str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

rodney, how many turns does it take for your pump thats preset at 200 psi to go to 250psi?

Synjn

iTrader: (1)

What kind of gains should I expect with my setup? Also, since I cannot create anymore boost (using smallest pulley already); the only thing a tune is going to do is create a map that advances my ignition timing a bit, is that correct? So I should see 25-35hp gains by doing water/meth injection AND getting a tune without additional boost?
Thanks in advance

Here is my modifications:

Vortech Supercharger 10-12 psi 2.87 pulley
GTM Stage 1 longblock (rated 600 hp)
GTM Stage 1 cam
GTM Stage 1 heads
550cc injectors
Walbro fuel pump
Motordyne plenum spacer
GTM spec ECU flash
Stock exhaust manifolds
Stillen dual exhaust
Stillen high flow cats
Stillen lightweight aluminum flywheel
ACT heavy duty PP & 6 puck disc

Elperuano

Thread bump!
Looking for a water/meth set-up for my goals not sure which one would be best.
Powerlab gt35r 8lbs
420hp/368tq mustang dyno
Stock block

Really looking into this system for the added safety it will hopefully provide my stock block.. Which system do you think is best for my set-up?

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

unfortunately, there is no saftey when you are not limited by your fuel but by your rods.

You will far exceed the mechanical limits of your rods before you start running into detonation/high AITs (of which are the only things that a meth kit can prevent)

Goo$e

iTrader: (9)

I heard Snow Performance is best.

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

It depends what you are looking for. I went with Coolingmist because of the power and flexibility of their Smart Injection Controller. That was about two years ago and perhaps since then other companies have come out with something similar. I haven't looked so I don't know.

I've posted the drawing of my setup in other threads, but I'll post it here to save from having to search for it. In short, I have it configured to communicate with the F-CON to automatically switch to my meth maps (F-CON's scramble maps for inection and ignition timing) when the meth system is turned on, and revert back to the base maps when the meth system is turned off. Also, it will automatically revert to the base maps and turn off the boost controller if the tank runs dry or the meth line gets clogged. Also, the meth flow is setup progressively based on a 2-D boost/rpm map. I have LED indicators that show the status of the system.

jining

iTrader: (7)

I bought an AIS trunk mount kit about 2 years ago, and I was never asked about the engine size/boost/power or anything like that in order to determine the type of nozzle I needed. What nozzle do I have on there now?

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

it should be stamped on the nozzle.

otherwise you will have to spray it into a bucket for a minute to determine the output. But since you have been using it for 2 years, it really doesnt matter now.

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

I had two nozzles before. I think they were each 10 GPH. I had it all installed and working, but lost two rod bearings before I had it tuned for meth injection.

Now, I have a 6x manifold so that I can run one 4 GPH (250cc/min) nozzle into each intake runner in the new motor. It will be about a month before we get around to that.

The flow capacity really depends on what your goals are with your motor. I have an Excel spreadsheet with a bunch of calculation tools that I use, including a fuel flow calculator that accounts for meth, meth/water and water injection. If you want me to e-mail you a copy, PM me your e-mail address.

jining

iTrader: (7)

Hmm yea I guess not, seems to be working nicely.... Just was curious if I was perhaps spraying too much.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

Terry, Are you running dual pumps? 24gph is beyond the capacity of any of the 250psi pumps from what CM and AIS told me..

You'd know if you were spraying too much bc you'd be quenching the spark and the car would run all messed up under spray

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Aquamist HFS-6 is another system to look into. It bases its delivery on detection of actual fuel injector pulse width, which is ideal. The wiring is extremely simplified in the latest version thanks to use of RJ45 (ethernet) connectors. GTM and Howerton Engineering are the two large dealers in the USA for Aquamist (a UK based company). It has long been THE leading system because of this technology. It also detects low and high flow error conditions (e.g. blocked piping or disconnected piping) and uses a high speed valve to regulate flow. The Aquatec recirculating pump it uses operates nominally at 160 psi, but you can set it higher if you feel a need to (not recommended for longevity though).

The support from Aquamist has been outstanding - I received a control unit with firmware mapped for exactly what I needed to run (low impedence injectors and pumping 1000-1500 cc/min).

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

A single pump. Here is from Coolingmist's website:

"our new 200 high pressure pump. This pump is user adjustable from 100 to 250 PSI, but its set at 200 PSI from the factory. Even running 2 of our largest nozzles will keep the pressure near 200 PSI. Compatible with alcohol, methanol and water."

Their largest nozzles are 878 cc/min at 200 psi, so that is a total of 1756 cc/min at 200 psi. I won't be running 200 psi because my valves are only good to about 150 psi or so. Six of the 250 cc/min nozzles will flow 1500 cc/min at 150 psi. The pump should be more than adequate.

Quenching the spark is more of a concern when you have straight water or a low meth/water ratio. The rule of thumb that I have heard is that you can flow up to a water/gasoline ratio of 15%. I won't be near that. Likely, I'll be running straight meth, or maybe a 70/30 meth/water ratio. Also, the flow is progressive based on boost and rpm. At low boost/rpm the flow rate will be fairly low. Note, I have my setup configured to first turn on one valve, and then turn on the second as the boost/rpm increases. Also, the flow rate of both valves is controlled.

Also, note that when I bought the six injectors, 250cc was the smallest size. They now have 90cc/min and 180 cc/min nozzles available. I may swap to a smaller size if I am not getting an adequate spray pattern at the flow rate I will be using. I'll have to test it out when the time comes.

Goo$e

iTrader: (9)

True, and also said Snow Performance because I have SP . I'm pretty sure snow performance has all the power and flexibility as well. This is what I got installed...

SP Water/Meth Injection System w/ Safe Injection
-STG 2 Boost Controller
-SafeInj WG Solenoid
-Dual Nozzle Upgrade
-Low Level Indicator
-1 Gallon Reservoir

I also like set-it-and-forget-it type of systems so you don't have to worry about it.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

Thats cool, I would just double check. They didnt seem too confident when I told them about what boost I was running vs the size nozzles. There''s one guy at CM that answers the phones and he sure likes to talk. Hope you get him

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

That's Dave. He's a great guy.

I think every motor will be different. You really need to know what the fuel flow rate is going to be before you know what the water content limit will be. With meth, the more you pump in, the higher your net octane will be. I don't see how you can pump too much meth in, so long as you are properly tuned for it. Of course, the one gallon tank can drain pretty quickly if you go too crazy.

athenG

iTrader: (2)

+1

I also heard Snow Performance suck


LOL.. j/k.

All these kit are all the same (Snow, Coolingmist, AEM..etc). They all uses 1 input which pressure or MAF. A great kit should have more than 1 input, an rpm/load dependent like the higher end Aquamist model IMO are the best. You can't compare the airflow at 10psi@3000rpm vs 10psi@7000rpm. Snow/EAM/Coolingmist will spray the same amount of meth regardless of rpm. Granted the your highest knock area is at the midrange but it's still a fact that you are not getting the same ratio of spray across the board.

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

This is not completely correct. As I noted, my coolingmist system has a 2-D map based on Boost and rpm in the Smart Injection controller. It feeds a 2-D output signal to the Boost Controller.

The Aquamist unit Raj mentioned does look very interesting. It sounds like it puts it all in a single unit, and bases injection on the injector pulse width, which sounds like a good strategy.

athenG

iTrader: (2)

I haven't been updated on every kit but I'm 100% it wasn't available 2years ago. I know because I was in contact with coolingmist about these feature. I even got the IAT sensor with them so the kit can spray a little bit more when temp goes higher or lower. I eventually sold my kit before I even got a chance to install them. I went with a local kit that uses a SS nozzle instead of a Brass.

Edit:
STS was also using a water injection that uses the actual injector PW to spray. I went with the traditional water injection kit out in the market because STS wont give me enough details on how to make it work with our car.

athenG

iTrader: (2)

You said this was 2 years ago? I swear I had multiple discussion with Coolingmist about incorporating the RPM but they said it wasn't yet available. They did say it's coming but I couldn't wait. This was around January of 2008. My second option was Aquamist but I didnt want to spend 1K for it at that time.