AIS

www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

how would running water injection with steel sleeves such as darton sleeves go down?

would the sleeves eventually rust out?

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

Sentry,

Water is a normal by product of the combustion process anyway. So, I would have to say that it shouldn't affect the sleeves anymore than normal combustion would.....which is essentially none.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

ok, well last night I took my intake pipe off to check the spark plugs and noticed what appears to be rust coming from my water injection nozzle. It's all over the piping, but clearly trails up to the sprayer nozzle.

it's things like that that make me wonder what else can possibly cause rust

AIS

If your talking about the Darton Cylinder sleeves water injection will not effect them. This is not different then any other aluminum sleeved block or cast iron block in production cars. When the water methanol injection is spraying it's only a small amount (fine mist). The whole time your driving your still running gasoline through the engine which is partially lubricating the cylinder walls, valves, etc. There’s to much gasoline running through the engine to allow rust to happen.

As an example, if this was a pure alcohol race engine, you would flush the entire fuel system out and run the motor on gasoline for a few minutes to prevent corrosion from happening with in the motor since the alcohol strips oil away leaving everything very susceptible to rusting.

AIS

Is your piping uncoated on the inside? If it's uncoated steel then yes it will rust. Most companies powder coat the piping inside and out.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

piping is coated, it's not the piping that's the issue
it appears to be coming out of the nozzle of my WI kit and then getting all over the piping

athenG

iTrader: (2)

Anyone using Water/Meth kit using Injector Pulse Width? I'm looking at STS Water Meth kit and this is the explenation I got from STS.

" Our meth kit is unique compared to most of the other ones out there in the way that it delivers the 'progressive' fueling. Most kits out there are geared more for diesel and/or high boost applications so they are progressive based on boost more than RPM which is great for diesel applications where rpms are very limited and boost is extreme in range. Our system has a preprogrammed adjustable start point (typically 4 psi is where I will usually turn it on) and then it mimics the injector duty cycle so that as load and rpm increase it puts fuel in proportionally as the PCM is putting in fuel. We use the injector duty as the trigger for our duty cycle of the pump. It can also be triggered by an independent programmable source if you have a piggyback or some other source that allows you to plot a duty cycle map. I've set them up and run them with Unichip before and that worked real well too. Most of the time just running off your injector duty is going to work real well though and you can then just change nozzles and meth/water mixtures to obtain what is going to work best for your application"


I'm a newb on Water/Meth kit and wondering if this is good or any more question I should ask with the kit.


Edit:

Here's another explanation


"Our controller uses a negative trigger, just like running the injectors. So if you have the Utec control the pulse on that negative wire it will pulse modulate the duty cycle of the methanol. Duty cycle is actually not exactly what we want to describe this as, more in the line of pulse width - so sorry if I threw you off with that term. Duty cycle has a lot to do with the actual pulse width in milliseconds vs. the rpm of the engine and the 'window of opportunity' to spray during the intake cycle. Obviously you can hold injector open for a longer time at 3000 rpm (while intake valve is open) than you can at 6000 rpm (twice as long of a time in ms to spray fuel into the cylinder). Hope that makes sense"

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

ok, turns out the meth was eating away at the brass nozzle so it's not rust afterall

AIS

We have not scene this before. Which system do you have?

jining

iTrader: (7)

quick question for you water/meth injection gurus:

I am currently tuned using a 100% water spray, but I am contemplating putting in a 35/65 meth/water mixture (-20 degree blue washer fluid).

The reason for this is because I do not want my washer tank/lines to freeze and crack due to the cold temps. Will I suffer a performance loss from this or is there any chance I could gain performance by just adding this ontop of my existing tune? Roughly how far will my a/f drop switching to 35% meth? Will this give me an increase or decrease in temps?



Also, to sentry65 post above, are you using washer fluid? I heard of some washer fluids that contain ingredients besides meth/water that can cause some unwanted corrosion.

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

Methanol is extremely corrosive on engine parts! I recently saw a set of rods from a Ford GT. They were spotted all over the rods. I asked the engine what happened to them, and he explained that the owner would exclusively run VP C16 gas in the car, but he wasn't very diligent about changing his oil. Apparently, C16 has a decent methanol content in it, and enough of the methanol had leached into his engine oil supply. After long enough exposure, the methanol was causing damage to the internal parts. I only saw the rods, but I can imagine that alot of other parts had simialr damage. The engine builder said they tried to recondition the rods for him, but the spots would reappear within a day or so.

Interesting stuff.

AIS

The 35% additional methanol should not effect your A/F enough to require making a change to your tune. It should only lower your A/F by the most a half point. Depending on how your A/F is set you should be just fine with a little extra fuel in the upper rpm's with no changes to tune.

The additional methanol will help lower AIT's more then a pure water shot. However, you will not notice a change in power by just switching the fluid from 100% water to 70/30 water methanol without retuning for it.

For fuel injected cars with the ability to properly retune the ECU we generally recommend at least a 50/50 mix for starters and upwards to 100% depending on the application. Depending on the application and the temperature of the day we've found were able to run higher levels of boost and increased timing as we add more methanol to the mix.

If you want to know exactly whets in the windshield wiper fluid your using, simply look up it's MSDS sheet. This will tell you the exact percentages of everything it contains.

AIS

They must have been running a different type of fuel. VP C16 is a high octane leaded fuel. It doesn't contain any methanol. As for methanol injection, we've been running pure methanol for years without any problems internally. Many of our Corvette owners run pure methanol without any issues.

athenG

iTrader: (2)

Yes, Washer Fluid contain some Detergent but I'm not going to worry about that. there are lots of guys who are actually running straight Meth and they are all fine. You are really not really using Meth as a straight fuel so it will not affect any lines, Injector, Fuel Rail...etc. Plus you will only be spraying for a short amount of time so I would worry about. You can always buy the mix from AIS, Coolingmist or Snow so you get a pure mix.

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

maybe so. I know that C16 is leaded race fuel.....I just don't know if it contains any methanol......whatever the case was, this Ford GT had permanent damage from some chemical attacking the metals.

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

I believe C16 also contains halocarbon metal lead scavengers like ethylene dichloride or dibromide. If the guy was running C16 exclusively it may have had something to do with the corrosion.

Halogenated ethylene will scavenge aluminum quite readily too. And it may react differently with different alloys.

...I've noticed exhaust system parts corrode a lot more quickly when leaded race gas is used. It leaves corrosive chloride salts all over everything.

catcapt

Still looking for diy on methano kit!

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

zomber thread
diy kit? GOOGLE
Info? GOOGLE + draw your own conclusions
Step by step of this info? GTFO

AIS

There's plenty of info on google by various people showing how to make a home made water methanol kit. But when you compare the costs and the quality of the system you can't beat the quality or value of one of our kits. Check it out for yourself. Our basic kits with no tank start at $239.99.

Let me know if you have any questions or how I can help.

Rodney