My unenviable experience concerning BuiltZMotors
08-10-2007, 12:09 PM
#362
Originally Posted by JoeDirtPharmD
It ran rich once at the 50 mi mark when I hammered it - don't twist mine.
'Supbar' is fair - it wasn't 'as advertised.'
EDIT: subpar
'Supbar' is fair - it wasn't 'as advertised.'
EDIT: subpar
Originally Posted by joe
When first installed, it was running well at idle and cruise, but very sloppy on the upper end (very rich). Stayed out of it until I had about 250mi. on the car and took it to DynoComp in Scottsdale.
Originally Posted by joe
At 50mi. I did an oil change - same oil (0w30) and drove it more aggressively until I noticed it was bogging out at high RPMs and it was pig-rich. At 100mi. I took it for it's first tune.
Last edited by Motormouth; 08-10-2007 at 12:14 PM.
08-10-2007, 12:10 PM
#363
Originally Posted by taurran
Sure you didn't, because if Chris would have posted a thread such as this, you have no reason to assist him. And PLEASE, you know there could be 1000 reasons why the motor spun a bearing. I find it VERY unlikely that he can't change oil. I'd be more willing to believe that all of the extensive amount metal shavings they found in the oil pan (like Don's) motor had something to do with the oil starvation. They could have easily been injested and caused this issue.
I'm not sure of the extent taken on the second try, but obviously they would have been better off trashing the block you sent and building another one from the ground up. Don is smart for wanting to do so.
Now, PF, MRC, FP, and GTM won't install your motors for obvious reasons. I think there's a reason all of these shops are doing in-house builds now...
All you do in your "warranty" assistance is look for a way to "absolve... from any liability or issues". You weren't sincerely interested in helping in any way, just as you aren't sincere in helping in this problem. The only thing you're sincere about is getting any sort of blame off your back and clearing up any issues that may effect your reputation.
The problem with dealing with you is that you will not ASSUME ANY sort of responsibility, and in fact will attempt to weasel your way out of it. This is why the SECOND you knew about Chris' second failure, you were on the phone spreading word to all of the shops you could possibly contact. Pretty sad...
I'm not sure of the extent taken on the second try, but obviously they would have been better off trashing the block you sent and building another one from the ground up. Don is smart for wanting to do so.
Now, PF, MRC, FP, and GTM won't install your motors for obvious reasons. I think there's a reason all of these shops are doing in-house builds now...
All you do in your "warranty" assistance is look for a way to "absolve... from any liability or issues". You weren't sincerely interested in helping in any way, just as you aren't sincere in helping in this problem. The only thing you're sincere about is getting any sort of blame off your back and clearing up any issues that may effect your reputation.
The problem with dealing with you is that you will not ASSUME ANY sort of responsibility, and in fact will attempt to weasel your way out of it. This is why the SECOND you knew about Chris' second failure, you were on the phone spreading word to all of the shops you could possibly contact. Pretty sad...
08-10-2007, 12:12 PM
#364
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Originally Posted by Motormouth
Romey already warned us... I'd back off.
Oh well. If he deems it so, it can all be deleted. I only hope that the posts I'm replying to are deleted as well.
08-10-2007, 12:36 PM
#366
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You know, to be completely honest, Don, you are openly admitting you gave him NO CHANCE to fix his mistakes. With this rather apparent to the rest of the community now, I believe Todd is willing to do even more than he should do at this point. You cannot expect a full refund, nor do you deserve a single dime. What you do deserve is a working motor as you paid for.
08-10-2007, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Conceyted
You know, to be completely honest, Don, you are openly admitting you gave him NO CHANCE to fix his mistakes. With this rather apparent to the rest of the community now, I believe Todd is willing to do even more than he should do at this point. You cannot expect a full refund, nor do you deserve a single dime. What you do deserve is a working motor as you paid for.
This happened, and as soon as the issues were found by GTM he changed his tune and insisted that this was not within warranty.
That's when this thread was posted.
Now, Todd insists he will cover it out of the kindness of his own heart, and everyone is on his side. People like you are not taking anything into consideration that happened before he agreed to this. In fact, he knew about it the whole time.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for posting this, but I'm telling the other side of the story since you haven't been able to grasp it and take it into consideration thus far...
I agree he deserves a working motor, but now this situation is so FUBAR by the games that are being played that everyone will come out a loser. But hey, at least face was saved...
Last edited by taurran; 08-10-2007 at 01:05 PM.
08-10-2007, 12:57 PM
#369
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Originally Posted by taurran
Actually from what I know from sources directly involved in the situation, Todd was involved from the start and refused to take blame for the issue. It was finally decided that GTM could disassemble and report findings, and anything wrong with the build would be covered by BZM.
This happened, and as soon as the issues were found by GTM he changed his tune and insisted that this was not within warranty.
That's when this thread was posted.
Now, Todd insists he will cover it out of the kindness of his own heart, and everyone is on his side. People like you are not taking anything into consideration that happened before he agreed to this.
In fact, he knew about it the whole time. I'm sure I'll get flamed for posting this, but I'm telling the other side of the story since you haven't been able to grasp it and take it into consideration thus far...
I agree he deserves a working motor, but now this situation is so FUBAR by the games that are being played that everyone will come out a loser. But hey, at least face was saved...
This happened, and as soon as the issues were found by GTM he changed his tune and insisted that this was not within warranty.
That's when this thread was posted.
Now, Todd insists he will cover it out of the kindness of his own heart, and everyone is on his side. People like you are not taking anything into consideration that happened before he agreed to this.
In fact, he knew about it the whole time. I'm sure I'll get flamed for posting this, but I'm telling the other side of the story since you haven't been able to grasp it and take it into consideration thus far...
I agree he deserves a working motor, but now this situation is so FUBAR by the games that are being played that everyone will come out a loser. But hey, at least face was saved...
08-10-2007, 01:04 PM
#370
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Originally Posted by taurran
Now, PF, MRC, FP, and GTM won't install your motors for obvious reasons. I think there's a reason all of these shops are doing in-house builds now...
..
its because they build their own, come on captain obvious.
08-10-2007, 01:06 PM
#371
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This is a sad thread to read for us guys ready to take the next step and build our motors. Especially when some of the names/shops thrown around on this thread are/were options for some of us.. I hope everything gets taken care of ASAP and get the OP back on the road & happy...
Last edited by IslandZavage; 08-10-2007 at 01:10 PM.
08-10-2007, 01:08 PM
#372
Originally Posted by taurran
Actually from what I know from sources directly involved in the situation, Todd was involved from the start and refused to take blame for the issue. It was finally decided that GTM could disassemble and report findings, and anything wrong with the build would be covered by BZM. Todd was made aware of this.
This happened, and as soon as the issues were found by GTM he changed his tune and insisted that this was not within warranty.
That's when this thread was posted.
Now, Todd insists he will cover it out of the kindness of his own heart, and everyone is on his side. People like you are not taking anything into consideration that happened before he agreed to this. In fact, he knew about it the whole time.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for posting this, but I'm telling the other side of the story since you haven't been able to grasp it and take it into consideration thus far...
I agree he deserves a working motor, but now this situation is so FUBAR by the games that are being played that everyone will come out a loser. But hey, at least face was saved...
This happened, and as soon as the issues were found by GTM he changed his tune and insisted that this was not within warranty.
That's when this thread was posted.
Now, Todd insists he will cover it out of the kindness of his own heart, and everyone is on his side. People like you are not taking anything into consideration that happened before he agreed to this. In fact, he knew about it the whole time.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for posting this, but I'm telling the other side of the story since you haven't been able to grasp it and take it into consideration thus far...
I agree he deserves a working motor, but now this situation is so FUBAR by the games that are being played that everyone will come out a loser. But hey, at least face was saved...
and what 'other side' are you giving us? We have heard three sides. now we have YOUR side... along with 20 other members of this site. pipe down. we get it, as you have eloquently stated like fifty times in this thread already... you don't believe Todd and think his products are crap and he is a thief.
08-10-2007, 01:14 PM
#373
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Originally Posted by Conceyted
If what you say is true, then I agree with you. However, I have/had no way of knowing it and from what I have gathered from this thread, Todd and Sam/Don are not agreeing on that issue. Todd says he asked for the motor immediately, while Sam/Don claims that he ALLOWED them to disassemble the block. Todd to this day still says he told them NOT to do this and that Sam's response was that he was going to convince Don of it whether Todd liked it or not. I am just stating it as I see it.
On the phone (no written record) I told Sam to send the motor back to me, that would be most cost effective for Don and us. Sam told me he would try to convince Don to do it all in one place. I stated this earlier.
Don accuses me of being poor at communicating with him during this ordeal, HE was poor at communicating with me. These were a few of the mistakes that led to a soon to be 20 page thread
Sam and I talked that day, then Sam decided he had "sevred ties" with me (not to my knowledge) and I didn't hear from either one of them. I know that I sent Don on 7/19/07 th pm that listed his warranty options...he is a big boy (especially with his overly confusing vocabulary
) and chose to have GTM build the engine.I admitted a few pages ago, I assumed this was not a motor issue, the only time I was defensive was when Sam came into the picture and he told me he was going to tell Don he should not send the motor back to me and have them rebuild it there...
when Don would send me various pm's I suggested it sounds like a bent valve from an over-rev scenario, that made the most sense at that time... now there are signs that the pistons were in contact with the cylinder head?!?!?!? As I said, I'm baffled, this is why I need to get the engine back here, as unmolested as possible, so we can do some analysis. I already agrred to GO ABOVE AND BEYOND and rebuild the engine so I want to do the analysis to find out what went wrong (to prevent in the future) and I will share the findings in detail, that makes mathematical sense (I'll have Gurgen review
) on this forum...so stay tuned.Don, I'm sorry you are so upset, your attitude towards me is unfounded, you could have contacted me by phone, as you never did, you could have been more direct in asking me what I would do if it turned out to be a motor issue...up until the GTM experience, I received a few pm's from you, you posted a thread asking for advice, and until more testing was done, there were several possibilities, from the given history, it was FAIr for me to assume a rich condition/ poor engine management had caused your symtpoms.
Now you say it was only rich for a few seconds, as someone else pointed out, that was not the impression you gave.
We will know more as to the cause soon, I will keep you all posted, Don, if you have any questions, call me, or pm me.
TODD
08-10-2007, 01:18 PM
#375
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Originally Posted by Motormouth
out of curiosity, if a piston was contacting the head, would there be noise? like piston slap has or anything/
absolutely.... and i would see it when assembling the engine... another reason i can't wait to see this engine
08-10-2007, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Motormouth
I went back and read the thread (as it happened) and that is not how it sounded at all. I agree that Todd was reticent to blame the issues on his engine... as this is the largest, most expensive piece to blame, no duh. reading through, it sounded like the problem was misdiagnosed for a long time.
and what 'other side' are you giving us? We have heard three sides. now we have YOUR side... along with 20 other members of this site. pipe down. we get it, as you have eloquently stated like fifty times in this thread already... you don't believe Todd and think his products are crap and he is a thief.
and what 'other side' are you giving us? We have heard three sides. now we have YOUR side... along with 20 other members of this site. pipe down. we get it, as you have eloquently stated like fifty times in this thread already... you don't believe Todd and think his products are crap and he is a thief.
It's straight from the "horses mouth" stated in more concise terms. I didn't just randomly make it up, trust me...
Oh well, make of it what you will...
08-10-2007, 01:21 PM
#378
Originally Posted by taurran
This thread is so convoluted with different "sides" of the story that it couldn't be any harder to grasp what really happened. However, what I stated wasn't based off the 20 posts you just read over. This also isn't "my side" of the story, as I have none..
It's straight from the "horses mouth" stated in more concise terms. I didn't just randomly make it up, trust me...
Oh well, make of it what you will...
It's straight from the "horses mouth" stated in more concise terms. I didn't just randomly make it up, trust me...
Oh well, make of it what you will...
and it seemed pretty clear what everyone's point of view was.
08-10-2007, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 350zDCalb
On the phone (no written record) I told Sam to send the motor back to me, that would be most cost effective for Don and us. Sam told me he would try to convince Don to do it all in one place. I stated this earlier.
Don accuses me of being poor at communicating with him during this ordeal, HE was poor at communicating with me. These were a few of the mistakes that led to a soon to be 20 page thread
Sam and I talked that day, then Sam decided he had "sevred ties" with me (not to my knowledge) and I didn't hear from either one of them. I know that I sent Don on 7/19/07 th pm that listed his warranty options...he is a big boy (especially with his overly confusing vocabulary ) and chose to have GTM build the engine.
I admitted a few pages ago, I assumed this was not a motor issue, the only time I was defensive was when Sam came into the picture and he told me he was going to tell Don he should not send the motor back to me and have them rebuild it there...
when Don would send me various pm's I suggested it sounds like a bent valve from an over-rev scenario, that made the most sense at that time... now there are signs that the pistons were in contact with the cylinder head?!?!?!? As I said, I'm baffled, this is why I need to get the engine back here, as unmolested as possible, so we can do some analysis. I already agrred to GO ABOVE AND BEYOND and rebuild the engine so I want to do the analysis to find out what went wrong (to prevent in the future) and I will share the findings in detail, that makes mathematical sense (I'll have Gurgen review ) on this forum...so stay tuned.
Don, I'm sorry you are so upset, your attitude towards me is unfounded, you could have contacted me by phone, as you never did, you could have been more direct in asking me what I would do if it turned out to be a motor issue...up until the GTM experience, I received a few pm's from you, you posted a thread asking for advice, and until more testing was done, there were several possibilities, from the given history, it was FAIr for me to assume a rich condition/ poor engine management had caused your symtpoms.
Now you say it was only rich for a few seconds, as someone else pointed out, that was not the impression you gave.
We will know more as to the cause soon, I will keep you all posted, Don, if you have any questions, call me, or pm me.
TODD
Don accuses me of being poor at communicating with him during this ordeal, HE was poor at communicating with me. These were a few of the mistakes that led to a soon to be 20 page thread
Sam and I talked that day, then Sam decided he had "sevred ties" with me (not to my knowledge) and I didn't hear from either one of them. I know that I sent Don on 7/19/07 th pm that listed his warranty options...he is a big boy (especially with his overly confusing vocabulary
) and chose to have GTM build the engine.I admitted a few pages ago, I assumed this was not a motor issue, the only time I was defensive was when Sam came into the picture and he told me he was going to tell Don he should not send the motor back to me and have them rebuild it there...
when Don would send me various pm's I suggested it sounds like a bent valve from an over-rev scenario, that made the most sense at that time... now there are signs that the pistons were in contact with the cylinder head?!?!?!? As I said, I'm baffled, this is why I need to get the engine back here, as unmolested as possible, so we can do some analysis. I already agrred to GO ABOVE AND BEYOND and rebuild the engine so I want to do the analysis to find out what went wrong (to prevent in the future) and I will share the findings in detail, that makes mathematical sense (I'll have Gurgen review
) on this forum...so stay tuned.Don, I'm sorry you are so upset, your attitude towards me is unfounded, you could have contacted me by phone, as you never did, you could have been more direct in asking me what I would do if it turned out to be a motor issue...up until the GTM experience, I received a few pm's from you, you posted a thread asking for advice, and until more testing was done, there were several possibilities, from the given history, it was FAIr for me to assume a rich condition/ poor engine management had caused your symtpoms.
Now you say it was only rich for a few seconds, as someone else pointed out, that was not the impression you gave.
We will know more as to the cause soon, I will keep you all posted, Don, if you have any questions, call me, or pm me.
TODD
please feel free to ship the crated motor directly to Forged Performance...
and no need for thanks, doc... i'm just trying to better the community by providing my services FREE OF CHARGE...
Last edited by stormcrow; 08-10-2007 at 01:27 PM.
08-10-2007, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by stormcrow
Todd, to help the community, i have decided that i will accept, at no charge, a 'Built Z Motors' fully sleeved and fully built motor for test purposes... i will install (on Sharif's dime) said motor and push it to maximum capacity via gobs of boost and crazy amounts of timing...
please feel free to ship the crated motor directly to Forged Performance...
and no need for thanks, doc... i'm just trying to better the community by providing my services FREE OF CHARGE...
please feel free to ship the crated motor directly to Forged Performance...
and no need for thanks, doc... i'm just trying to better the community by providing my services FREE OF CHARGE...
lol... LMAO...