taurran

iTrader: (18)

I don't want to stir up anything, but peak numbers mean little when it comes to tuning. Remember the area under the curve?

Oh, and there's also things like weight and weight reduction.

I think what Jeremy is trying to say is that he's interested in pushing the envelope when it comes to speed and real world application. This means trying things that no one else has done before and providing solutions that makes for faster cars for lower cost. What the community at large believes is "required" or "safe" may not be an absolute reality if going another route provides the same results with the same level of "safety".

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

Can the power curves on dynos be altered as well? - NO they can't.

I know area under the curve, but assuming the cars have good tunes with nice curves done by different tuners shouldn't the cars then be equal.

doug

iTrader: (5)

i guess you missed the whole ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL point

blasian

iTrader: (29)

+1

Seems to be a big reason why the 07 Z's are beating 03-06 stock times.

Guess I missed that...

IIQuickSilverII

iTrader: (13)

well their peak is also better on the 07s.. they put like 268swhp and the 03-06s put like 238-240whp

taurran

iTrader: (18)

Then you're living in a dream world. In the real world, all things are never equal. I guess you'd be correct if this were ever the case, but you're oversimplifying an equation that will never be exactly duplicated. There are always more variables at play.

One car could be running more timing, more boost, a leaner mixture, etc. This means that one car could be making the same power but be more prone to detonation, especially under the heavy load of racing.

There's also gearing, weight, and obviously driver...

But we're getting a bit off topic here. What happened to the fuel system discussion?

blasian

iTrader: (29)

Yeah I know that already, just didn't think that would be enough peak for a .5 second increase. Thats all.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

I disagree. People with load based dyno's can apply load and start a run at 2500rpm's with a few lbs of boost built-then post crack ***** non real world dyno graphs-aka Scotts Performance (remember bigbris 700+whp claim?) and VRT's 500whp 893ft/lb cracked out dyno numbers. That is all

doug

iTrader: (5)

you're missing his point..

his point is.. to Jeremy's comment about building real fast cars down in FL as oppose to CA, NJ, GA and so on..

we know everything won't be equal.. but he saying why make the claim about the real fast cars in FL to suggest the other shops arn't making fast cars

IIQuickSilverII

iTrader: (13)

links to that discussion?

maximumsportZ

iTrader: (25)

Doug, just know I can drive better than you, that is all.

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

i didnt say anything else about any other shops cars, i just said that ours are fast, proven on something that cant be altered. i really dont care what any other shop is doing dynos can be altered and 1/4 mile times cant, so we are real world proving that they are fast...



we are pushing limits and pushing the limits every day with our personal cars so we can safely provide more power in our customers cars, my tech drives around now on a stock block TN ST car pushing 11 psi in 4th gear, it makes 12 in fifth, daily driven, pushing over 450 foot pounds of tq every time he hits the gas. im sure his car will blow here soon as we keep increasing the boost levels, but hopefully it will run high 10s first....

taurran

iTrader: (18)

I know all the big name shops build fast cars.

Maybe he's saying that some have more timeslips to back up the dyno numbers?

After all, that is what shows how fast a car really is. Building a high hp fast car is mostly geared towards straight line acceleration.

We all know that for a road racer it's more about balance, handling, power delivery, and reliability than insane power. And really, how many people actually road race their high hp FI'd cars here. Hardly any.


Anyway, the last thing I want to do is be caught in a shop vs shop argument. I'm just saying that it's possible for a car to be "faster" with lower peak dyno numbers.

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

+1. That's exactly my point. I think Sam knows how to build and tune fast cars. Chit his probably been at it since before Jeremy was even born.

doug

iTrader: (5)

Chris.. just know i can ride better than you, that is all

taurran

iTrader: (18)

That still doesn't mean that a fuel system is required on a stock motor car. I wouldn't believe much I heard on this forum regarding return fuel systems. Most of these people would pour a gallon of milk in with each refill of gas if their local performance shop said it was "required".

doug

iTrader: (5)

if my local performance shop told me urine was octane booster and i could running high boost and they could prove it.. guess where i would wizz on a daily basis?

98intrigue

iTrader: (16)

IIQuickSilverII

iTrader: (13)

well put..damm bandwagon hoppers

personally i run ~~400 whp... did i need a fuel return system...no

so did i get one, yes.... why

1-safety
2-i knew i was goin to run more boost in teh future (build engine)

taurran

iTrader: (18)

True, if it were proven.

It's been proven in Z's and other performance cars alike that returnless fuel systems work in boosted appliations to a point. Jeremy has just restated this fact and noted that he has multiple cars as proof. This is also evident from the 100's of turbonetics cars on the road that are running in accepible AFR's, or even rich, on 380cc injectors.

Still, people won't believe it works due to the fact that some shops claimed it's "required".