thom000001

Not on E85 of course, but Mike said he wasn't interested in E85 cause its not available near him....on C16/VP import/etc they have though (both VQ's and 2JZ's, and others). Although on E85 1600's should get you up near 1000rwhp....lemme check the math again (don't remember off top of head)......I don't know if 3 Walbro's will get ya to 1000rwhp on E85 though either, may need a big in-line pump.

Tom

XKR

iTrader: (1)

Tom....... It would be... But is there someone that has used the TC on the Haltech on big powa??? I saw Hal losing traction at ZdayZ ......I know what the Raclogic can do ....I just don't want to remove a perfect running F-con and falling short on traction again..... What is the price of the ID2000? $1700?

Terry..... Not sure of the answer on that one...... I am sure someone on here can help us with that answer.


Rich....... E85 is not in my plans......for now......But I don't remember seeing 4 digits using it.

thom000001

Mike,
Well I wasn't referring to Haltech......

Don't know if anyone has used it yet on the VQ's themselves, but the supra's have had rediculous success with pro-efi 128 traction control.

Tom

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

I think Mike may be in the same boat as me. I have the HKS F-CON, HKS A/F Knock Amplifier, HKS Navigator Pro and all HKS sensors. I think Mike also has the HKS CAMP2. I am pretty confident that the Navigator Pro and CAMP2 only work with the F-CON. Also, I'm not sure how well the HKS Knock Amplifier and HKS sensors will interface with the Pro-EFI 128.

When you sell this stuff, you only get a fraction of the original cost back. Also, I think Mike has already had all of his HKS stuff custom mounted. By the time Mike sells all his HKS stuff, replaces it with new equipment, gets all the new equipment installed (including re-doing his dash, etc), and gets a new tune, it will turn out to be very expensive. Thus, I think it is more cost effective at this point to get the RaceLogic TC unit with either new injectors or an injector driver (like the AEM unit). New injectors will require a new tune, but I'm not sure whether this would be necessary if an injector driver were used.

I'm also leaning toward new injectors because as Mike previously stated, the AEM injector driver may or may not work satisfactorily with the RaceLogic TC unit. We won't know until someone tries it. Also, it is one more piece of electronics to worry about.

On that note, I am entertaining the idea of selling my HKS 1000cc injectors. If anyone is interested, please PM me.

thom000001

Yea with all the other stuff it does make sense then.

Just put some slicks on it all the time and turn up the boost!!!!!!

Tom

XKR

iTrader: (1)

OMG...... I forgot about the Knock-amp and other gadgets that comes with the F-Con...... Looks like you are correct.... It would be cheaper to go with injectors and TC....

I would lose my azz if I tried to sell that stuff.....

Also the labor to install and tune with a new EMS....Haltech or Pro-Efi

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

I edited my post. I forgot to mention that with new injectors you probably will need a re-tune anyway, but the rest of the EMS configuration should stay the same. Using an injector driver may avoid the need for a re-tune, but the first one to try it will end up being the guinny pig and things may go wrong, as you previously indicated.

I spoke to a company in Englans that was using the RaceLogic TC unit with their own injector driver, and they indicated that it worked perfectly fine. I think they were selling the RaceLogic TC unit with their injector driver for somewhere around $2k. I'll look to see if I can find the e-mail.

EDIT: I only found my e-mail to them, but not their response. The e-mail address is sales@advancedme.co.uk

EDIT EDIT: I just went to their website. It looks like they are a dealer for AEM. So, perhaps, "their" injector driver is the AEM unit.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

i would bet their driver is the AEM unit. That seems to be the standard option.

Mike, i was more thinking of me using the ID2000s for E85. I dont have the traction problems you have (at least I dont think so ), but I have a E85 pump 2 minutes from work. I just need to talk to Sharif and see how aggressive he feels comfortable tuning E85 vs pump/meth. Trying to run E85 and pump gas on a Haltech is clunky and I dont wanna buy that GM sensor and the Zeotronix gauge if 'safe' gains arent there. Those ID injectors are around $230 each (1400 or so for the matched set)

Oh ya, ID2000s are not compatible with VP Q16 and VP import (have MTBE). Not sure about C16 though....

XKR

iTrader: (1)

Terry......

I am going to re-tune.... I am sure it won't idle correctly without a tune. I was told to stay away from injector drives.....it could cause problems....I am removing myself from the Guinea Pig list.

Rich.....

Ohhhh.... I thought you meant me.....I will sit back and see how you do on E85.... The Mad Scientist had no issues with it..

$230 eachThats not bad for injectors of this level Thats just a little more than the HKS 1000.

I was told that C16 will not be a problem.

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

I agree. I'm not sure I want to be the guinea pig either. I sent an e-mail to ID asking them which 1000cc injectors are the best fit for our runners. I have not yet heard back.

XKR

iTrader: (1)

I am sure Sharif know that answer.... He has ordered a set for himself.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

we use the standard 14mm o-ring just like every other domestic car. Nothing special.

thom000001

Rich,
Folks are running a lot of boost on E85 these days....they are running it likes its C16 because of all the extra fuel (byproduct of all that fuel is helps keep cylinders cool)......I've seen guys running 36psi on E85 with no probs.

Tom

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

E85 is 105 octane, which makes it a great fuel for performance motors - It can handle more boost with FI motors and more compression with NA motors.

I wish we had it available here in Palm Beach County... If it were currently available here, I would be jumping on those ID 2000cc injectors and tuning for E85.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

Seems like that's probably the way to go. Probably wait for a retune as 713whp DD on pump and meth would need a 'race gas' type tune to make the price of admission worth while.

Hopefully when Mike gets some good rubber, the TC unit might not be such a pressing issue.

thom000001

Here's a Supra, E85, 40psi, 88mm Turbo, 1680cc injectors (60psi base pressure), triple bosch pumps, either 264 or 272 cams (can't remember).

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

I have Toyo R888 305's on back. Even when I was running in the 550-600 whp range I was having serious traction issues in first and second gear, and I would even get wheel spin in third gear when the turbos spooled up. At his hp level, I don't think new rubber alone will be enough.

I was playing with my boost vs speed settings in my boost controller, and this did help a bit, but traction controll is probably a better way of handling it if you don't mind spending the money. I don't think another $2k-$3k into the build is a significant issue for Mike.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

honestly money is not an issue for any of us at this level

but after watching that ProEFI TC vid on the dyno, it seems to just be a glorified VDC. it stumbles the motor when slip is detected. I guess thats how all the TC systems work?

I would assume that the good ones wont cause your car to jerk like the stock VDC though

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

There are some videos on youtube pertaining to the RaceLogic unit. It certainly is much smoother than my VDC ever has been, even before I started modifying my motor.

Whether it is any better than the Haltech or Pro-EFI TC I don't know. Considering its price, it should be. But it looks like if you need a stand-alone traction control unit, it is the only game in town. I looked for others, but did not find any.

Another interesting note is that today I came accross a thread in another forum wherein someone posted e-mail correspondence with RaceLogic inquiring as to whether they had any future plans to include support for low-impedance injectors in their TC unit. The answer from RaceLogic was a firm "NO". Moreover, RaceLogic indicated that there were no planned upgrades to the unit whatsoever. Here is the relevant portion of the post:

"Also, I asked if they ever plan to develop a unit that can handle low-impedance injectors:"

"Hi Andre,

Thank you for your enquiry.

No, sorry this isn't ever likely to happen: it would require a redeseign of the PCB and we aren't going to carry out any further development on this product.

Regards,

Mike Broadbent,
Sales Manager. - Racelogic"

XKR

iTrader: (1)

I don't mind spending the 2 or 3k so that I can use the power..... What I don't want is to spend the money and find out I need more things to make it work.....