Turbonetics Single Turbo graphs inside (stock block, C16)
06-17-2007, 01:53 PM
#81
Since you guys are talking about EMS and the like I seen that some of you are also running a Haltech E11 system. How does this compare to the units mentioned above.
Also what is the limit on 93 octane boost on a turbonetic single turbo system. This is with or w/o a meth injection kit?
Thanks
Also what is the limit on 93 octane boost on a turbonetic single turbo system. This is with or w/o a meth injection kit?
Thanks
06-17-2007, 01:54 PM
#82
Registered User
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: .
Posts: 9,482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by El Verdugo
Since you guys are talking about EMS and the like I seen that some of you are also running a Haltech E11 system. How does this compare to the units mentioned above.
Also what is the limit on 93 octane boost on a turbonetic single turbo system. This is with or w/o a meth injection kit?
Thanks
Also what is the limit on 93 octane boost on a turbonetic single turbo system. This is with or w/o a meth injection kit?
Thanks
I don't think anyone on here is running that EMS. Mostly it's just UTEC/FCON/Unichip/EU, and maybe one or two with an AEM setup.
I wouldn't run the Turbonetics ST anywhere over 9-10psi on a stock motor on a regular basis unless you were just trying to push the limits like PF was.
06-17-2007, 02:00 PM
#83
Registered User
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 1,453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Audible Mayhem
just that a certain person on the east coast ran 16-19 psi in his personal car for a while with a utec and then bashed utec as soon as he became HKS prodealer...
06-17-2007, 03:51 PM
#84
just contridicting yourself to sell your new product isnt the way i think. some people are all about money. i wish someone would pay my bills and i would do this all for free. i LOVE racing cars, i love motors and engines!! NOTHING compares to going 130+ down a quarter mile track to me. its not for the money, i just speak the truth, actually, i think i talk people out of buying more stuff than i talk into, ANYone that knows me personally will attest to this....
06-17-2007, 03:53 PM
#85
Registered User
iTrader: (55)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ORLANDO, FL
Posts: 5,276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No 2 step, no full control except your tuner, no VTC control function. It's only charged like a true standalone system w/ all the bells and whistles..
I don't see what they hype is w/ the FCON.
Anyways how about this stays on topic...
I don't see what they hype is w/ the FCON.
Anyways how about this stays on topic...
06-17-2007, 04:03 PM
#86
CHRIS (350) FTL
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: the gay area, ca (I miss LA)
Posts: 4,482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Audible Mayhem
videos, time slips and lots of trash talking will be posted tomorrow!!!
06-17-2007, 04:18 PM
#91
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by taurran
I mean, really, the FCON is a waste of money, in my opinion, too. The only thing is it's basically the only readily available standalone on the market. I believe will be more options available soon that will make the FCON obsolete (in both price and performance).
06-17-2007, 04:21 PM
#92
Originally Posted by Audible Mayhem
yeah man, if it works, thats all that matters. i was running a utec on my personal car up to around 21-22 psi when i blew out the cometic headgasket. no problem due to the utec though.
we will see if the utecs can keep up here soon...
utec = less than 1/3 the cost of FCON, they really arent comparable..
we will see if the utecs can keep up here soon...
utec = less than 1/3 the cost of FCON, they really arent comparable..
If it works that's all that matters? What are your benchmarks for if it works? That the car starts and runs, that there is no flames coming out of the exhaust? Or is it just that the afr is reasonable on the dyno (at full load)? My point here is that you have to delve much more deeply into the basic engineering of the system to know if it works. What about everything in between idle and full boost?
If an EMS has ONLY 10 load sites (10-100% in 10% increments), and you were running 21-22 psi of boost with this UTEC, that means that everything between between -10psi (lowest load at idle, typicaly) to +22 psi (your boost) was described by 10 load sites. That means, that you have a staggering 3.2 psi per division of resolution? And that's assuming you are using all ten columns for your 22psi boost level. How do you fine tune the boost transition, and the boost area equivalent to 4v/4500rpm MAF crossover (where the stock ecu goes from open loop to closed loop and the VCT sees major changes), etc etc... How do you scale large injectors with MAF offset without bringing it huge long term trims in the stock ECU? You can't even call this s true standalone. Not to mention altitude compensation, IAT timing AND air/fuel compensation.... Or do you? I don't know how you can!
If you want to drive your car at nothing but idle and full boost, then the UTEC has a chance of working well. Otherwise, i.e. on a perfectly balanced/tuned street car, there is NO chance in hell that it can. You want a car that works WELL, really well, so that you can drive it aggressively (even on an aggressive tune), and trust the precision of the Fcon, and not jsut because of the resolution, but the overall maturity of the product and how well it works.
Fcon is a TRUE standalone with FULL fuel and timing control, i mean complete with compensations for altitude, EGT, fuel pressure, as well as oil/water temp (plus other) safeguards built-in. I maintain that it is absolutely necessary to have a very high quality, sufficient resolution unit..think of the OEMs (16 load sites for N/A!). Do you not think that this is for a reason.
My reason for posting this is that noone walks away from this thread with the idea that a 10-load site EMS can work well on anything over 4-5psi of boost. It just can't. Please do the research and see what is really required.
06-17-2007, 04:24 PM
#93
Originally Posted by Zexy
No 2 step, no full control except your tuner, no VTC control function. It's only charged like a true standalone system w/ all the bells and whistles..
I don't see what they hype is w/ the FCON.
Anyways how about this stays on topic...
I don't see what they hype is w/ the FCON.
Anyways how about this stays on topic...
There was a larghe discussion on VTC on one of the forums and the truth is that on our cars, VTC alteration makes little to no difference, not to mention that I would trust almost NO ONE to mess with the VTC on my engine.
C'mon guys, let's not compare apples to oranges.
06-17-2007, 04:32 PM
#94
in my statement that you quoted AND once again below, i said they arent comparable, and they shouldnt even be used in the same sentence. the utec works just fine for a 800 dollars street value piggy back computer.
if you want to spend more then there are tons of options out there. i never once made this into any kind of EM debate. i dont see why anyone is making this into that...
it is apples to oranges, a good tuner can tune the utec to hold up to 30 psi with no issues, its all about averaging and correct values in the proper load sites. i have tuned many many many many cars with utecs from 5 to 22 psi and they all run just fine. from a start, idle, part throttle, full boost, etc....
if you want to spend more then there are tons of options out there. i never once made this into any kind of EM debate. i dont see why anyone is making this into that...
it is apples to oranges, a good tuner can tune the utec to hold up to 30 psi with no issues, its all about averaging and correct values in the proper load sites. i have tuned many many many many cars with utecs from 5 to 22 psi and they all run just fine. from a start, idle, part throttle, full boost, etc....
06-17-2007, 04:35 PM
#96
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by GurgenPB
Wow, this is pretty surprising coming from a tuner?
If it works that's all that matters? What are your benchmarks for if it works? That the car starts and runs, that there is no flames coming out of the exhaust? Or is it just that the afr is reasonable on the dyno (at full load)? My point here is that you have to delve much more deeply into the basic engineering of the system to know if it works. What about everything in between idle and full boost?
If an EMS has ONLY 10 load sites (10-100% in 10% increments), and you were running 21-22 psi of boost with this UTEC, that means that everything between between -10psi (lowest load at idle, typicaly) to +22 psi (your boost) was described by 10 load sites. That means, that you have a staggering 3.2 psi per division of resolution? And that's assuming you are using all ten columns for your 22psi boost level. How do you fine tune the boost transition, and the boost area equivalent to 4v/4500rpm MAF crossover (where the stock ecu goes from open loop to closed loop and the VCT sees major changes), etc etc... How do you scale large injectors with MAF offset without bringing it huge long term trims in the stock ECU? You can't even call this s true standalone. Not to mention altitude compensation, IAT timing AND air/fuel compensation.... Or do you? I don't know how you can!
If you want to drive your car at nothing but idle and full boost, then the UTEC has a chance of working well. Otherwise, i.e. on a perfectly balanced/tuned street car, there is NO chance in hell that it can. You want a car that works WELL, really well, so that you can drive it aggressively (even on an aggressive tune), and trust the precision of the Fcon, and not jsut because of the resolution, but the overall maturity of the product and how well it works.
Fcon is a TRUE standalone with FULL fuel and timing control, i mean complete with compensations for altitude, EGT, fuel pressure, as well as oil/water temp (plus other) safeguards built-in. I maintain that it is absolutely necessary to have a very high quality, sufficient resolution unit..think of the OEMs (16 load sites for N/A!). Do you not think that this is for a reason.
My reason for posting this is that noone walks away from this thread with the idea that a 10-load site EMS can work well on anything over 4-5psi of boost. It just can't. Please do the research and see what is really required.
If it works that's all that matters? What are your benchmarks for if it works? That the car starts and runs, that there is no flames coming out of the exhaust? Or is it just that the afr is reasonable on the dyno (at full load)? My point here is that you have to delve much more deeply into the basic engineering of the system to know if it works. What about everything in between idle and full boost?
If an EMS has ONLY 10 load sites (10-100% in 10% increments), and you were running 21-22 psi of boost with this UTEC, that means that everything between between -10psi (lowest load at idle, typicaly) to +22 psi (your boost) was described by 10 load sites. That means, that you have a staggering 3.2 psi per division of resolution? And that's assuming you are using all ten columns for your 22psi boost level. How do you fine tune the boost transition, and the boost area equivalent to 4v/4500rpm MAF crossover (where the stock ecu goes from open loop to closed loop and the VCT sees major changes), etc etc... How do you scale large injectors with MAF offset without bringing it huge long term trims in the stock ECU? You can't even call this s true standalone. Not to mention altitude compensation, IAT timing AND air/fuel compensation.... Or do you? I don't know how you can!
If you want to drive your car at nothing but idle and full boost, then the UTEC has a chance of working well. Otherwise, i.e. on a perfectly balanced/tuned street car, there is NO chance in hell that it can. You want a car that works WELL, really well, so that you can drive it aggressively (even on an aggressive tune), and trust the precision of the Fcon, and not jsut because of the resolution, but the overall maturity of the product and how well it works.
Fcon is a TRUE standalone with FULL fuel and timing control, i mean complete with compensations for altitude, EGT, fuel pressure, as well as oil/water temp (plus other) safeguards built-in. I maintain that it is absolutely necessary to have a very high quality, sufficient resolution unit..think of the OEMs (16 load sites for N/A!). Do you not think that this is for a reason.
My reason for posting this is that noone walks away from this thread with the idea that a 10-load site EMS can work well on anything over 4-5psi of boost. It just can't. Please do the research and see what is really required.
well said
06-17-2007, 04:35 PM
#97
Registered User
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: .
Posts: 9,482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by VQ-TECH
Based on your above statement, it is obvious that your knowledge in engine management is very limited.
Based on your above statement, you're comfortable paying ridiculously overpriced fees and locking into a huge money-making scheme that HKS has built. I can see a day very soon when all these FCON owners will be kicking themselves for spending more money on a standalone that is subpar and also ridiculously overpriced.
<insert HKS-nutswing emoticon>
06-17-2007, 04:36 PM
#99
also, you need to do just a little more homework before you start into me.
i can set the utec up to start at 5 psi and run to 22 psi, now that is 1.7 psi per properly averaged psi. now, yes there are systems that have a lot more resolution on them yes, but for 800 dollars, it works just fine...
this is stupid anyways, who turned this into another EM debate.
ALL our cars are fast here at my shop and track proven, what more do you want ??
EDIT, now you are putting words in my mouth, i said "It works, meaning its an inexpensive piggyback that works, thats all i said"
i can set the utec up to start at 5 psi and run to 22 psi, now that is 1.7 psi per properly averaged psi. now, yes there are systems that have a lot more resolution on them yes, but for 800 dollars, it works just fine...
this is stupid anyways, who turned this into another EM debate.
ALL our cars are fast here at my shop and track proven, what more do you want ??
EDIT, now you are putting words in my mouth, i said "It works, meaning its an inexpensive piggyback that works, thats all i said"