DaveFunction2ND

iTrader: (8)

And that is where you and I differ. The feel of a car at partial throttle is more important to me then it is to you. I enjoy the turns and road racing much more the dragging or street racing. Partial throttle control and a smooth linear power band at all throttle angles makes me a better driver. 80% of my time is spent at partial throttle. More power that can be delivered at 51% throttle and a little less at 50% throttle gives me more control over the car.

Lets look at it this way. Drag racing is like 10% of the motorsports industry. Road racing, dirt track, and circle track are the other 90%. So not to bash even more but no its not always about whos behind me. The highest paid athlete in the world is a road racer. Road racing is what manufactures use to trickle technology down to street cars with. When did drag racing ever come close to that.

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

ford vs chevy, drag vs road course, DD vs DJ, whose is bigger??

its cool if you promote your shop. just dont put down other ones when you do it. directly or indirectly. you are stating your opinion as a fact...

we are ***** out WOT fast as hell drag racers, is there anything wrong with that?? nope. how many 51% throttle matches have you ran into on the street??

Mazinger Z

iTrader: (49)

I couldn't agree with this more. Although I love what a car could do in a 1/4 mile run, I'm more interested in how that power could be used on a road track. I'm not trying to bash drag racers but in all honesty, that has never interested me. Like the OP said in the above post, a smooth power delivery is control over your car in a road course. Again, not bashing drag racers but if all cars were tuned just for the 1/4 mile times we'd all be spinning out left and right on the street.

Sam@GTM

iTrader: (7)

A good tuner can tune a car perfectly with and without a dyno (on the road),weather its a load dyno or inertia. the dyno is only a tool to accomplishes a job .it takes a lot more talent and experience to tune a car on inertia dyno verses tuning on a load dyno .both tuning method require road tuning afterward ,you can never duplicate road conditions ever on nether dynos,the load dyno will help inexperienced tuner to do a better job, on the other hand inexperienced tuner can get in trouble really fast on a inertia dyno if he releases the car with out road tuning. your self stated even on a load dyno raod tuning is required . so how can you make this silly statement .and if you are so not into guessing why are you not tuning with and f con and further more you are not using a head phones tuning a stock block to 18 PSI .this is exactly what I call guessing .

I just wish people will really think before they make such statement .I call it lack of experience .

Devil Z

iTrader: (6)

Subscribing.

Rogue350z

iTrader: (10)

Subscribing.

Devil Z

iTrader: (6)

This drama is better than watching The O.C.

Rogue350z

iTrader: (10)

I would agree...

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

couldnt of said it better...

jpc350z

Dave,, could you please explain to me why when you worked at AAM and saw my car tuned (several times) on there DJ (by mike) where a street tune was not conducted you did not advise me to the fact that you believed street tuning was a absolute must. Thanks John C.

Q45tech

So easy to modify the dynojet [or other] software to show SAE or any correction factor to be what you want...............miscalibrate barometer or temp or humidity standards to make your dyno read better to sell your tuning services.

Unless you see every line of code you can not prove accuracy.

A keystroke can add a magic 1,2,3,4,5 % even 10% an noone is the wiser.

Usually happens when bank payment is overdue?

The more times you pay for dyno tuning services the higher the chart gets is usually the reality.

Not saying everyone or anyone does it just that it is easy.

coachk

iTrader: (21)

Subscribing....Because Jeremy's going to be tuning my car in a couple of weeks on a DJ.After talking with him I have no doubt he is an EXPERIENCED tuner.

Dynosty

iTrader: (27)

I have tuned on both, and a DD is definitely the ticket for tuning drive ability. Being able to use a hand operated dial to hold the car at any RPM and then use the throttle to tune all the load points (vacuum to full boost) at each rpm interval you specify nails the map out very well. Many repeated pulls on a dynojet or the street would slowly accomplish the same thing - as I have done that in the past.

For those who don't care about drive ability, and just want all-out drag tune, the dyno still wins if you are making big power. A couple reasons that immediately come to mind:
1. danger - My first tune on my drag car was done on the interstate late late into the night when there was little traffic. I would load up the car with laptop and a friend to help watch the variables, and hit the interstate. At high power levels, you will need to pull in high gears to get good readings and not fight traction - so the MPH gets scary not to mention being illegal.
2. power - While you can dial in AFR on the road, max power is not so easy to obtain. All you can do is overly-retard the timing to make it 'safe'. On a dyno you can dial in timing to where it makes the most power and take a little back out for a margin of safety. In this situation you will make more power and be safer than your overly retarded guess on the street.

Just my , but what do I know - my street car (SC300) only traps 155+.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

I think what Dave is saying, is that the DD or any load based dyno, is a more precise instrument for tuning the engine across all the various load points. Only a load based dyno, can hold the load in a given cell, and give instanteous and real-time power/trq readings..WHILE changes are being made to the tune. Of course, with enough experience, you can work around the limitations of the DJ, and develop a very good workable tune. But as an instrument, a load based dyno is better in this respect. DJ also agrees with this, and offers steady state tuning options (retarders) for their dynos as well.

At the end of the day, dynos are just instruments for tuning and power measurement, and the job is always in the hands of the tuner...not the dyno.

Philthy

iTrader: (3)

The one thing that Dave did wrong in this thread (IMO) was to mention a specific dyno name... If he kept the topic load base vs. inertia maybe a bunch of people wouldn't have gotten offended or sensitive.

Is there even a question that a load base isn't superior to an inertia dyno? We need to embrace technology...

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

LOL

In the end I think we all have our preferences. As mentioned a dyno is a tool. Its there to aide the shop/tuner in making a car ready for the street (tuning session). Some prefer load based dynos. I know I do. I've watched the head of R&D at Turbonetics tuning cars (on a Dynapack in this case) hold the car at a specific engine speed and modulate the throttle to, as Dave said, check the AFR and timing curve across several throttle and load points. In the end its just another measure to get yourself better prepared for the street tuning/finessing that still needs to be done. I don't think anyone disagrees that no dyno or simulation can 100% replicate the real world conditions you see on the street. Luckily here in Cali we have a variety of terrain to test cars on. Mountains, valleys, curvacious roads, etc. For some tuners the Dynojet is valuable in getting the most dangerous portions of the map (WOT, high boost) ironed out and they use their experience to fill in the gaps until the street tune. The bottom line is as long as due dilligence is done and the tune is solid with everything verified in real world secnarios it doesn't matter what dyno you use or prefer. The load based may let you get you more of the map hammered out in preparation for street tuning but since the street tune and results is the final line it doesn't matter whether you did it via load based dyno, or experience with the platform you are tuning.

Trav4011

iTrader: (2)

Having tuned a bunch of standalone powered vehicles.. I will say that I prefer a load based dyno over the inertia based.. You just can't nail driveability on a dynojet, like you can on a Mustang or DD dyno. Making big power is easy, and can be done on either dyno.. fine tuning is what takes the longest.. and if you can't sit the engine at a certain RPM to tune out a dead spot, then, you make tuning driveability a "guess" at best..

This is my opinion, based on years of tuning..

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

I have a questions for all the shops that tune on a DJ. If you were buying a new dyno today and money was not an issue which dyno would you buy?

TENGAI

iTrader: (5)

Humor me on this thought:

What if for a real world test, you have the same tuner / same car do a direct comparisson based on the following...

- Tune the car on a DD, then take the car to the streets and log the "real world" driving tune. DON'T augment the tune, just log the results.
- Then, wipe out the tune and start over on a DJ dyno. Dial it in as close as possible on the dyno and then head out to the streets for another logging session.
- NOW - compare where the tune is between the DD and DJ.

Is it safe to say that the DD will get you a more "refined" tune than the DJ without using a street tuning session? Would there be more street tune work involved in the DJ scenario? This seems to be the debate point, but we have yet to see a situation where the above measure has been completed. Until then, it's a big arguement with facts mixed in with speculation.

Just my Any input?

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

awd dynojet with eddy current without a doubt