Ross's Twin Turbo build ::PIC HEAVY::
09-09-2010, 02:26 PM
#82
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So I have a question I'm new to this forum and I'm planning on doing a similar build I'm shooting for 600 whp also I have read a few different builds and nobody says what they have done to upgrade the transmission or rear end so are you using the stock tranny? What gears are you using?
09-14-2010, 08:35 AM
#88
So this past weekend i got a "TUNE" (if it even qualifies for being called a tune). I had an appointment with injected, because I know hal knows his stuff, and I have yet to be impressed by a tuner. So far my street tunes have been far better than any dyno tune I've seen; people just either don't care or they are stupid.
Well the dyno at injected has been having issues, and my dad was getting impatient (we got his 300zx tuned as well) so he was told of this guy (leaving his name and shop out of it for now) that could tune our haltechs and that he was the best and blah blah blah. well I wanted to wait on Injected, but dad insisted so I'm like ok, i still have my appointment at injected if this doesnt go well.
first off its a dynocom dyno. tuner says it reads extremely low, lower than the average dyno dynamics and whatnot (contrary to the thread where it was called a dynoqueencom lol, but not sure if thats the case here)
Well, we rolled it on the dyno, and my street tune (using base timing off of hal's basemap) made 300whp @ 5psi, 342@10psi, and 382@ 14psi.
Long story short, out of about 15-20 pulls, only 7 of them read because supposedly my "open dumps" were messing up the dyno..... umm... ok
of the 7 pulls, 4 were baselines, so that leaves 3 for actual tuning.... hmmm
tuner stopped at 468whp. 18psi, 10* timing at peak torque, trailing to 14* at redline. oh, and on the dyno, he couldn't pull past 6500 rpm or the dyno would mess up. Also, pulls were done in 4th gear.
Car doesn't drive any better, still have terrible transient throttle issues. So at this point i just want to drive home, so i'm on the interstate, hit cruise control and my egts spike and peg out the pyrometer, i lose vacuum and afr's go all over the place. Im like wtf, sounds like retarded timing. pull up my haltech, and when i activate CC, timing goes to 1* BTDC! so i load up my street tune to get home.
so i get home and start looking at the map..
VE targets were not set up.
Tuning was done with o2 correction ON
Many maps untouched, including cam timing, injector firing angle, basically only fuel and timing were played with. A monkey can do that.
Knock control NOT set up
o2 control not set up, i had it close but not perfect.
so needless to say I'm not pleased, i would have been much better off buying dyno time and tuning it myself, and now i've got to spend more money getting another tune, because I wont let this guy won't touch my car again. However, he was as nice as could be.
My main question, for you built guys out there that are running near 18psi, how much timing are you running at 18 psi and how much power are you making?
And does anyone have much experience running dynocom dynos? i'd like to make a run on a DD to compare
Sorry for writing a book, but thanks for reading and responding. your help is appreciated!
Ross
Well the dyno at injected has been having issues, and my dad was getting impatient (we got his 300zx tuned as well) so he was told of this guy (leaving his name and shop out of it for now) that could tune our haltechs and that he was the best and blah blah blah. well I wanted to wait on Injected, but dad insisted so I'm like ok, i still have my appointment at injected if this doesnt go well.
first off its a dynocom dyno. tuner says it reads extremely low, lower than the average dyno dynamics and whatnot (contrary to the thread where it was called a dynoqueencom lol, but not sure if thats the case here)
Well, we rolled it on the dyno, and my street tune (using base timing off of hal's basemap) made 300whp @ 5psi, 342@10psi, and 382@ 14psi.
Long story short, out of about 15-20 pulls, only 7 of them read because supposedly my "open dumps" were messing up the dyno..... umm... ok
of the 7 pulls, 4 were baselines, so that leaves 3 for actual tuning.... hmmm
tuner stopped at 468whp. 18psi, 10* timing at peak torque, trailing to 14* at redline. oh, and on the dyno, he couldn't pull past 6500 rpm or the dyno would mess up. Also, pulls were done in 4th gear.
Car doesn't drive any better, still have terrible transient throttle issues. So at this point i just want to drive home, so i'm on the interstate, hit cruise control and my egts spike and peg out the pyrometer, i lose vacuum and afr's go all over the place. Im like wtf, sounds like retarded timing. pull up my haltech, and when i activate CC, timing goes to 1* BTDC! so i load up my street tune to get home.
so i get home and start looking at the map..
VE targets were not set up.
Tuning was done with o2 correction ON
Many maps untouched, including cam timing, injector firing angle, basically only fuel and timing were played with. A monkey can do that.
Knock control NOT set up
o2 control not set up, i had it close but not perfect.
so needless to say I'm not pleased, i would have been much better off buying dyno time and tuning it myself, and now i've got to spend more money getting another tune, because I wont let this guy won't touch my car again. However, he was as nice as could be.
My main question, for you built guys out there that are running near 18psi, how much timing are you running at 18 psi and how much power are you making?
And does anyone have much experience running dynocom dynos? i'd like to make a run on a DD to compare
Sorry for writing a book, but thanks for reading and responding. your help is appreciated!
Ross
Last edited by ashtrojan2008; 09-14-2010 at 08:36 AM.
09-14-2010, 09:41 AM
#89
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hmm, that sucks. Something doesn't seem right though because you are only making 10hp per psi added until you got to the 18psi.
sounds like the dyno is junk. open dumps shouldn't mess with anything and the dyno should read over 6500rpms if he wants to tune anything modern.
sounds like the dyno is junk. open dumps shouldn't mess with anything and the dyno should read over 6500rpms if he wants to tune anything modern.
09-14-2010, 10:02 AM
#90
a greddy should not even be able to run 18psi on pump gas. That would well into the 600hp range or more. Thats a good bit of timing, 14*, so it would suggest a install problem, not tuning, assuming their dyno was operating properly.
to be fair most tuners wont set the knock control. Its very time consuming. I dont even know if IP does that during the standard tune. Of course you can pay to have it done, but thats best done by you logging over a long period of time.
interesting about the cruise control. mine would cut off when I hit my turn signal. WTF!
to be fair most tuners wont set the knock control. Its very time consuming. I dont even know if IP does that during the standard tune. Of course you can pay to have it done, but thats best done by you logging over a long period of time.
interesting about the cruise control. mine would cut off when I hit my turn signal. WTF!
09-14-2010, 03:01 PM
#91
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ya, they don't tune the knock thresholds because it takes forever to do.
and ya, i was thinking the same on the timing. after talking to ross more it sounds like that dyno is jacked up. His previous numbers on another dyno sound more realistic.
The raise in hp per psi doesn't jive with me. He was getting 10hp per psi down low then all of a suddent it jumps to 20hp per psi. Doesn't make sense.
and ya, i was thinking the same on the timing. after talking to ross more it sounds like that dyno is jacked up. His previous numbers on another dyno sound more realistic.
The raise in hp per psi doesn't jive with me. He was getting 10hp per psi down low then all of a suddent it jumps to 20hp per psi. Doesn't make sense.
09-14-2010, 05:59 PM
#92
i understand the time consuming part of knock thresholds, so thats not that big of deal. I was waiting for it to be tuned to mess with it anyway.
i fixed the cruise control thing by putting vacuum areas in the timing map back into copy through. As i was telling binder earlier, when i had my utec, at 14psi timing went to 19-20* toward 7k rpm. Never had knock issues, though it was a crappy tune; more than i feel like explaining lol. Maybe we just have really good gas near the gulf
18 psi should be fine though, huh? Its only $60 for three pulls on a dyno dynamics a couple hours away, so i'll do that and let yall know whats up.
as far as transient throttle issues go, I'm beginning to think its the distance to the built in haltech map sensor, so i am going to wire up my turboxs map sensor and put it close to the intake to see if that takes out some lag
ross
i fixed the cruise control thing by putting vacuum areas in the timing map back into copy through. As i was telling binder earlier, when i had my utec, at 14psi timing went to 19-20* toward 7k rpm. Never had knock issues, though it was a crappy tune; more than i feel like explaining lol. Maybe we just have really good gas near the gulf
18 psi should be fine though, huh? Its only $60 for three pulls on a dyno dynamics a couple hours away, so i'll do that and let yall know whats up.
as far as transient throttle issues go, I'm beginning to think its the distance to the built in haltech map sensor, so i am going to wire up my turboxs map sensor and put it close to the intake to see if that takes out some lag
ross
09-15-2010, 03:59 PM
#93
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eh, i would like to say it's the distance also but i ran the internal sensor on my previous tune and it was flawless.
I'm going to switch to an external and have it really close to the manifold in high hopes this helps, but i don't have much faith since i didn't need to before.
ross, do you have any fuel rail dampners still in the car? i'm leaning more towards a fuel dampner issue since that is one of the big things that changed right around this time. We've ruled out injectors as a "problem" although large injectors will reduce driveability they are not the cause of this issue.
I'm going to switch to an external and have it really close to the manifold in high hopes this helps, but i don't have much faith since i didn't need to before.
ross, do you have any fuel rail dampners still in the car? i'm leaning more towards a fuel dampner issue since that is one of the big things that changed right around this time. We've ruled out injectors as a "problem" although large injectors will reduce driveability they are not the cause of this issue.
09-15-2010, 04:39 PM
#94
no, i dont have any fuel dampners, but i never had a problem until the haltech so I'm hoping the external map will help. the drivability isnt terrible, i just wish it was closer to how it was with the utec.
BTW the 300 made 564whp @ 21 psi pumpgas on the dynocom.
ross
BTW the 300 made 564whp @ 21 psi pumpgas on the dynocom.
ross
09-15-2010, 05:05 PM
#96
^ this maybe of interest
https://my350z.com/forum/turbos-nitr...ml#post8660458
https://my350z.com/forum/turbos-nitr...ml#post8660458
Ross
09-15-2010, 07:25 PM
#99
ya those are pretty solid pump gas timing. probably dont wanna push much more, esp if the car is really making the power it should be at that boost/timing/afr and the dyno was incorrect.
also WTF is goin on in your vid... thats not current is it?
also WTF is goin on in your vid... thats not current is it?
Last edited by str8dum1; 09-15-2010 at 07:27 PM.
09-15-2010, 07:38 PM
#100
ross