So... thought I would share. Pics are worth a thousand words
07-01-2007, 06:36 AM
#1
So... thought I would share. Pics are worth a thousand words
and most of them are four letter words. Found a couple pieces of ringland in my oil pan when I ripped into the motor to resolve my headlift. Upon further investigation I found what you see below. a single piston, all other 5 are fine. Car ran 100% fine beyond the headlift issue, so in a sense I am lucky to have found this.
Going forward, inspection of the rods and crank, new pistons, and cams w/some light headwork
These are standard arias pistons:
Going forward, inspection of the rods and crank, new pistons, and cams w/some light headwork
These are standard arias pistons:
07-01-2007, 06:45 AM
#3
Got Track!!!!!
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How much boost were you running when you noticed the head lift issue?
Good Luck getting that think back together. This motor build down time really sucks.
Good Luck getting that think back together. This motor build down time really sucks.
07-01-2007, 06:46 AM
#4
Originally Posted by westpak
WOW I can imagine the 4 letter words and more, been there.
What caused it? ring gap too small?
What caused it? ring gap too small?
07-01-2007, 06:46 AM
#5
Originally Posted by eagletanggreen
How much boost were you running when you noticed the head lift issue?
Good Luck getting that think back together. This motor build down time really sucks.
Good Luck getting that think back together. This motor build down time really sucks.
Started getting signs of headlift when I was pulling 17 psi at redline.
07-01-2007, 06:56 AM
#6
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I would be surprised if it is too much boost, unless it is too much timing with the boost, the pistons should be able to handle 17 psi, as for the extreme ED pistons are basically drag application pistons used for street cars and those guys see 50 psi and more.
I know it is a different application but the Japtrix EVO with Wiseco pistons is tuned to 30 psi and no issues.
I know it is a different application but the Japtrix EVO with Wiseco pistons is tuned to 30 psi and no issues.
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07-01-2007, 07:01 AM
#8
Originally Posted by westpak
I would be surprised if it is too much boost, unless it is too much timing with the boost, the pistons should be able to handle 17 psi, as for the extreme ED pistons are basically drag application pistons used for street cars and those guys see 50 psi and more.
I know it is a different application but the Japtrix EVO with Wiseco pistons is tuned to 30 psi and no issues.
I know it is a different application but the Japtrix EVO with Wiseco pistons is tuned to 30 psi and no issues.
07-01-2007, 07:04 AM
#10
Originally Posted by doug
Hope everything works out for you Aaron.. kinda strange standard Arias pistons are weak... and stock VQ Pistons never had a problem only the rods
No worries, a little machine work and a new set of pistons and we will be rolling again. this is basically another couple hrs of work to pull the lower end apart because we already had the heads off, so relatively speaking, little added cost there
07-01-2007, 07:10 AM
#11
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It's DEFINITELY a tuning problem. VQ guys need to stop worrying so damn much about peak torque and getting it to come on so fast and hard... and worry more about keeping their motors alive. Put a nice smooth dip in timing where you make peak torque and wherever boost builds/rpm rises very quickly and the motor will last you longer and the power will probably even be easier to handle.
07-01-2007, 07:13 AM
#12
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please do let us know the condition of those eagle rods... there's still some debate on the power level those things can take... i think we're good to much more than we're pushing now...but, i could be wrong...
07-01-2007, 07:37 AM
#13
Originally Posted by r@mon
It's DEFINITELY a tuning problem. VQ guys need to stop worrying so damn much about peak torque and getting it to come on so fast and hard... and worry more about keeping their motors alive. Put a nice smooth dip in timing where you make peak torque and wherever boost builds/rpm rises very quickly and the motor will last you longer and the power will probably even be easier to handle.
You are welcome to discuss tuning strategies with my tuner. I don't know your background, but I know my tuner is well versed in tuning the VQ
07-01-2007, 10:36 AM
#15
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Originally Posted by Zivman
Talking with a few different people/shops, I am thinking too much boost paired with too weak of a piston. what you see above maybe the exact reason we now have arias ED pistons
07-01-2007, 01:31 PM
#17
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
There are pro race teams running FAR more boost than 17 psi on pistons other than the Arias Extremes FYI...I thinkthere are other factors that may have caused your failure.
Sam
GT MOTORSPORTS
Last edited by Sam@GTM; 07-01-2007 at 01:40 PM.
07-01-2007, 01:51 PM
#18
Originally Posted by westpak
I would be surprised if it is too much boost, unless it is too much timing with the boost, the pistons should be able to handle 17 psi, as for the extreme ED pistons are basically drag application pistons used for street cars and those guys see 50 psi and more.
I know it is a different application but the Japtrix EVO with Wiseco pistons is tuned to 30 psi and no issues.
I know it is a different application but the Japtrix EVO with Wiseco pistons is tuned to 30 psi and no issues.
SAM
GT MOTORSPORTS
Last edited by Sam@GTM; 07-01-2007 at 02:02 PM.
07-01-2007, 02:45 PM
#19
Originally Posted by Sam@GTM
Agree,broken ring land on a froged piston.you got to look deeper into the cause .i don't think it is a week piston .
Sam
GT MOTORSPORTS
Sam
GT MOTORSPORTS
07-01-2007, 02:51 PM
#20
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
There are pro race teams running FAR more boost than 17 psi on pistons other than the Arias Extremes FYI...I thinkthere are other factors that may have caused your failure.
Certainly, tuning could have something to do with, but IMHO, you need a stronger piston that is better at the limit, which gives you a larger margin for error....particularly when the car has left the shop, and now is in the hands of the customer, with all the variability that can come with that.
Last edited by Sharif@Forged; 07-01-2007 at 02:54 PM.