There's no point arguing about this guys - trying to match engineering formulas to real world experience can be a worthwhile exercise if everyone is open minded about where the disconnect lies.

For those of you who have the book on the shelf, pg 200 of "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell explains turbo selection and basically reiterates what Gurgen has tried to communicate in his posts. The graph I come up with looks different that yours Gurgen but I think I've got an error (working on it!).

If real world experience contradicts the mathematics, then there's a good reason for it. Just being stubborn and saying Gurgen is wrong isn't very helpful...

Now I think what you guys are saying is that you can work off of the efficiency island of the turbo (which might not make it optimally paired for the engine) but might allow you to make power beyond what might otherwise be possible if you can account for issues like backpressure, excessive temperature rise from the compressed air charge, cooling, detonation, etc. Is this correct?

The accomplishments in this thread are ground breaking and truly exciting - no question. There's also a lot for all of us to learn!

 

oh jeez, its another julian vs. phil type situation... It'll turn ugly, blah blah than be kewl. At the end of the day who cares.

 

I guess you'd only care if you want to understand how and why turbo selection can help you reach your desired goal. There's a lot of good information in this thread! If you don't care, why post?

 

Ummm, you're not trying? That was uncalled for. Too bad because it makes me question your credibility; and what I thought might have been some good insight into turbocharger selection.

EDIT: So you're actually from Intense Motorsports masquerading under a different name? So that you can get away with posts like this without hurting business? Poor form to say the least. I hope it's not true but an IP address match is pretty hard to refute. And QuickSilver, I wouldn't be too quick to call someone "padawan", when you're posting in support after every IP/Joeschmoe post... Back on topic: I'd really like to see the dyno with the RPMs and am very curious to identify the cause for the power drop off...

 

is anyone out there? btw what size/kind of converter?could it be ballooning?that could definitally explain that curve falling off

 

Well Said, Hope this can come to an end now.

SAM

GT Motorsports

 

I want to see 40psi at 9k

 

rcdash,

Thanks very much for the support.. I know that there are lot of people listening, they tell me so personally via PMs, phone calls. That's the only reason I do do it.

As far as the graph, some of the other books, like Street Turbocharging (and the famous yet a bit more esoteric MacInnes book) have better flow (no pun intended) and explanations of the compressor math and their assocaited examples.

PM me if you need advise, etc...

Thanks! And let's just put this to rest.

 

damn i missed this thread

 

Hey guys I apologize for my reply, sometimes I can get ahead of myself. Gurgen you to as well, Injected's project is great and will be great to see progress as it comes together, I think it has one of the most potent setups on any Z car at the moment and will be exciting to watch run down the track 8s perhaps

 

HAL that is SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

every post did not had any shop vs shop situation, just 2 people guergen and joe until you brought it up though, thanks to the help of someone ovbiously... take some responsability... nobody involved you in that discussion

 

Agreed.. the point was that this goeS BOTH WAYS!!! re read the thread and you will see who was being stubborn in the first place

 

its excellent you know of all this... just don't discount work by people who have been working on this for years and you just coming here acting like you know more than some of the people who have been working ..in this particular topic...on small and big engines and twin and largo single turbo applications for years and they know all this "in a perfect world" case like you but are more humble/respectful and can better match the theory to the reality unlike you. Not dismissing you.. I alreayd told you a "thanks" and said your info posted is great... but as i told rcdash, it goes "both ways."


enough of this...

 

nobody called you or your shop into all this for you to stir it up, call in you hook ups for the ip check, and make it a shop vs shop thing SIR.....funny how you came out of "left field" on all this.. if anything the change of name was to help make sure this is not a shop vs shop thing, but just 2 people arguing over a point in which you very well know that the theory goes in hand with the experience(as any engineer knowns), and your friend was dissing on other shops work with just one of the 2(theory only).

 

The turbo information is golden, yes. Nor am i discounting how useful this thread will be for others, but to lose sleep (everything seems to be resolved now) because of a minor debate was my whole point...

 

werd


hopefully we see an update by injected here soon

 

Its called a public forum.... Grammar > you

 

i wish ip would enter this public forum.

 

I think we can move past it. I know that IP is not really active on these forums.

That being said, I would not want anyone to be mislead by a given setup. IP has the full right not to post their full dyno, and perhaps they are still planning to. Yes, 1000whp is an achievement, but just like anything else, evaluation of true mastery of a setup must involve scrutiny, that's where I come from. And that involves the flow analysis and power/torque production over the entire RPM range. Vendors are here to make money on us, simple as that. The least we MUST do is scrutinize everything they say so that we can truly separate the VRT-type projects from truely incredible projects. Let's not make it easy on vendors to fool us, ok? That's where I am coming from. BTW, I was callign out VRT wayyyy before (months....) they were really exposed for not only their business practices but their technical incompetence... and I was right all along about them.

Let's just get on with our lives.

P.S. This was just a general example and the VRT-type comment does NOT in any way apply here to IP, does NOT!