elektrik_juggernaut

For anybody who's interested.......MaxHax went to court this morning in his Small Claims Lawsuit against Force Fed Performance..........the judge ruled in favor of MaxHax and awarded him an undisclosed sum of money at the expense of Force Fed Performance........we suspect that the judgement will be for the maximum amount awardable in California Small Claims Court.......which is $5K

The counter-suit attempted by Force Fed Performance for "lost business", was shot down by the judge immediately.

Conceyted

iTrader: (7)

Truly good to hear! Glad he got something for that hell of a headache he had to deal with.

TheSVTKid

From what I have read on the Forums. I say "Poor Force Fed" And honestly laugh at the judges ruling. Symphthy must go a long way in CA courts. Just because he got the money, doesn't make him right.

:Countless Amounts of N20 run through it, prior to F/I
:Reports of N20 Line, and Fuel line backwards prior to F/I
:Car running fine when it left FF (then happens to break after customer has it)

It would be one thing if it broke on the dyno, but honestly.
Who is it say he didn't drive home, and beat the car off the rev limiter, or fill it up with 87 octane gas. Or who is to say he filled up, and the station had bad gas? Who is to say he didn't touch the FMU after leaving the shop? I am willing to bet, there isn't anyone that will know for sure. Because there wasn't anyone with the car other then Max, that was with the car the moment it left a shop, to the moment it broke. I am also willing to bet the judge didn't have a clue about F/I cars, or performance in general.

I know that Max is like a God to most of you, but Honestly there are many other Z owners and G35 owners that I talk with that think that very thing is the biggest joke. Not as a personal attack to Max (I don't know him, thus don't pass judgment) but because they have seen the two sides of the situation.

This to me smells a lot like the people that "slip" in parking lots, then sue for $$$. Yes they get money out of there "accident" but does it make it right?..........




I am sure I will get flammed for what I said. I am glad I guess that he is getting money. But I am saddend that it was at anothers expence. I am sure Force Fed will suffer greatly as a company because of this. Since it's not like small buisness's in the aftermarket industry make a lot of money. Most do it for the love of the sport, and not to get rich. The profit margins are very small, and so much overhead. Not to mention things like this situation can happen. It is honestly one of the hardest business's to make it in. There are internet wholesalers that do nothing other then ***** out parts at the cheapest possible price to make just a couple bucks off a person. When they have no overhead to cover, other then bandwidth a domain name, and maybe a fax line. Then you have people, that have the nerve to walk into Motorsports shops with LOADS of overhead, and ask them to price match. (Thank the man above that I'm not a shop owner, or I would be considered rude when I asked people to leave) So you have a shop that isn't going to make any money off the part that you bring into them, that you bought off the internet. Then when something happens bad, that has no factual evidence the place gets sued.

I guess I am just to nice, when it comes to Motorsports places cause I look at it from their point of view. Long hours, hard labor, lots of over head (dynos, tools etc) And look at the amount they have to gain from it. I'm the type of guy that when my car is getting worked on, I don't stop in, I don't call all the time, asking when the car is going to be done. I might swing in, shoot the sh*t and ask them if they would like some Pizza. So next time you are at a local shop and thinking of asking when the car is going to be done, why not call and ask if they have gotten a lunch yet today. And see where that gets you...and your car. I know it's not a perfect world, but if you have a person working on your car that you value very much. DO you want them annoyed with you, or do you want them happy with you.


I have been noticing this new trend in motorsports, now that the industry is growing. Everyone wants to be the baddest, and the fastest, and is willing to spend every last dollar they have in doing so. Then when an issue strikes, the finger gets pointed, law suits start flying. It's called MOTORSPORTS, it's trial and error and has been since the day it started. If you have an issue with that, then you need to find a different hobby. If it's a money issue where you spend your life savings on modding a car that you are still making payments on. Make sure you have enough to cover your mistakes. Or it will come back to haunt you in a big way.

I just hope that this trend starts to die down, or we are all in a world of hurt. If companys keep getting sued for others mistakes, then what company is going to want to take time/energy/money/effort into trying to keep the sport alive?

No shop is perfect, no person is perfect, No motor is perfect, life isn't perfect.



EA

PS: Before you flame me, know that I have no finacial gains from Force Fed or MaxHax. I have only heard about them from the forum, and also friends I have in CA. I have been around F/I for a long long while. Schooling as a Mech. Engineer, and answer countless PMs from people on this board for adivse on F/I with no gain other then personal satisfaction, and the love for performance. And sorry for the long read. FLAME SUIT ON

Edretti

yeah but who's to say that he wasn't bent over by this company too??? Just because a company has a good reputation doesn't mean that they never screwed up. They are human and that possibility does exist. This is why we have the beloved justice system. Leave it for a neutral person to decide who gets what. There are people that get screwed everyday over a decision of a judge too of course. Either way the judge favored his side looking at it from an outsiders point of view. Maybe he did pull one off but I know that WE will never really ever know for a fact! I've heard he's kind of nutty but you never know, maybe he was right.

Disclaimer: I gain nothing by defending maxhax here or in a circuit court of california. Any duplication of this post without prior written permission from edretti will be prosecuted within the laws of the united states of america.

N4Spd

TheSVTKid,

The judge doesn't know exactly what happened,
only maxhax and FFP know. However, WE know
even less, and what we think we know from posts
may not be all that truthful.

With that in mind, the closest truth we can rely on
is the independent judgement from someone experienced
at these kind of situations (eg. the judge). Now that
we have a ruling from a judge, we should give MaxHax
the benefit of the doubt, like it or not.

Your opinion and my opinion is at best biased,
at worst wrong, and is worthless in what matters
(money). That 5K FFP has to turn over to MaxHax
is authority!

rob

ps. That's what the court system is for! We'll fight
and die for our rights/system so we deserve to use
them. Businesses should be willing to pay liability
insurance to operate in such a civilized capitalistic system.

dougrace zs

iTrader: (2)

I am sorry to see a business suffer this type of judgement through the court system , but this is exactly what should have been done . I go so far as saying that the 5 grand that Max will get will not cover the cost of getting his new engine installed.
From all the info that I have heard and been told there is no doubt that the engine was blown up on the chassie dyno because it went to lean, it has happend to some other sc engines.
IMO IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED BETWEEN THE SHOP AND MAX BEFORE IT EVEN GOT TO THE COURTS, THE SHOP SHOULD HAVE OWNED UP TO THEIR MISTAKE AND HANDLED IT ACCORDINGLY
Good for Max

Just My Opinion Outta Be Yours

Doug

CottonWoodz

So If I put Crawford headers and plenum on, and my engine runs lean and takes a ****.... I will take you to court. You like that?
No, you would probably just buy me a new engine right?

Z Monster

let us know if he actually gets paid, or settle for the moral victory of a civil court judegement. Collecting is the hard part.

zland

There are two sides to every issue. In this case, you got a car owner that might berunning a car hard assuming like most of us, if you are running a SC and N20, you are doing it for other reasons besides mpg. The fear of any shop that does mods is just like what happened here, being held liable for possible abuse of a car after working on it.

On the other hand, a consumer should be able to expect that a product should work for its intended purpose. The person installing and tuning it should set it up to work for that purpose as well and it should be set up as the kit was designed to be set up.

The real question is, was this car being used within the range of acceptable use. The part that tends to make me side against Max is the SC was not designed to operate with a 9lb pulley and not in conjuction with N20. The kit was designed to be used with a stock motor at 7lbs boost with the stock rev limiter. If I was the judge, I would have most likely not held the shop responsible for those conditions. On the other hand, if it was my shop, I would have not worked on it with that set up because of the risk or have Max sign a waiver releasing all liabilty due to the boost and N20.

TheSVTKid

N4SPD: Good point, and thanks for not flaming to bad

DOUGRACE ZS: Your saying that if that car would have left your place, after dynoing safe A/F's and Great power, You would pay for a motor and laybor? Even after the car was returned to you days later blown up. If thats true, thats a pretty bold statement to put on the internet. I sincerly hope people don't take advantage of that offer. You could get people showing up with wounded cars, knowing if it breaks at your place it will be covered.

My last thing to say about this entire situation......
You'll win some, you'll lose some.......Though Both partys lost in this situation.

EA

elektrik_juggernaut

The 9 pound pulley was never installed, and N2O was not used after the S/C was installed......he sold his N2O setup, and the 9 pound pulleys are still in his garage

Glasgow Smile

iTrader: (1)

Off Topic...but.

elektrik_juggernaut, do you watch FLCL!?

Edretti

svt kid hit it on the nose...everyone lost in this decision!

Ben Davis

1: The argument that he "pushed his car" is inane, of course he psuhed the car, the entire point fo goin to force fed is to be able to push the car FURTHER

2: Why does everyone assume that the INDAVIDUAL is to blame, if anything corporations are in a better position to settle and make themselves look better by offering customer service, theuir denial hurt them more than the blown motor IMO

3:Headers and Plenium?!?!?! cmon look at the context here.... IF you paid him for parts, labor and tunig then yes, but to my knowledge instal is left to the purchaser to sort out.

jeffw

I'd definitely be worried about this. I think it's quite common to see people step up from Nitrous to turbo or superchargers. The bad thing is that if the nitrous kit is removed, the shop installing the supercharger will never know. If the nitrous kit caused damage that is not immediately obvious, well.....


If I ran a performance shop, I think I'd pull the spark plugs and inspect each cylinder with a fiber optic scope (http://www.uxr.com/fiberscopes1.htm). Also, make the customer give you an oil sample for an oil analysis (http://www.herguth.com/motor-oil-analysis.htm). If the visual inspection and oil lab test pass then move forward with the supercharger install.

After that, the risk should fall to your insurance plan.

--
Jeff

myG35zx

iTrader: (2)

I am very pro-business. It sounds like, and due to the outcome most likely IS, the company's fault. They had a chance to defend themselves. Bringout all the evidence. I am sure they new about the nitrous and am sure they new the FI install was botched.

They screwed up and lost a little money. Not enough, mind you, to pay for actual damages. But atleast he got some. The lesson I learned is not to bring my G to anyone excpet those that have installed the same product on the same car and is recommended by those that own the car and product. I'm sure there is more to learn.

Either way, I would like to see Max back! His experiences have taught all of us. If he apologized to the powers that be, maybe he could get a second chance.

I like boards where I learn tricks and mods. People like Max enable this to happen. Yes it got nasty for a while. Frankly though, if my car got screwed I'm not sure how I would handle myself. Maybe thats the bottom line. Until you are facing the delima, maybe we should relax, learn and welcome Max back.

ares

iTrader: (2)

are you saying what happened to maxs car was the norm for that shop? if the shop had a negative history it would be a more convincing story, but I dont know very much(didnt follow the story) but I believe the shop prior to this had many satisfied customers.

none the less, they must have screwed up on this one, or maybe not, maybe it was just an accident, maybe there was a small flaw in the engine from the factory that the boost inflamed.

from what I understand the SC kit is almost a extremely complicated bolt on, how much is there to screw up? I mean they didnt put the pipes on backwords or something right?

most likely IMO this was neither max's or the shops fault, maybe it was the procharger, their line was out of spec when that kit was produced, thus causing damage by its faulty operation. or nissans engine.

owell, the shop will live another day, 5000 wont kill them, hopefully theyll take this as a wake up call to be a bit more careful, they can be held responsible for what happens to their work. and it will offset some of the cost of a new engine for max.

sadly the 2 places I see as at fault here are clean(nissan obviously is clean, because it didnt break till boost was applied, tho we would like to hope all engines can handle it, they do not gaurentee it, so no liability there...)

however procharger should be responsible for finding out what went wrong with their product, or atleast point out where in the install the problem was caused.

hfm

iTrader: (1)

Good for Max.

cbsuper

Thing is, Crawford didn't tell you to put the parts on your car so you do so at your own risk. Max didn't sue ATI, he sued ForceFed, the company that installed and tuned the car.

If there were multiple ATI's that were bad, then yes, I would expect ATI to investigate, but it seems that in Max's case it was bad tuning.

TheSVTKid

Good news if you like having an scape goat, for decisions to mod a car. If anything goes wrong with your car, just sue!



If everyone had that attitude, this industry would fold in a matter of months. No person in their right mind would have a small buisness with that looming over their head.

I don't think a personal attack is needed. Just because my name says "kid" doesn't mean I am 15, It was a nick name in college.

I was just pointing out that Modding a car past OEM is YOUR decision, no shop, dealer, or person put a gun to your head and told you to do it. But yet, even if you go home and "fiddle with FMU settings" and blow up the motor, we should all go sue the shop. Hows that make sence? It doesn't, because there are no witnesses, no evidence, no proof. If this was a murder case, it would have been based on all specuation, and we know how far that gets things.

My post was to show that both Max, and FF lost in the end. The judgment really didn't prove anything or solve anything.

My long post was to show that having a strong relationship with a shop helps the sport grow, and chances of error on your car to decrease. When you bounce from shop to shop, looking for the best deal, each shop has NO idea what the other shop before did or why. They can only do their best to guess, and pray they don't get held liable for something they didn't do.

Personal attacks are not needed, I'm done with this thread.

EA