Ok, so i've been doing my install on the boosted performance kit. I have the precision 6765 billet turbo.

This isn't a problem with the kit, i think it's a problem with what i did so i'm in no way saying there is an issue with the kit.

First off, i installed everything and cranked the car a few times to prime the oil pump (turbowerks gear pump). Unfortunately i didn't realize that it didn't prime and took it for a drive. I fogged the neighborhood and oil was pouring out of the overflow on the turbo oil res. It was also coming out of my vband area on my downpipe. I took the pump off and manually primed it and put it back on. It was working fine because when i let the car idle i put my finger over the vent on the oil res and it had a vacuum on it and also the oil wasn't overflowing (obvious reason the pump was working). I drove the car do the exhaust shop and had my downpipe mated to my dual exhaust. on the way home my friend noticed a small amount of white/blue smoke. No biggy. We decided to take it for a quick spin to check it out. A little bit of smoke developed and it would smoke at stop lights. it wasn't pouring out but it was enough to be noticable.

Get it back in the garage, no overflow of oil but i did notice a couple of oil drops at the downpipe vband clamp meaning there is oil coming out the turbine housing. I haven't taken the intake off to see if there is oil in there yet.

info needed:
I have a filter on the drivers valve cover, i have the plenum vent area blocked off. The passenger pcv valve goes to a catch can that is vented. I have no vent lines going to my charge pipes.
turbowerks oil pump is working properly now because oil isn't overflowing. Feed line is a 3an line with no restrictors.

so the seals on a turbo are ring seals so not like a normal seal. i know oil was pushed past the seal when i didn't have the pump primed but i'm not sure if that would damage a ring seal (since it's not like a rubber seal). Would the turbo still be burning off some of that oil from the first issue?

i'm kind of at a loss at what to do. I don't want to pull the turbo and ship it out for nothing if someone has knowledge on what this can be but so far it all points to the turbine seal on the turbo. I just find it hard to believe it would fail after oil being pushed through 1 time. From what i've read they usually fail due to high miles on them and damage to the ring seal or groove it rides in.

I'm going to call precision tomorrow about this and see what they say.

thanks for any help people can offer on if this is a bad seal or if it's just left over oil still burning. Also, it's not the engine because i've never had an ounce of smoke with my vortech so it's odd that all of a sudden the engine would start smoking randomly. i have maybe 20-30 minutes total runtime on this turbo so far.

 

Jeff, I am back from camping now..

I was thinking about this last night and today...and just don't think the seals could be blown. If the oil was pouring out of the breather, the turbo seals never saw significant pressur. This would mean that they would not blow.

I know you mentioned that you had the breather capped at first, how long did you run it like that.

Even with it capped, the oil would have made it's way in to the line going from the reservoir to the scavenge pump. The pump would still be drawing vacuum even though it would not be enough to suck the oil, it would not be a dead restrictor.

Did you make sure that all the bolts on the back of the turbine housing are tight? Including the smaller 10mm bolts.

If there is a problem with the turbo, the kit is still under warranty so we will work something out.

 

Possible left over oil from the 'spill' slowly burning off? Hopefully?

 

hmm, what 10mm bolts?! I tightened some 1/2" bolts back there but I don't remember any 10mm ones. I'll have to check tomorrow.

now that I'm thinking about it I can't really remember how lng that cap was on there. I'm thinking I took it off after I let the car idle in the garage to check leaks. I don't think I left it on there for the first test drive but I might have. Either way there was enough to get oil into the turbine housing becuz it was burning it. Not sure if some oil going past the seal would ruin it all together in that short of time though. I'm new to turbos.

maybe I do have some on the cold side that is still getting sucked through. I'll check tomorrow evening. Swamped with midterms the next 2 days so I can definitely tear into it further tuwsday evening.

I'm not worried about seals really. I'm just tryig to make sure I don't send off a turbo and them say it's fine and still have to figure out what I've jacked up on my setup to make it smoke.

 

If there was oil in the turbine housing, it will sit there for a bit. You going in to boost will get it all out. Even with the breather completly closed, the seal will not blow. If the turbo oil drain was pluged, then yes, the oil would go throgh the seals.

I was thinking about these bolts (circled) but they would not cause that type of leak. I had my 6162 turbo leak beside the oil reservoir, and it ended up being those. The leak was to the outside though.

I can't remember if they were 10mm or 11mm (7/16").






It may be a good idea to drop the turbo, remove the turbine husing and do a visual.

If you remove the V-band clamp, and the 2 up pipe bolts that exhaust section will come out in 10 minutes, giving you all the room you need to service the turbo on a bench. Like so (this is with the down pipe, you can just remove the V-band though):

 

Bin,

Just FYI...SP was chasing down an electrical gremlin this time around. So there was a fair amount of cranking, without my oil sump pump coming on thus putting a lot of oil in the turbo sump reservoir and turbos themselves...

Upon fixing the electrical gremlin Larry said it took 2 full hours of running car on dyno (while doing drivability tune) before it stopped smoking.

Tom

 

so some oil coming out the seals into the housings won't kill the turbos then. I guess I'll take the coldside off and check for oil tomorrow and if I don't have any I'll take it for a long drive and see if it starts to clear up.

that makes me feel better tom. I was beginning to think "blwing the seals" wasn't a possibility after I saw the design and that they are a ring type seal.

 

If it doesn't clear up, I will cover the rebuild cost. I really don't think it is blown....so let me know.

 

man, that's some good customer service. I wish intense was that willing to help me out. THe only time they answer my pms is when I want to order parts. If I knew that the mid size turbo setup was capable of making +500 then I wouldn't have wasted my time getting the powerlab gt35r. Props to u for a nice ST product and great customer service.

 

i would think warranty would cover it if there is an issue. I'm not sweating the cost of rebuild if it needs it.

 

your neighborhood should protest and say " should of listened to Vas to manualy prime it "

anyway..I have noticed this too.. I do not have the same issue as Jeff does.. but It does smoke a little bit after the car has been shut off for 1+ hours or when I take it out in the am.. I guess oil is just sitting in the housing.. It smokes for about like, not even 5 min.. when I drive it and get into a little bit of boost it starts to smoke ( I can see it) and then it stops.. I can do countless WOT pulls and no smoke at all.. going in boost and off boost or even at idle, nothing.

Even after the car has been off for more than 1 hr and cooled.. it still doesnt smoke at start up.. like I said ^ only when I drive...

Im in no worry, I am going to go under there today and check the 10mm bolts and see if everything is tight. Anyway.

I doubt its the seals though.. theres barely any miles .. and precision has good customer service.. a buddy of mine has precision turbos and they covered his problems under warranty with no questions asked.

And the BP 1 year warranty is sick

 

Thanks for sharing Vas.

I don't see any smoked at any time on my car. I think if you were to run a breather hose from the oil reservoir to a catch can, you would not see any smoke at all.

The small breather filter may be geting saturated by oil vapor, and now allowing air through when the car just sits there. Just a thought.

 

Thanks. Customer service is #1 IMO. I answer all PM's, no matter what the questions are.

I am more than confident that the standard turbo kit will get you in to the mid 500's without an issue. The turbo is larger than the GT35r, and the billet wheels will flow plenty. You will not have any back pressure issues with the T4 either, and thre are many housings to choose from.

 

I've (inadvertantly) blocked off my crankcase ventilation and had oil literally pour out of my turbos with my car looking like a space shuttle, at idle. After fixing the plumbing and flushing out my ICs with a garden hose, the smoking stopped. I don't think the turbo seals were harmed.

 

I do plan to get a catch can soon... wouldnt the hose be very long to bring it al the way to the engine bay?

 

not really. 5 ft at most, if you mount the catch can low then more like 3-4 ft.

I have my valvecovers vented to atmosphere so that shouldn't be an issue with me (plus the fact that its' not a gravity drain it's a pump drain from the turbo).

Vas, the prob is either like sasha said or what you have is a tiny amount of oil that is seeping past the seals when it sits for prolonged periods then you burn that off when you start. Based on what i've learned of these "seals" that is perfectly normal. These aren't really seals like you think. They are just like piston rings of an engine. To seal they need pressure therefore when the car is off there is no pressure creating that ring seal and oil can seep past them.

I also have noticed, wheni took the filter off and let the car idle. I shut the car down then turn the pump on for 30 seconds. If you wait 20 minutes there is enough oil that continues to drain that it will overflow the res again. it doesn't overflow on yours due to the vent extension piece so that means oil is sitting in you vent hose.

The way i've figured to prevent this is to hook a turbo timer up ONLY to the oil pump and let it run for a fill minute after the car is turned off. That should clear it without problems and you won't have to cycle the key or wait for it.

The more i think about this the more i'm thinking i have oil left in my pipes which is slowly burning off. When i pull all the pipes to fix my engine oil drain pipe (bastard thing) i'll clean them out and heat wrap them.

 

just have BP make you a larger reservoir. The SP and SFR ones hold over 1 qt and it never smokes.

 

I have the same reservoir, and no smoking...ever.

Length is irrelevant, as it is just a breather. 6' of 3/8" fuel line hose would probably be enough, or something equevelant.

 

So i've been emailing one of the guys at precision.

He told me that my return line is insufficient. He said with or without a pump it needs to be no less than 10an. ??

i even told him that no oil is overflowing from the resevour when the pump is running and he said that doesn't mean it isn't backing up inside the turbo. So wait, he's telling me that oil is backing up in the turbo, but my res is still empty. wtf? I thought precision turbo people were supposed to be smart.

 

Clearly he does not know wtf he is talking about. I have the same set up, with a smaller pump (flow) and never have issues. He is confusing gravity drain and pump.

If you deliver oil with a -3an line the -6 is more than enough to take the oil away. I have talked to those guys a few times, and there were times when I thought "you guys are suposed to know more than that", being a manufacturer and all.


Jeff, did you run the line from reservoir to turbo under the trany brace?

I should mention that the Turbowerks pumps come with a 1/2" npt to -6an adapters. This set up is used on many TT applications, so the -6an will flow plenty.

EDIT:

With the smaller pump that I have on my car, I did some testing on this a long time ago. I plumbed a boost vac gauge to the line going from the turbo drain to the pump. I held revs to about 4500rpm for about a minute, the line from turbo to pump still had -12hg on the gauge. This tells me that even with the engine oil pressure pushing all that oil in, the pump is still creating vacuum inside the oil line and moving much more oil than the engine is delivering. This was with a -4and line and no restrictor.

I even have a picture of it:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...E/S1031284.jpg

The clear line is going to the gauge, which was in my hand on the drivers seat.