just cut fuel like the stock ECU. I think Sam said he was really concerned about adding in a lot of timing because that could lead to headlift, but after monitoring all the sensors and seeing how cool then intake charge was, I think he decided it would be fine to push the timing some
I plan to only use the 96 octane map for drag racing or occasional street use. On a road course I think I'd still use the 91 octane map with 101 octane gas because of how much heat can build up with a 20 minute session
People have run over 500 tq on the stock block before and pulled it off because they ran race gas until they either missed a shift or drove the car really really hard. Some people have reved beyond the stock redline with FI a lot and that might have contributed to ending their stock engine
I dunno we'll see. The car shouldn't detonate or preignite. And if it did, the Fcon has the knock amp and will react way faster than the stock ECU can with pull timing etc
I'd be perfectly happy to hold onto the stock block like this for awhile. But like with all FI, I really don't expect my engine to last forever. If I lose this engine, the built engine I'm looking at getting is going to have a pretty hefty price tag so I want to get as much life out of this one as I can. It currently has a little under 25k miles on it
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 25, 2007 at 08:42 AM.
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I'm happy to report I absolutely have full traction in 2nd gear with just me in the car and no spare tire or luggage, and about 90% full tank of gas with my 455whp 91 octane map. I'll try my 96 octane map sometime when I fill up with all race gas
it was dry outside and about 85 degrees
I didn't have traction in 1st gear though and started spinning out somewhere around 5200 rpms - hard to tell exactly what rpm because of how fast it happens. The car doesn't go sideways or suddenly do anything crazy. The tires studder and then spin without any real drama. The car didn't change direction in the slightest.
Looks like with these tires, my best bet is to use most of the throttle up to redline, then shift to 2nd so I'm in the powerband after shifting. If I short shifted 1st gear, I'd probably end up at like 3000 rpms in 2nd gear and I'd be out of the vortech's main powerband
it was dry outside and about 85 degrees
I didn't have traction in 1st gear though and started spinning out somewhere around 5200 rpms - hard to tell exactly what rpm because of how fast it happens. The car doesn't go sideways or suddenly do anything crazy. The tires studder and then spin without any real drama. The car didn't change direction in the slightest.
Looks like with these tires, my best bet is to use most of the throttle up to redline, then shift to 2nd so I'm in the powerband after shifting. If I short shifted 1st gear, I'd probably end up at like 3000 rpms in 2nd gear and I'd be out of the vortech's main powerband
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 25, 2007 at 06:55 PM.
I would think if you had full traction in 2nd gear......unless you are using the F-con to help out . Getting FULL traction in 2nd would mean your not getting the trq. and power to the tires . With your 3.9 rear end and 455whp and all that trq. your dyno shows .You think hooking up in 2nd would NEVER happen . It wouldnt make any diff what tires , solid motor mounts , or any other mod you wanna claim helps . 455whp and 3.9 rear end , in 2nd . Means nothing but tire smoke to me .
Just to share my experience with traction issues with a turbo setup; at 400rwhp and very similar tq[8psi apprx], SAE corrected for 5000ft altitude (so even less actual hp and tq), I would easily spin my tires through 2nd gear, that was with 285/35/19's on 10.5 rims...
the tq onset on a supercharger is much less aggressive than a turbo setup, this may explain you ability to hook up in 2nd, but nevertheless, an intersting comparison in driveability- turbo vs supercharger
-TODD
the tq onset on a supercharger is much less aggressive than a turbo setup, this may explain you ability to hook up in 2nd, but nevertheless, an intersting comparison in driveability- turbo vs supercharger
-TODD
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I can't even see booger's posts anymore
Earlier I mentioned that I have an appointment scheduled for a dyno run at Dynocomp next wed morning which is the local shop I've been using for the last year and a half. That was the earliest they could fit me in. It's about 15 or so degrees warmer now than it was when I last dynoed two months ago in feb, but I think I should still hit around 440-450whp on their dyno with my 96 octane map.
Rich, the tuner at Dynocomp and me have always thought my car should reach 440-450whp on their dyno if if I didn't have my fuel pressure issues. I actually hit 430 at one time when the engine was cooled off and the car ran something like a full point too lean (like 12.5-13 A/F or so) but was ok because I was running half race gas. AAM's timing map on their ECU flash I don't think was nearly as aggressive as the timing maps that Sam@GTM tuned my car for with water injection etc. The thing that's up in the air is I did 380whp on Sam's dyno and at two different times (dec and feb) hit 420whp on dynocomp's dyno with the same setup before GTM worked on my car. So I dunno...
I did several 2nd gear pulls to redline yesterday and it was very sure-footed and hooked everytime. I actually felt like if I had more power or an even a slightly shorter gear ratio, that it would still hook
I think the main reasons it's getting full traction in 2nd are due to my nismo LSD, 295 wide competition tires, -1.6 degree rear camber, as well as the gradual torque curve of the SC
I only tried 1st gear once, and that was because it was obvious it wasn't going to hook at full throttle, even though it was completely controllable and stable when it lost traction. It's possible if I did a burn out and/or lowered my tire pressure to more like 30 psi (I keep my rears at 34-35 psi cold right now) that 1st gear might possibly hook, but who knows. People always talk about their car going sideways or fishtailing, but mine doesn't do that. I've done everything in my power to keep it from having any sudden loss of control. I have VDC permanently disabled via the fuse plug behind the shifter and Sam called me about that asking if I was ok with that and that I would also lose cruise control with the Fcon unless I wanted everything wired up a different way which had some other compromises and would take a little longer. I never use cruise control and hate traction control so that's how Sam wired it up
I could be wrong, but I think Alberto once said he had full traction in 1st gear with his 400whp TN ST setup with 285/35/19 KDW2 tires. Otherwise before I started going FI, I was assuming 1st gear being a 3.794 gear ratio would be way too aggressive to hold traction no matter what final drive you could put on it (that's available) and you'd have to either back off the throttle or short shift anyway. Knowing the vortech powerband, I figured I wanted to get the revs up ASAP so I could shift into 2nd gear sooner and the 3.9 FD would do that the best
a few months ago in December when it was 60 degrees outside I lost traction in 2nd gear somewhere around 5500 rpms. This was when my camber was -3 on my rear left tire, and -3.5 on my rear right tire. Not sure how one side got so far out of spec, maybe I hit something. This was before my alignment with needing SPC toe bolts to get the right rear tire in spec and also before I had the solid diff mounts and JIC camber and traction rods installed. The car REALLY felt MUCH more planted after that. Of course it's not 60 degrees outside anymore either so who knows
After I use up this tank of gas, I'll put in all race gas and try my 96 octane map and see if I get traction in 2nd. Maybe I'll make a video if the footage turns out ok. My tires don't chirp when I shift gears either, they just grab
(these attached pictures are older ones from last june when my rear camber was way out of spec)
Earlier I mentioned that I have an appointment scheduled for a dyno run at Dynocomp next wed morning which is the local shop I've been using for the last year and a half. That was the earliest they could fit me in. It's about 15 or so degrees warmer now than it was when I last dynoed two months ago in feb, but I think I should still hit around 440-450whp on their dyno with my 96 octane map.
Rich, the tuner at Dynocomp and me have always thought my car should reach 440-450whp on their dyno if if I didn't have my fuel pressure issues. I actually hit 430 at one time when the engine was cooled off and the car ran something like a full point too lean (like 12.5-13 A/F or so) but was ok because I was running half race gas. AAM's timing map on their ECU flash I don't think was nearly as aggressive as the timing maps that Sam@GTM tuned my car for with water injection etc. The thing that's up in the air is I did 380whp on Sam's dyno and at two different times (dec and feb) hit 420whp on dynocomp's dyno with the same setup before GTM worked on my car. So I dunno...
I did several 2nd gear pulls to redline yesterday and it was very sure-footed and hooked everytime. I actually felt like if I had more power or an even a slightly shorter gear ratio, that it would still hook
I think the main reasons it's getting full traction in 2nd are due to my nismo LSD, 295 wide competition tires, -1.6 degree rear camber, as well as the gradual torque curve of the SC
I only tried 1st gear once, and that was because it was obvious it wasn't going to hook at full throttle, even though it was completely controllable and stable when it lost traction. It's possible if I did a burn out and/or lowered my tire pressure to more like 30 psi (I keep my rears at 34-35 psi cold right now) that 1st gear might possibly hook, but who knows. People always talk about their car going sideways or fishtailing, but mine doesn't do that. I've done everything in my power to keep it from having any sudden loss of control. I have VDC permanently disabled via the fuse plug behind the shifter and Sam called me about that asking if I was ok with that and that I would also lose cruise control with the Fcon unless I wanted everything wired up a different way which had some other compromises and would take a little longer. I never use cruise control and hate traction control so that's how Sam wired it up
I could be wrong, but I think Alberto once said he had full traction in 1st gear with his 400whp TN ST setup with 285/35/19 KDW2 tires. Otherwise before I started going FI, I was assuming 1st gear being a 3.794 gear ratio would be way too aggressive to hold traction no matter what final drive you could put on it (that's available) and you'd have to either back off the throttle or short shift anyway. Knowing the vortech powerband, I figured I wanted to get the revs up ASAP so I could shift into 2nd gear sooner and the 3.9 FD would do that the best
a few months ago in December when it was 60 degrees outside I lost traction in 2nd gear somewhere around 5500 rpms. This was when my camber was -3 on my rear left tire, and -3.5 on my rear right tire. Not sure how one side got so far out of spec, maybe I hit something. This was before my alignment with needing SPC toe bolts to get the right rear tire in spec and also before I had the solid diff mounts and JIC camber and traction rods installed. The car REALLY felt MUCH more planted after that. Of course it's not 60 degrees outside anymore either so who knows
After I use up this tank of gas, I'll put in all race gas and try my 96 octane map and see if I get traction in 2nd. Maybe I'll make a video if the footage turns out ok. My tires don't chirp when I shift gears either, they just grab
(these attached pictures are older ones from last june when my rear camber was way out of spec)
Last edited by sentry65; May 5, 2007 at 08:43 PM.