When is a twin pump needed?
07-08-2010, 06:34 PM
#82
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For me Pro-EFI monitors fuel pressure...if pressure goes down it starts pulling timing and whatnot.
I'm sure pretty much all EMS's can do this at some level (may need additional sensor).
Tom
I'm sure pretty much all EMS's can do this at some level (may need additional sensor).
Tom
07-09-2010, 07:05 AM
#85
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rich is right, if only a single pump fails inside the twin, it will give the same results as losing the inline.
i still fear the inline though.
if you setup a lean boost cut it should cover your bases
07-09-2010, 07:19 AM
#86
damn this is lose lose situation 
I wish I could say the gt35r will make +600whp on pump + meth but I doubt it (~550 maybe).
Do I need to really spend +1200 for a twin pump setup when my inline pump + 1 single intank + cjm hardline will do the trick?
At the end, I have to get the vpro to be on top of it when the a/f gets wack and to kill boost. Is that something I need to hardwire an output or can the tuner just program it in?
I wish I could say the gt35r will make +600whp on pump + meth but I doubt it (~550 maybe).
Do I need to really spend +1200 for a twin pump setup when my inline pump + 1 single intank + cjm hardline will do the trick?
At the end, I have to get the vpro to be on top of it when the a/f gets wack and to kill boost. Is that something I need to hardwire an output or can the tuner just program it in?
Last edited by Mr_pharmD; 07-09-2010 at 07:22 AM.
07-09-2010, 09:37 AM
#87
unless you are planning to run race gas or E85, there's no reason to do anything beyond the single intank walbro the the return fuel system.
If your AITs are like james's were, all the fuel in the world wont matter one bit except for dyno bragging right.
If your AITs are like james's were, all the fuel in the world wont matter one bit except for dyno bragging right.
07-09-2010, 09:41 AM
#88
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well, there are a few ways to do it.
here is what i'm going to do with mysetup since i only hav ea generic output on haltech. i'm going to put a relay on my wastegate solenoid ground (the signal wire for the solenoid). I'll wire my generic output to that relay and set it up in the controls that at higher than 4psi and greater than 12.0 a/f it will activate that relay which will cut the signal to my boost solenoid therefore dropping my boost pressure to wastegate spring.
You could also put a solenoid inline with your BOV and then have that solenoid open to atmosphere at a desired a/f which would allow the BOV to open (since the boost in the charge pipe would blow it open) and take you down to a full zero psi.
truthfully the inline setup with hardline should be ok as long as you have a safety.
Did you personally talk to charles? for the things you need i'm definitely not seeing over 1000$ (retail) so is the 1200$ you threw out there a random number?
Also, remember that the guy made 520hp on straight pump gas on a DJ dyno. His intake temps were up in the 180's so if you throw meth on that it will lower intake temps therefore you can tuner higher timing, then also since the octane is higher you can tune higher timing. You might not get 600, but i have no doubt with meth you should get 550 easily.
also, who's not to say your setup might be stronger than his. every car is different. and don't forget, just because 550 isn't much over the 530 you put down, you'll put down much more torque and you'll put it down a lot earlier in the powerband so it will be a more usable power.
here is what i'm going to do with mysetup since i only hav ea generic output on haltech. i'm going to put a relay on my wastegate solenoid ground (the signal wire for the solenoid). I'll wire my generic output to that relay and set it up in the controls that at higher than 4psi and greater than 12.0 a/f it will activate that relay which will cut the signal to my boost solenoid therefore dropping my boost pressure to wastegate spring.
You could also put a solenoid inline with your BOV and then have that solenoid open to atmosphere at a desired a/f which would allow the BOV to open (since the boost in the charge pipe would blow it open) and take you down to a full zero psi.
truthfully the inline setup with hardline should be ok as long as you have a safety.
Did you personally talk to charles? for the things you need i'm definitely not seeing over 1000$ (retail) so is the 1200$ you threw out there a random number?
Also, remember that the guy made 520hp on straight pump gas on a DJ dyno. His intake temps were up in the 180's so if you throw meth on that it will lower intake temps therefore you can tuner higher timing, then also since the octane is higher you can tune higher timing. You might not get 600, but i have no doubt with meth you should get 550 easily.
also, who's not to say your setup might be stronger than his. every car is different. and don't forget, just because 550 isn't much over the 530 you put down, you'll put down much more torque and you'll put it down a lot earlier in the powerband so it will be a more usable power.
07-09-2010, 10:55 AM
#89
we got to talk more later on about the solenoid option when I get the final pricing for the twin pump setup from Charles. He says retail it should cost around 1200 but he might be able to knock a few bucks down (not including hardline). He also told me that bc the twin pumps run parallel that in theory, if 1 pump dies, the other pump should still be able to max out at 600...but I will never know for sure unless I test it on the dyno.
As for James' setup, he was running only pump so with a combination of pump + meth (500ml/min - not sure if I should go bigger) I should be able to get AIT down to run more boost (18-20psi) and timing. The 35r seems to max out at 650whp so if I can get my AIT down then I dont see why I wont be able to get close to 580?
As for James' setup, he was running only pump so with a combination of pump + meth (500ml/min - not sure if I should go bigger) I should be able to get AIT down to run more boost (18-20psi) and timing. The 35r seems to max out at 650whp so if I can get my AIT down then I dont see why I wont be able to get close to 580?
well, there are a few ways to do it.
here is what i'm going to do with mysetup since i only hav ea generic output on haltech. i'm going to put a relay on my wastegate solenoid ground (the signal wire for the solenoid). I'll wire my generic output to that relay and set it up in the controls that at higher than 4psi and greater than 12.0 a/f it will activate that relay which will cut the signal to my boost solenoid therefore dropping my boost pressure to wastegate spring.
You could also put a solenoid inline with your BOV and then have that solenoid open to atmosphere at a desired a/f which would allow the BOV to open (since the boost in the charge pipe would blow it open) and take you down to a full zero psi.
truthfully the inline setup with hardline should be ok as long as you have a safety.
Did you personally talk to charles? for the things you need i'm definitely not seeing over 1000$ (retail) so is the 1200$ you threw out there a random number?
Also, remember that the guy made 520hp on straight pump gas on a DJ dyno. His intake temps were up in the 180's so if you throw meth on that it will lower intake temps therefore you can tuner higher timing, then also since the octane is higher you can tune higher timing. You might not get 600, but i have no doubt with meth you should get 550 easily.
also, who's not to say your setup might be stronger than his. every car is different. and don't forget, just because 550 isn't much over the 530 you put down, you'll put down much more torque and you'll put it down a lot earlier in the powerband so it will be a more usable power.
here is what i'm going to do with mysetup since i only hav ea generic output on haltech. i'm going to put a relay on my wastegate solenoid ground (the signal wire for the solenoid). I'll wire my generic output to that relay and set it up in the controls that at higher than 4psi and greater than 12.0 a/f it will activate that relay which will cut the signal to my boost solenoid therefore dropping my boost pressure to wastegate spring.
You could also put a solenoid inline with your BOV and then have that solenoid open to atmosphere at a desired a/f which would allow the BOV to open (since the boost in the charge pipe would blow it open) and take you down to a full zero psi.
truthfully the inline setup with hardline should be ok as long as you have a safety.
Did you personally talk to charles? for the things you need i'm definitely not seeing over 1000$ (retail) so is the 1200$ you threw out there a random number?
Also, remember that the guy made 520hp on straight pump gas on a DJ dyno. His intake temps were up in the 180's so if you throw meth on that it will lower intake temps therefore you can tuner higher timing, then also since the octane is higher you can tune higher timing. You might not get 600, but i have no doubt with meth you should get 550 easily.
also, who's not to say your setup might be stronger than his. every car is different. and don't forget, just because 550 isn't much over the 530 you put down, you'll put down much more torque and you'll put it down a lot earlier in the powerband so it will be a more usable power.
07-11-2010, 05:38 AM
#91
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Binder...I just got a tune with the single pump. At higher RPM the single pump having problem delivery fuel so Hal run some meth to help with fuel fluctuate. If I added the twin pump now, do I need to retune? I would think yes, but can I go without a re-tune? Hal is 9 hours from my place 
07-11-2010, 11:23 AM
#93
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ya, strange hal would tune meth too. he was against it with my setup which pushed me to a twin pump for safety.
do you already have a stage 2 from cjm? if you do then using a twin pump won't change anything. If you upgrade your lines to get more flow to the rails you might have to tweak your fuel slightly but not much. If anything it would be on the rich side which won't hurt.
do you already have a stage 2 from cjm? if you do then using a twin pump won't change anything. If you upgrade your lines to get more flow to the rails you might have to tweak your fuel slightly but not much. If anything it would be on the rich side which won't hurt.
07-11-2010, 11:26 AM
#94
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Well It's only get fluctuated at higher psi like 18psi - 20psi. So he said he only tuned to 16 psi and with some meth, but if I want to go higher than that then i have to get twin pump and maybe 1000cc to max out the Greddy kit.
07-11-2010, 11:29 AM
#95
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I do have the CJM stage 2. So what you are saying is that twin pump wont help with the fuel pressure, unless I get bigger lines? I thought the twin pump was supposed to be work with the stage 2 without upgrading lines?
ya, strange hal would tune meth too. he was against it with my setup which pushed me to a twin pump for safety.
do you already have a stage 2 from cjm? if you do then using a twin pump won't change anything. If you upgrade your lines to get more flow to the rails you might have to tweak your fuel slightly but not much. If anything it would be on the rich side which won't hurt.
do you already have a stage 2 from cjm? if you do then using a twin pump won't change anything. If you upgrade your lines to get more flow to the rails you might have to tweak your fuel slightly but not much. If anything it would be on the rich side which won't hurt.
07-11-2010, 11:40 AM
#96
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i said if you had small lines and upgraded them then it would flow better therefore possibly requiring a slight adjustment in the map. If all you did was add a twin pump then the fuel map will stay the same except for up top when the fuel pressure normally would die out.
fuel pressure is dying out on yours because the pump can't keep up therefore the engine is basically "sucking" the fuel from the lines which drops pressure. Adding a second pump to increase flow means that the pumps are flowing more than the engine pulls.
pm me for further questions so we don't mess up this thread.
07-12-2010, 06:03 AM
#100
dyno numbers
I hope you hit your numbers with the addition of the meth kit. I have been on hold until I see the results from someone else's project with the powerlab kit. The use of meth is a real guessing game at this point. It can yield anywhere from 0 -100 whp depending on the app. If the turbo/ turbo kit is running out of it's effective range, I don't think we will see huge results. Also, If you decide to go to another turbo, I would go big because you will be looking at the cost of the turbo, install time, retune time; and if you achieve more than your current fuel system can handle, you will most likely have the cost of bigger injectors, the twin pump, new lines, install of the twin pump/new lines and then more tuning. It all adds up very quickly.
Last edited by james12345pt; 07-12-2010 at 11:11 AM.