djtimodj

I think what straight is saying is dont use VP import or oxy fuels with out a tune. C16 is non oxy so can be used on my pump fuel tune.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

VP fuels and plenty of logs down the strip.


I said you needed to touch up tune with oxygenated fuels, VP import and Q16, obviously. C16, no you dont.

And here's the math since this thread is looking for semantics

http://www.tpsperformance.com/blog/2...e-on-race-gas/

from the link...

VP import is a 14.15 stoichio fuel.
Vp Q16: 13.43:1
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/f...8/index11.html

There is NO way you would drop 1.5 going from Q16 to VP import. YOu would barely if even at all get a 1.5 AFR drop if you went from straight pump gas to straight Q16, which is not what we are even discussing here.

Better yet, I've never seen anyone retune AFRs for non-ethanol gas and typical 10% ETOH gas
Pump Gas Non-ethanol: ~14.64:1
Pump Gas E10: ~14.08:1

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Well, there's AFR/stoich ratio that is important for fueling but don't overlook the flame speed of the fuel and the octane, both of which impacts the timing adjustments to maximize power without knocking.

I do not know the flame speed and octane ratings for the fuels above, but I expect that a tune would be important to maximize power over a tune with timing designed around the flame speed and knock limitations of pump gas.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

the discussion is based upon doing a fuel mixture at the track for added knock protection.

not about making more power.

C16+pump gas will do that will no adjustments to the tune. Mixing Q16 or VP Import may need an adjustment in the AFR tables, but probably not.

If he wanted to optimize that higher octane, then ya, you could def retune it more.

binder

iTrader: (8)

we do it on the race bikes all the time with no issues. c16 is close to pumpgas in respect tospecific gravity so even after the bike is tuned it doesn't change anything for us to throw race gas in. We do it because the bikes get a lot hotter and see a lot more abuse in a 45 minute moto than when we tune it in practice.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

ah, gotcha, makes sense...

CTZ860

iTrader: (2)

Seems like there are some knowledgeable people on meth/water injection....
Aside from the hp gain and such is meth/water injection seen as making an engine run "safer" in general?
Would it be a good addition on a basic SC or turbod application?>

eltness350

iTrader: (58)

u originally said u wanted "around" 110 octane fuel.....y dont u just buy a drum of that and have it tuned for it? plenty of race fuel brands with leaded and unleaded 110 octane for ya

DaveJackson

iTrader: (5)

One company's opinion/resource info is here:
http://www.snowperformance.net/faqs_type.php?type=gasoline

djtimodj

Im not bothered by octane as long as im adding det protection! lol..I dont want more power! lol..

110 will have more det protection than 99 octane I normally run thats all..

maXmood

iTrader: (16)

didn't wanna start a new thread....

how about using a meth kit to spray c16 instead of meth? nevermind the cost of the c16 compared to the meth. but i'm talking about how would that work?

djamps

iTrader: (1)

I usually mix in a couple gallons of 103-109 octane unleaded to a quarter tank of 93 (because I have cats I can't just dump anything in there). My car made it's best times/traps with the mixture. No issues at all! 110 octane on a 93 tune seems a tad overkill, no? In a standing mile type event I would be more worried about exhaust and combustion chamber temps than detonation -- water/meth injection would do alot more for you than adding more and more octane.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

well the main difference between pump and race tunes should be your timing and boost, and being a bit richer on pump. If you run less knock on race mixes I'd think you need a better tune more than anything.

Ill go back again to watermeth... the water doesn't really effect egt's (most say nearly no change) so that shouldn't hurt your cats. I'm thinking about running a cat on my setup and I already own a water/meth kit so thar be my 2c

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

I think that wouldn't even work because water/meth pumps were designed for pumping those fluids. race gas i'd imagine is thicker and could damage sh*t. I guess you could do a fuel pump and create a fuel injection kit... But that really would be a waste when meth/water will be easier cheaper and probably more effective (has to do with specific heat of water to reduce detonation).
Also tuning would be hard to pull off. You'd likely run really rich without weird compensations etc.. then if sh*t fails you get focked sooo hard.
Better off just adding it into your tank by miles. plus that sh*ts expensive.

maXmood

iTrader: (16)

how thicker would it be?? i mean, it's still a fluid that could be compared to meth. plus, i don't think the pump will have difficulty pushing race gas.

i did mention in my post to never regard the price difference, so i'm not going into that.

if the tune is to pump meth @ certain PSI, then it's gonna be the same with race gas. so, driving anywhere without going into boost is the same case with both, being it meth or race gas.

does that make sense?

Cass007

iTrader: (34)

In theory the water/meth mix "atomizes" into the charge air. You would have to ensure that the fuel could do the same or it will pool and then BOOM.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

+1 @cass

If you don't believe us, try and get it to work. Waste of time and money, and eventually a motor.