Thanks George!
This is what I have always believed, that what works for a turbo motor will NOT be the best choice for an N/A motoer, two completely different engines.
The ramp rate and center cut for lobe design must be different, thats why I never had any respect for JWT when they claim thier cams are good for both
situations. I'm an old time domestic motor head and growing up there were always three types of cam catergories: street = low end torque, race = top end power and forced induction = totally different grind!

 

No, I can't answer the question because again, the info on the heads is very vague. Even with the chart posted. I will say this...as nice as they are, they leave a lot on the table power wise, especially for a big boost application (all of which has been discussed at length before). Is there room in the marketplace for them? Absolutely - it's a quality product for sure, with alot of time spent on maximizing utility, but with particular emphasis on making it work for a broad range of customers (as one would expect with a product of this type from a big name manufacturer). For a lightly boost application, they would work well IMHO. I've considered them for NA setups too, but I'm not a fan of the big valve (personal opinion) and their combustion chamber cc I seem to remember dropping compression a touch.

As I said, you should ask your machinist which you should run so you can give him all the particulars about your setup.

If you haven't read the article links I posted, you should, it will teach you alot, and when your builder starts talking some of the engineering jibberish to you, it will make much more sense. Like anything else, taking the time to fully understand the basics will make you a far more informed consumer, and allow you to make an educated decision.

 

Thats a really good way of saying "I have no clue....ask someone else."

 

you're absolutely right....because the info to make a recommendation is not there, and as such, they would be well served to ask the person building the engine(s) since that person WILL have the details needed to make a recommendation for them

I don't pull recommendations out of my *** because I like how they sound, and I'm certainly not going to make one based on an incomplete scenario.

 

Without data there is no way to support anyone's claims about which cam is better. The only posted anecdotal evidence I have seen on the board has been BamBam's car. He switched from JWT to GTM cams, and while the power band changed, it was not without tradeoffs, as I recall. What was a good move for him might not be for someone else, depending on expectations.

So you can see why it's hard to have "respect" for a post like yours that claims disrespect for a particular brand based on a personal theory.
I'm j/k, I'm sure JWT is just targetting the largest market that they can (the most benefit for the most people) and a compromise is the result...

 

ForcefedZ,

Thanks for actually having something to contribute that answers my question. All I really wanted to hear was feedback from other guys like yourself who have installed these BC cams.

Your dyno is impressive. I take it that you are very happy and satisfied with them, especially in the upper revs?

 

That is kind of an "old school" train of thought which is pretty normal considering 3/4 of the books you pick up will preach that. Ever wonder what the actual reason was that NA cam profile didn't work well in turbo setup?

One of the differences is the turbos that are now available are much more efficient. People have learned more about proper turbo sizing for a given application.

If you have a turbo setup that has 4:1 ratio of exhaust back pressure and change the cam profile to what some people consider an NA race cam it will not work well.

But if you get the exhaust back pressure down to say 1:1 that same NA cam will shine.

High exhaust back pressure with a lot of cam overlap= intake charge dilution/excessive heat/detonation/and poor performance

BTW, I respect your opinion but don't kid yourself. Jim Wolf is a pioneer in the aftermarket performance world with many accomplishment under his belt

 

can i answer this what if?......unlike chevrolet we don't 1000's of grinds to chose from,we have maybe 15,so if you simply work up the lift/duration scale the choice is simple.mild to wild your idle will disapear,the mid-cams are the limit for street.(a broader stroke was never brushed)

 

Boost can make up for alot of head flaws. Almost any engine builder will tell you that. Most of the cams for our car on the market now are not intended for big power or power much past the factory redline.

You are still missing the ORIGINAL question stated stated by RudeD..."SOOO... What cams do you recommend for pulling beyond 7000RPM? Enlighten me please." If you honestly think that a mild 264 cam is going to pull good past 7k on our motors, then you really shouldnt be making any recommendations. And since only 2 companies have officially released anything bigger, that should help you narrow your choise down.

 

Z1 i have tried to put this as specifically as possible... if you were to build an engine and you have the parts i have listed... WHAT cams would you TRY... i mean don't even say what brand, but what would your 1st guess on what duration and lift would be good. i mean.. you gotta start somewhere based on some of the details i have provided you...where would you start...???......

you don't need to have all the cfm# and every single little spec to provide a good educated guess based on the specific info i have provided......

 

you're entitled to your opinion, however ill conceived it might be

only 2 companies offer bigger than a 264? Really? Maybe for a revup that's true

 

honestly I wouldnt really make my decision based off of the advertised duration and lift, instead I'd try to enlist an engine builder who has had these cams at their disposal and could tell me the ramp rate, and LSA, which to me, is far more telling of where the cam will shine.

Assuming a non revup: for a typical Greddy equipped car with the std. 18G's, 3 inch test pipes, and a 3.5 bottom end that revs to lets say, 7000 - I'd personally do the Tomei 264's. The BC cams on paper look somewhat close and it wouldn't surprise me if they mimicked the overall profile. I'd have to ask my machinist what he thought of them as I know he did a built VQ using them about 6 months ago (Turbonetics kit). As I mentioned if I were personally going through the time and expense of fitting cams, I'd also go a bit further and clean the ports up and perform a real valve job, which would be worth some good improvement up top, and top it off with a nice set of springs. While the springs aren't mandatory, you're in there one time, and for their relatively small price, you'll end up with a motor that could be spun higher down the road as the setup allows.

For an very high revving forced induction setup, I'm not the right person to ask, as I have very limited experience on such a VQ. The majority of my experience and time has been spent on the NA side of things for these engines and lightly boosted setups.

Again though, if resources are limited, for a lightly boosted car (your typical greddy on a built motor, etc) I'd personally do the headwork and use the stock cams

 

Well... No offense intended... But why then did you get involved in this discussion when all I was asking in my first post was for feedback from others who have installed these BC cams???

I think it is implied from my post that I am interested in a high revving forced induction setup. Also, if you look at my sig and my involvement in the PowerLab threads, you can guess that I'm interested in a built motor with a high boost PowerLab setup as well.

 

to inspire you to maybe learn the basics of cam selection for yourself, which in turn will make it easier for you to pick what you need, rather than relying on some random "I have them and they are great" post that is usually posted. You have to learn what the camshafts job is, and understand how it affects the rest of the setup. That's wht I posted those few articles, because they will give you a much better understanding of things, and make you realize that people can quote you lift and duration all day long....and it amounts to nothing by way of truly meaningful information. I didn't notice your signature, and I know nothing about your particular stroker, nor your turbo kit, and frankly, neither will anyone else outside of the people who either built them, or the person who is assembling it all for you. If I were in your shoes, I'd start with those two people and go from there.

 

thsi threads is serving its purpuse...its informational...and the uninformationals its forcing other to post informational info lol

MOST OPINIONS WELCOMED

So we are happy with 264... then that mean thats probably what realistically 80% of the build need.....so what about higher reving... past 7000rpms...BC cams have dynos showing they still make power..and probably still the best compromise with the Idle consideration too(without just jacking up the idle rpms too high)

 

thanks for you reply but ...and the encouragement to research. Which i did and found this part of yoru post not to be accurate
I dunno if you realice that BC makes the cranks for the PE stroker kits?And that BC most likely makes some other Japanese companies cams..

 

http://www.jimwolftechnology.com//wo...ft_secrets.pdf

This article wasn't online when I was selecting cams, but I talked to Mr. Clark about cam selection and he mentioned some of these points. FWIW...

 

JWT knows whats up

 

I think what I posted is accurate...on paper, the 2 cams have very similar specs. I'd have to see if we did a cam card for the BC's to know how similar, they really are (or not). What I do know is the Tomei's have been out since before BC was even in business on their own.

Good article by JWT for sure...it happens all the time

 

Not here to argue, trying to stay out of the drama (especially here) just offering my two cents. I dont think my school of thought is outdated there are many articles showing why F/I cams are no good for N/A.
Two completelt different things going on inside the engine as far as pressure and timing go. Ramp rate (how fast the valves open and close) ceterlobe profile alone will change characteristics with two cams of the same lift and duration. (this is the timing of when the valves open and close) as well as how long they stay open (duration) and how far they open (lift).
Then we get into cam timing itself plus the addition of electroics now controlling cam timing and as you can see there is a lot going on.
F/I cams are more forgiving in selection, this is why many are making good power with stock valvetrain and stock heads.
It is more critical to match components with headwork and exhaust when going N/A if you want to make power. I think that has been shown here a number of times. Adams car vs. Rednezz coms to mind where a carefully planned out engine build vs high quality parts put together yeilded different results.
As I agree the cams availble are limited right now, although there is more than you think;
Tomei has six grinds, Nismo has a few, GTM has six grinds, BC has two for now and more on the way, JTW has four, GSC has three, there are several others that escape my memory right now, and though not readily availble
there are many japenese tuner shops who have thier own grinds, JUN , Top Secret, Signal, Boss and others that can be had if you really tried.
With Cosworth and HKS on thier way as well.
I will admit that modt of these are developed for FI as thats were the markit is in North America but I hope to see more and more N/A cams as the Z community is starting to break the ice on NA power here in the states.
By the way MANY tuners in japan have developed the NA VQ well past where
we are here in the states.
Maybe I misworded my statement about JTW, I know they have been one of the pioneers for our car but to say that they have an all purpose cam is ridiculous! Nothing could be further from the truth.