one more good photo

 

Thanks Jon, those are some good ideas.

 

I am so happy to learn all this stuff ...let me see installed by Grubbs Infiniti on 9/16/03 Odometer 8,994 miles ... yes that would be over 2 months later and some 2,000+ miles current Odometer 11,316 miles. I believe they are one of your main authorized dealers and didn't you train their mechanics to do the install ???

I wouldn't even have a copy of your install manual if I didn't go back to get all the stock parts they were going to throw away and found it in the box.

Now that you have brought it to my attention .... boy it sure is lucky that I visit this site, you know now that I think about it ..... I wonder why you didn't inform me in writting since I did directly purchase your 3 year warranty extension ??? let me read that manual.

Well what do you know on page 5 under required tools:

"6 Spark Plugs * (Non-Platinum)
*If current plugs have more then 10,000 miles, or are more then 1 year old. (NGK Plugs, stock#3672, Part# LFR6A-11 are recommended."

I guess since your authorized and trained installer noticed that my car had less then 10,000 mile he didn't need to change them. You would think he might mention to me that I should do it when the miles reached 10,000 or when I bought the car back for the 500 mile supercharger oil change(9/30/03-9,475mile), since it is so important.

In fact when I brought it back to them on 10/6/03 after having it tuned by another one of your authorized dealer/installers (LoneStar Performance) as your manual recommends on page 56 with over 10,000 miles you would think they would have said .....hey you have over 10,000 miles and ATI think it is very important to change your plugs at this time.

Wait that reminds me, why didn't LoneStar Performance bring this to my attention. Oh that's right when I asked them if I needed to change plugs they said absolutely NOT. Something to the effect you - ATI designed the system to use the stock plugs that the Z came with. Boy I am really confused now.

I better stop now and read this manual in detail .... since I now see other differences in your install manual and your new Technical Notice To 350z Owners.

 

Humm, JIC your ties to ATI wouldn't have anything to do with this post, would they? And I think some people would take exception with your comments on the strength of the VQ. But you're a "drifter" or parking lot bandit and that makes you an experienced racer and tuner?

 

I can find no mention of this in the owners manual I have now. If this was a factor in the use of the supercharger shouldn't this have been addressed in the manual and why didn't you show how to disable the Traction Control ?

 

I'm also still running the stock plugs just fine FWIW as is the Ultimate Z car tuned with my same timing and fuel setup.

 

JIC and my self we have long experience. We know Japanese engine. JIC as you know we are manufacturing suspension and titanium item. But JIC here and Japan we are doing lot of racing. late1980 we start JSS Japanese race and also we made many top speed race car, we challenged 0km to 300km time trail race, Porsche cup race 1 year. Japan GT grand turismo race 4 years, FIA GT Race 3 year, also 0- 400mm drag race, here America. American Lu man race 1997.Daytona 24hrs race 1998 and Japanese N1 race 1999 and 2000 with IS300 and civic, also always D1 drift. Most our race car we are making engine and chassis ourself.what I want to say we know what we have to do this with ATI kit. If we doesn’t have experience play with Japanese car we might will make damage with drift race. This is my responsibility. I want to more engine hose power so I got system from ATI. ATI gave me dream to us. but anybody who want to extra hose power and performance every have to study and take care of engine maintenance and tuning. I like my350Z .com forum but, I don't like people looks like fight inside forum. sorry about my strong letter. If 350Z owner who has ATI system I hope every body enjoy car life with modify. my self I always drive modify car. never drive stock condition car. Last 20year I learn lot of about engine tuning and still learning and spending money...

 

I just figured it out. It is like ATI is selling vacuum cleaners. If the vacuum cleaner destroys your floor it's not their fault. It is either the fault of the floor for not being able to stand up to the power of their vacuum cleaner, or the fault of the operator for wanting to clean the floor too often. After all, didn't the buyer realize that their vacuum was really designed to be used very sparingly. In fact, it was really their hope that it would be left in the closet and only be taken out on rare occasions to impress the neighbors!

 

JIC Jon, since you have extensive experience with the VQ from Nissan and Nismo and ATI, why don't you share some of this knowledge with the forum cause they damn sure don't provide any of this to anyone else. By the way, someone has beaten you to it, a 690 hp twin turbo 350Z has been done and it ran the Silver State Classic-unfortunately it wrecked due to flat tire.

 

Hi

Japanese Nissan engineer told me about main bearing. Stock bearing we can use max rpm is 6800rpm. We can go 7000rpm but they said very dangerous. I saw stock bearing looks very small not like Porsche bearing. If you want to use over 7000rpm just dangerous. You know Japanese Jun auto? They did silver state classic race. Their engine rev limit was 7500rpm max but they said they got some kind of special material bearing. But, I don't know who making. If you want to use high rpm you have to take care of oil temp. My car has extra oil cooler but still not good. My car will have one more oil cooler. If your engine get oil temp over heat you will make bearing blow and destroy your engine. I know now Nissan designing new crank and bearing for VQ engine right now. In Japan lot of engine tuner know about this info. But US Nissan they don’t know this information. But 350Z when I play at willow spring(small track) oil temp going up very high (130~140C) before install oil cooler was 140~160C.

Jon

 

Hi Jon,

Thanks for the great posts. The picture you posted of the ATI install looks different than my install (intake for one). What customization was done and could you be specific about the changes made (parts different than ATI kit) and why?

Thanks,

BlownG

 

Jon, good post and thanks. Keep the good info coming, it's very useful. An oil cooler is a good cheap addition in any case but more so for the VQ I guess.

Too bad the Z at the Silver State crashed. Everyone expected them ot win. It would be interesting what mods they did. Supposed to have been a 3.8L engine. Watched the SCCA runoffs and a 350Z came in third (TC Kline-normally a BMW guy) in Touring 2 so these engines must have some durability.

 

The "problem" as it were is quite simple - the motor is not designed with boost in mind. As such, it should not be surprising that a motor with any form of forced induction lets go. cars of every make and variety have been turbo'd, SC'd, etc. Some last, some don't. Knowing this going into is should be rule number one for a customer, but all too often they think with their ego and not with their head......HP is addictive that way, as is having the next cool thing on the block.

Just by some of the responses here, you can almost tell that some of the buyers were maybe not well prepared for the possibilies, nor armed with useful diagnostic tools.

I ahve not seen one discussion of using an EGT gauge. very few about using a wideband (for more than the dyno tune), none about using a datalogger. I also see post after post about dyno tuning, none about road tuning. If this is the level of modification you want on the car, by all means, go for it - but either you guys are not researching what all is involved, or your tuners are not well eductaed into boosting non turbo cars.

 

We need to find these " well eductated " tuners that are using the state of the art tools for optimum tuning and post to let everyone else know about them. I'm sure people would take a road trip to be assured they were getting the best possible tune.....I know I would. Also I live in BC, Canada so if there is anyone that knows of a good experienced tuner in Western Canada send me a pm. Thanks.





Yielar

 

you hit the nail on the head. I've seen all kinds of ludicrous posts on this forum that clearly show most people here don't understand forced induction and are ignorant of the issues that come into play when adding FI to an N/A car. As far as I'm concerned any NA car that is boosted should at LEAST have a wideband O2 setup to monitor the air/fuel mixture. EGT gauges would also be a great thing to have. Anything else is icing on the cake. You need to monitor engine health, and most of these people have no idea.. they just blindly trust their tuners, which is a huge mistake, IMO. My car is 100% stock, and I'm currently designing some datalogger hardware so I can monitor enigne health/status well before I even put a single mod on the car.

 

I think TheSVTkid does road tuning on his installs.....jesseenglish's car was road tuned, and he has a wideband O2 which helped him re-tune it

Both MaxHax and ravaz had EGT gauges......but it wasn't really helpful in their situation.

I don't think it was my ego that made me buy this kit, but i could be wrong......i read every page at Procharger.com.......i did lots of research into supercharging in a variety of places........i spoke to mechanics about reliability..........before i bought this thing.......all of it said supercharging is the most reliable form of FI, and ATI's site, in particular, made it sound very safe, and they claimed that their engineering was top notch......after looking at the kit........seeing the horror stories.......seeing the detonation occur in my own car.....watching ATI point the finger at everyone else........plus the things that have occured "behind the scenes", that i can't mention here yet........i have been convinced that ATI has been less than honest with us

 

Supercharging is no more or less reliable than turbocharging, which is no more or less reliable than staying with an NA build. All require precise control of all engine parameters, and a knowledgeable person doing the tuning.

 

when did you start to refer to the sports compact kit as the STREET KIT. In all you sales pitches and owners manual you call it the complete kit or the HO (High Output) kit and either state or imply that with this kit nothing else is needed to gain the wrhp and safe boost increase you advertise.

Now after over two months past when I purchased this complete kit .. I am kind of informed that if I want to use it to drag race or autocross or just push it out on the street I really need to purchase a lot more safe guards.

I really believe that if I had been properly been informed of all the additional cost and potential harm in the beginning, I and most others would have elected to wait for a better product. I think you should consider offering to buy back any unit sold before your new Tech Alert for the price paid and the cost of uninstalling it.

I know in my case I would immediately take advantage of such an offer. I would consider any company taking that stand one of value and merit.

 

That is an excellent idea!.......I too would not have purchased this kit if i was forewarned of all these newly highlighted dangers.....this is my daily driver, i can't afford to have it explode

 

My car was road tuned with a data logger several times from fat to lean. 5 different road trips pre and post ECU flash. These are my gauges. Oil Temp, Water Temp, Voltage, Boost, EGT, Wideband. I monitor ALL of them on EVERY trip.

My EGT has never been over 700 and my warning meter is set at 800. It has never went off! My fuel was started at 12.* and was finalized at 11.5. My EGT starts at 0 and stays around 500 on the highway where I do most of my driving at 3000 rpm’s. I have learned from the horror stories here to check everything daily like belts, bolts, and hoses for leaks and monitor my gauges while driving. I am a gadget freak anyways so it is fun for me.

Blowing an engine isn't fun though and had others not blown their engine on the Dyno or on the street or wherever (I only know of 2?) then I would not have learned this correct setup. I think the info coming out is great and I am trying to add my info to help others but it does sort of seem like research after the fact. Kits began shipping in June or July right? This post should have been made then. Don’t slam me; I am on your side! It’s just common logic that needs to prevail here. I can think of a million analogies but I think the “complete kit” owners understand. I just have the tuner kit. I wouldn’t buy the complete kit in its current form. I have no allegiance to anyone either. I would like to thanks some people though. My setup would not have been like this if I didn’t read here.

My hats off to the original pioneers who paid the ultimate price to draw attention to this matter so others like me could learn from their mistakes. I feel they deserve some credit too. The kit was sold as a complete bolt on kit . I think buying Corky Bell's latest book is a MUST for super charger owners and those considering a supercharger too! Good luck to all! My car and the Pro Charger are perfect but it was from reading from others failures! So lets take the good with the bad in the thread not just the good right? Otherwise there is no learning curve!