Brian Crower 4.15L + APS Extreme Turbo Kit Build
12-13-2010, 07:40 PM
#103
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (87)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I appreciate the support guys! A little good news, Hal and Eddie did a smoke test today to check for leaks, there was a pretty big one coming from one of the couplers. At about 1/4psi, smoke was pouring out of it. The clamp was tight, but I guess the seal was bad They changed the clamp and the problem was fixed.
They need double checked all of the injector o-rings and intake bolts and put it back on the dyno. It made more power (around 460whp/450trq). I am not sure was psi this was on. I think they were just testing to see if they could have potentially fixed the major issue. However, Hal seems to think the boost control solenoid was acting up. Of course it is supposed to keep a constant value, but you could hear that it definitely wasn't. So, tomorrow they are going to probably replace it and then try the dyno again. It does seem like today was very productive though. The turbo's may not have to come off after all.
The injectors are going to run out of fuel soon though, so that may be my next upgrade. I am making sure all of the other problems are fixed though. I will provide an update as soon as I hear!
They need double checked all of the injector o-rings and intake bolts and put it back on the dyno. It made more power (around 460whp/450trq). I am not sure was psi this was on. I think they were just testing to see if they could have potentially fixed the major issue. However, Hal seems to think the boost control solenoid was acting up. Of course it is supposed to keep a constant value, but you could hear that it definitely wasn't. So, tomorrow they are going to probably replace it and then try the dyno again. It does seem like today was very productive though. The turbo's may not have to come off after all.
The injectors are going to run out of fuel soon though, so that may be my next upgrade. I am making sure all of the other problems are fixed though. I will provide an update as soon as I hear!
12-16-2010, 05:26 PM
#104
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (87)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for updates, it seems as if the turbos will have to come off. With the coupler leak fixed and a new boost control solenoid in, the car made the same power it did before (around 480whp). However, the turbos seem to be doing really funny things. They are surging. It seems as if one turbo is pushing more than the other which is causing this. The boost curve looks crazy. When building boost the line looks like a serrated edge, spikes everywhere, then it somewhat levels out to a long wave lol. Basically, something has to be wrong with one if not both of the turbos. The 480 was at 13-18psi. This is how bad the change is during the runs.
The next step is to drop the engine and take a look at the turbos. We are really hoping there is a tell tell sign once we do this, so that we know exactly which one it is, etc. If not, we will just ship both turbos out and have them examined and fixed.
Ok guys, Eddie got the motor out!
His way is a little bit easier/faster than our way lol
Got the turbo's off
There was a pretty good amount of play in one of the turbos. We are going to replace the cartridges and then hopefully all should be good!
Also, since I have been ice'd in, Stephen and me got my headliner and other pillar wrapped in suede. I think it came out pretty good considering it was the first time we did it. I am also going to have the sun visors wrapped
The next step is to drop the engine and take a look at the turbos. We are really hoping there is a tell tell sign once we do this, so that we know exactly which one it is, etc. If not, we will just ship both turbos out and have them examined and fixed.
Ok guys, Eddie got the motor out!
His way is a little bit easier/faster than our way lol
Got the turbo's off
There was a pretty good amount of play in one of the turbos. We are going to replace the cartridges and then hopefully all should be good!
Also, since I have been ice'd in, Stephen and me got my headliner and other pillar wrapped in suede. I think it came out pretty good considering it was the first time we did it. I am also going to have the sun visors wrapped
01-03-2011, 05:11 PM
#109
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (87)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dynosty's shop is always in mint condition. They would sure argue that it is not and that it is messy, but they are just crazy!
As for updates, got the turbo's shipped out last week, they are arriving at the location on the 4th.. Hopefully, it won't take too long to have them fixed. I am also hoping that once they are mounted back, there are no more issues!
As for goodies, I have a couple things left that need to be installed:
Got the new Haltech Dual AFR gauge from Injected instead of the old single one. They had a great Introductory price going on with it and it will help me monitor both banks in realtime instead of just one (Ryan, if you don't want the image up please let me know, I will take it down).
Also have Defi gauges (boost, oil pressure, water temp, fuel pressure) that I am going to replace my stock gauge mounting locations with and put one in the cubby next to the haltech one.
Had two old takata harnesses that I sold. Ended up buying one single newer 6 point one.
I have no harness bar yet. Trying to save up the cash. It will not be for a while unfortunately.
No other real updates, just waiting on the turbos. I don't think I mentioned, but I took off the turbos from my original APS kit (the tuner one) and felt the shaft. There was absolutely no shaft play in comparison to the extreme kit I have now. Which is a good sign that it is just the turbos. I am hoping for mid to upper 500rwhp until I run out of injectors.
More updates as they come!
As for updates, got the turbo's shipped out last week, they are arriving at the location on the 4th.. Hopefully, it won't take too long to have them fixed. I am also hoping that once they are mounted back, there are no more issues!
As for goodies, I have a couple things left that need to be installed:
Got the new Haltech Dual AFR gauge from Injected instead of the old single one. They had a great Introductory price going on with it and it will help me monitor both banks in realtime instead of just one (Ryan, if you don't want the image up please let me know, I will take it down).
Also have Defi gauges (boost, oil pressure, water temp, fuel pressure) that I am going to replace my stock gauge mounting locations with and put one in the cubby next to the haltech one.
Had two old takata harnesses that I sold. Ended up buying one single newer 6 point one.
I have no harness bar yet. Trying to save up the cash. It will not be for a while unfortunately.
No other real updates, just waiting on the turbos. I don't think I mentioned, but I took off the turbos from my original APS kit (the tuner one) and felt the shaft. There was absolutely no shaft play in comparison to the extreme kit I have now. Which is a good sign that it is just the turbos. I am hoping for mid to upper 500rwhp until I run out of injectors.
More updates as they come!
01-03-2011, 06:23 PM
#111
where did you have to send the turbos to? hopefully not APS cuz you prolly wont see them til next year.
seems like the Haltech dual AFR is just a rebadged VEI. too bad we didnt see this sooner
http://www.veisystems.com/d1-wbmwbm-m.html cuz we coulda had dual WB gauges when haltech released their dual wideband setup. Good thing is that the haltech ones are the same price or cheaper.
One thing I never got an answer for is even though you have dual widebands, there isnt automatic bank specific O2 correction as far as I can tell. So it makes having 2 widebands pretty pointless, unless your tuner spends the time to do the 6 individual bank specific trims manually (time consuming and expensive!). You can have a difference in O2 readings between banks, but the Haltech doesnt care and I assume just averages the signal and adjusts from there.
seems like the Haltech dual AFR is just a rebadged VEI. too bad we didnt see this sooner
http://www.veisystems.com/d1-wbmwbm-m.html cuz we coulda had dual WB gauges when haltech released their dual wideband setup. Good thing is that the haltech ones are the same price or cheaper.
One thing I never got an answer for is even though you have dual widebands, there isnt automatic bank specific O2 correction as far as I can tell. So it makes having 2 widebands pretty pointless, unless your tuner spends the time to do the 6 individual bank specific trims manually (time consuming and expensive!). You can have a difference in O2 readings between banks, but the Haltech doesnt care and I assume just averages the signal and adjusts from there.
Last edited by str8dum1; 01-03-2011 at 06:31 PM.
01-04-2011, 05:33 AM
#113
str8dum1, let me correct some of the misinformation you have posted here.
First, there was a wideband gauge available when the dual wideband controller was first released. It was a single readout, but for quick reference this is all you need, as Haltech displays, logs and adjusts both banks in the software. The original supplier (who was a HUGE gauge supplier) went under, but we are excited to have found a new manufacturer (after testing many) that can produce a quality gauge in both single and dual readout.
Second, the Haltech 350Z box has bank-specific O2 correction, since the beginning. Having dual widebands is beneficial not only to view the difference in the banks, but also for tuning and bank-specific o2 correction. In many cases I see Z's that run as much as 5+% different between the banks at idle and cruise, and I watch as the Haltech o2 correction brings BOTH banks, individually, to my target a/f ratio. If your car is not taking advantage of bank specific o2 correction, I would suggest you talk to your installer/tuner about setting that up.
The turbos did not go to APS, they went to a Garrett distributor who will handle the CHRA swap and any cleanup if needed.
abushong504, hang in there buddy - we are almost there!
First, there was a wideband gauge available when the dual wideband controller was first released. It was a single readout, but for quick reference this is all you need, as Haltech displays, logs and adjusts both banks in the software. The original supplier (who was a HUGE gauge supplier) went under, but we are excited to have found a new manufacturer (after testing many) that can produce a quality gauge in both single and dual readout.
Second, the Haltech 350Z box has bank-specific O2 correction, since the beginning. Having dual widebands is beneficial not only to view the difference in the banks, but also for tuning and bank-specific o2 correction. In many cases I see Z's that run as much as 5+% different between the banks at idle and cruise, and I watch as the Haltech o2 correction brings BOTH banks, individually, to my target a/f ratio. If your car is not taking advantage of bank specific o2 correction, I would suggest you talk to your installer/tuner about setting that up.
The turbos did not go to APS, they went to a Garrett distributor who will handle the CHRA swap and any cleanup if needed.
abushong504, hang in there buddy - we are almost there!
01-04-2011, 06:30 AM
#115
I meant that dual gauge has been available for years from VEI, when you were only selling that single readout version. When your single readout company went under, people were looking for a solution in the meantime. Poeple tried the universal prosport with not great results. Now that you guys have a new gauge its a moot point.
Thanks for the correction on the bank specific adjustment. I was misinformed that the single O2 correction drop down, only allowed for sweeping O2 control.
Good to know
Ya thank goodness they didnt go to APS. HAHA, it would be a never ending project.
Thanks for the correction on the bank specific adjustment. I was misinformed that the single O2 correction drop down, only allowed for sweeping O2 control.
Good to know
Ya thank goodness they didnt go to APS. HAHA, it would be a never ending project.
str8dum1, let me correct some of the misinformation you have posted here.
First, there was a wideband gauge available when the dual wideband controller was first released. It was a single readout, but for quick reference this is all you need, as Haltech displays, logs and adjusts both banks in the software. The original supplier (who was a HUGE gauge supplier) went under, but we are excited to have found a new manufacturer (after testing many) that can produce a quality gauge in both single and dual readout.
Second, the Haltech 350Z box has bank-specific O2 correction, since the beginning. Having dual widebands is beneficial not only to view the difference in the banks, but also for tuning and bank-specific o2 correction. In many cases I see Z's that run as much as 5+% different between the banks at idle and cruise, and I watch as the Haltech o2 correction brings BOTH banks, individually, to my target a/f ratio. If your car is not taking advantage of bank specific o2 correction, I would suggest you talk to your installer/tuner about setting that up.
The turbos did not go to APS, they went to a Garrett distributor who will handle the CHRA swap and any cleanup if needed.
abushong504, hang in there buddy - we are almost there!
First, there was a wideband gauge available when the dual wideband controller was first released. It was a single readout, but for quick reference this is all you need, as Haltech displays, logs and adjusts both banks in the software. The original supplier (who was a HUGE gauge supplier) went under, but we are excited to have found a new manufacturer (after testing many) that can produce a quality gauge in both single and dual readout.
Second, the Haltech 350Z box has bank-specific O2 correction, since the beginning. Having dual widebands is beneficial not only to view the difference in the banks, but also for tuning and bank-specific o2 correction. In many cases I see Z's that run as much as 5+% different between the banks at idle and cruise, and I watch as the Haltech o2 correction brings BOTH banks, individually, to my target a/f ratio. If your car is not taking advantage of bank specific o2 correction, I would suggest you talk to your installer/tuner about setting that up.
The turbos did not go to APS, they went to a Garrett distributor who will handle the CHRA swap and any cleanup if needed.
abushong504, hang in there buddy - we are almost there!
01-05-2011, 07:13 AM
#116
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (87)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Hal!
Yeah, who know how long it would have taken if they had gone to APS. I probably would have never saw them again lol.
The APS Extreme kit was not new when purchased. It had been sitting on the old AEBS motor that I originally tried swapping. The TT kit probably sit for around 2 years, never fully being ran. But, there is no telling what happened during the time it sat.
As Hal said, the turbos were sent to a Garrett authorized dealer and inspected. It was found that one of the turbos oil inlet had some blockage/obstruction in it. This caused the bearing to start going bad. If Hal and them hadn't of caught this, the turbo would have most likely grenaded. I am thankful they didn't let me drive it out of the shop to enjoy the last few weeks of warm days before winter.
They second turbo was found to have no issues. With advice from Hal, I decided to have the Garrett dealer send both turbos to Garrett and have the CHRA's in both of the turbos replaced and all resealed. This will give us a piece of mind. I am not sure on the ETA of the repaired turbos, but I will update once I they come in. Hopefully, this has solved everything!
Yeah, who know how long it would have taken if they had gone to APS. I probably would have never saw them again lol.
The APS Extreme kit was not new when purchased. It had been sitting on the old AEBS motor that I originally tried swapping. The TT kit probably sit for around 2 years, never fully being ran. But, there is no telling what happened during the time it sat.
As Hal said, the turbos were sent to a Garrett authorized dealer and inspected. It was found that one of the turbos oil inlet had some blockage/obstruction in it. This caused the bearing to start going bad. If Hal and them hadn't of caught this, the turbo would have most likely grenaded. I am thankful they didn't let me drive it out of the shop to enjoy the last few weeks of warm days before winter.
They second turbo was found to have no issues. With advice from Hal, I decided to have the Garrett dealer send both turbos to Garrett and have the CHRA's in both of the turbos replaced and all resealed. This will give us a piece of mind. I am not sure on the ETA of the repaired turbos, but I will update once I they come in. Hopefully, this has solved everything!
Last edited by abushong504; 01-05-2011 at 07:14 AM.
01-05-2011, 04:47 PM
#118
New Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: York County, Pennsylvania.
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As Hal said, the turbos were sent to a Garrett authorized dealer and inspected. It was found that one of the turbos oil inlet had some blockage/obstruction in it. This caused the bearing to start going bad. If Hal and them hadn't of caught this, the turbo would have most likely grenaded. I am thankful they didn't let me drive it out of the shop to enjoy the last few weeks of warm days before winter.
I removed the debris sump/oil restrictor/outer bearing race retaining pin (whatever Garrett may call it) and found a small piece of the inner teflon liner from the oil feed line blocking the restrictor hole.
I'm curious if whoever removes the restriction can identify the cause.
01-14-2011, 07:04 AM
#119
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (87)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
300 each sure does sound a lot better. I would of loved to had paid that insteadIt's funny that you mention the obstruction. When I recieved my used extreme kit, one of the turbos had an obstruction in the oil feed. I discovered it by blowing air through the oil feed lines and turbos.
I removed the debris sump/oil restrictor/outer bearing race retaining pin (whatever Garrett may call it) and found a small piece of the inner teflon liner from the oil feed line blocking the restrictor hole.
I'm curious if whoever removes the restriction can identify the cause.
I removed the debris sump/oil restrictor/outer bearing race retaining pin (whatever Garrett may call it) and found a small piece of the inner teflon liner from the oil feed line blocking the restrictor hole.
I'm curious if whoever removes the restriction can identify the cause.
As for updates, the turbos came back in. Now, we just have to get them mounted back up and I have to try to fight for dyno time ha. I am anxious to see if this fixes all of the issue.
Also, if you guys have facebook, could you please click on this link:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...399191&theater
I am wanting you to like the picture of my car. If you do not see a like button, click on TWM's profile and then like it at the top of the page. You can then hit back on your browser and like the picture of my car. I am trying to win a free shortshifter!
I appreciate it guys. Updates will come as soon as I get them!
01-14-2011, 10:04 AM
#120
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (87)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I decided to add some pics!
Basically brand new turbos
Motor out of car ready for turbos to be put back on:
While the motor is out, I had Dynosty hook up my oil pressure, fuel pressure, and water temp sensors.
Basically brand new turbos
Motor out of car ready for turbos to be put back on:
While the motor is out, I had Dynosty hook up my oil pressure, fuel pressure, and water temp sensors.