whosdady

iTrader: (6)

This is my take.

ATI produces a kit that takes this car to the limits. Without proper tuning disaster is eminent, as I think we will see with some of the other kits coming to the market. EI: PE, Greddy, Vortech, etc.

One thing that seems to be misunderstood here is the service. I have called and emailed the techs at ATI. Each time I have recieved quick promt service. One time I spoke to a tech for over an hour. Granted my needs were small. (belt squeal and oil change) But to me that is very impressive that a company would devote that much time to one customer.

ATI seems to prefer working with people on a 1 on 1 basis. After seeing some of the negative propaganda on the forums, I don't blame them. I could be wrong but I think they are busy selling/helping customers in this fashion. They don't have time to entertain "want to be Z clients" on forums where competetors are spreading false rumors.

In the case of blown engines. It is clear the tuners are to blame. Put yourself in ATI's shoes. Can you beat on the tuners that install/sell the kits? (NO) If ATI made them look bad who would sell the kits?

Instead of responding or reading propaganda on the forums, ATI is probably designing another kit that is easier to tune. Not because their product is faulty but because some to of the tuners are having issues with the current set up.

jesseenglish

Whosdady,

That is probalby one of the most insightful posts on this thread. Good call and way to put things into perspective. I have also always received prompt responses from ATI regarding any problems I have had.

In fact I emailed them tonight regarding timing after their close of business hours and I still got a prompt reply from them. Someone must've been working overtime.

ATI has always said that they will not point fingers at the tuners, and why should they. Without them who's going to do the install and tuning.

If I was running their business, I'd be pretty worried about posting on this forum too. I mean look at us. We jump on vendors like rabid wolves. I'm as much to blame as anyone, but if I was running a business, I'd stay out of the fray as much as possible.

want350z

what's up guys, I have been a member for a while but never posted just read. Anyways, I finally got my Z and have been following the whole forced induction thing and would like to throw in my .2 cents. I am by no means a guru, but I have worked on a few turbocharged cars and I am curious if anyone has ever placed EGT probes on the 2 rear cyclinders. It is obvious that these cyclinders get more air than the other 4 as proven by Crawfords plenum research and it seems alot of failures occur on cyclinder 6. I also can't believe that ATI didn't include a timing retard device especially after seeing the stock Z timing. 7 psi, 28 degrees of timing advance, and a 10.03:1 compression ratio is not a good combination IMHO. Just thought I would share my thoughts.

12SecZ

I have the tuner kit with new ECU and larger injectors and I'm good to go with the ProCharger now! Timing was changed on my car FYI.

Juztin

iTrader: (9)

How do you like the flashed ECU & larger injectors 12SecZ? I'm looking very closely into this combination, just wondering what your take on it is? Thanks for any opinions!

--Justin

flynnibus

Dunno.. it could be pre-ignition too... no one has really analysed what has happened to these engines...

Detonation you can handle to an extent before it blows.. pre-ignition.. happens once.. then pretty much boom

f r e z N Y

Did any of the guys with a blown motor have a Crawford Plenum?

jesseenglish

Yes, MaxHax had a Crawford Plenum installed.

f r e z N Y

which of his cylinders went? Was it also the #5/#6?

12SecZ

How do you like the flashed ECU & larger injectors 12SecZ? I'm looking very closely into this combination, just wondering what your take on it is? Thanks for any opinions!
---------------

I have not had any problems with the setup and feel very comfortable boosting my car with this setup.

daking350

12secz..Did you have the car tuned on a wide band o2? if so how was the reading on the A/F ratio??

Stabber

12secz, why do you have a wideband in your sig? stand alone?

Topics II

iTrader: (8)

He has a wideband installed on his car so he can read his A/F. standalone or not, its good to have to monitor the motor.

jesseenglish

There are many stand alone setups available. I have one in my car and wouldn't part with it for the world.

It's like an angel sitting on your shoulder saying
"Don't worry Jesse, you can boost it. Look at the A/F ratios, you couldn't ask for anything better."

skk100

Look guys I am just trying to help. When a product fails and it is the manufacturers fault then they lay responsible. What exactly are the tuners doing wrong to cause harm to these cars? ATI should write a better installation guide or have some sort of pretuned version of their SC.

If your car runs fine with the ATI great. For those who have engines blow up, then I would go after someone. SOMEONE is to blame. A new car shouldn't do that!!!

thats my 2 cents.

elektrik_juggernaut

Amen......if tuning is so critical that it can't be done by even the most experienced tuners, then it's ATI's responsibility to do something different

But it's really starting to look like it's not in the tuning, but in the equipment itself

GaryK

You can't look at it like that. None of these kits are foolproof, and none claim to be. I don't have enough info to even think about making a blanket statement that any party is to blame. But, you ask what are the tuners doing wrong to cause harm? The tuner is the one responsible for what is arguably the most important part of all this.

The tuner is the one that sets up the fmu to get the a/f ratios right on the ATI kit. If they tune it for the absolute maximum power, then they are increasing the chances that something catastrophic may occur. If they tune it conservatively, there is some "cushion" to allow for things like denser air, bad gas, etc. Mine is tuned very conservative, and is probably down about 10 whp or more from what it would be if tuned on the edge. If the tuner just plain doesn't know what they're doing...well, anything could happen.

What I'm talking about here is just one of the things that could cause internal engine damage. Still, it is a very likely possibility, and completely out of ATI's hands. There are other things, like the lack of timing control, that could also cause damage. Regardless, I don't think anybody can point the finger at ATI at this point, so expectations of them going to extreme measures to fix these cars are unrealistic.

Above all, remember that when it comes to performance mods, there are no guarantees. You can't expect everything to work perfectly all the time when you perform a mod as substantial as forced induction.

GaryK

I'm adding timing control (J&S) as a safety, since I don't have enough info to make a determination on what actually has caused the problems so far....

elektrik_juggernaut

If i bought a $5000 VCR, and it could never play til the end of the tape without blowing up my TV, i would return it, and have no problem doing so.

If they told me that i needed new belts or different heads to make it work properly, i would scream profanities.

If you look up Faulty Product Law, it states that it has to be proven by the Plaintiff that there was a better way to do what process is in question. I think we all know there was a better way to do this.

jesseenglish

Yes, what if what caused the problem is that you plugged the VCR into a 220V outlet instead of a 110V outlet and that's what caused the problem. Is it the VCR manufacturers fault?

Hey EJ, I'm hearing you man, but I need my car and I don't want to have to worry about the timing. You can stick it out and wait for ATI to do something about it or you can join us on the group buy. Our arms are open wide if you wanna join us.