Procharger & Another Blown Engine
12-21-2003, 12:39 AM
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Procharger & Another Blown Engine
Sadly, add me to the list, I guess the cold weather and the Crawford plenum was too much in combination with the Procharger. Anyway, there is a big hole in the side of my motor, and I am back to driving my Cobra...............
Anyone want a J&S timing box, brand new, with the dual function gauge, was going to go on this Sunday, but I may as well sell it now.
Also if anyone has any input on motors, please PM me, as I need a new one!!!
Robin
Anyone want a J&S timing box, brand new, with the dual function gauge, was going to go on this Sunday, but I may as well sell it now.
Also if anyone has any input on motors, please PM me, as I need a new one!!!
Robin
12-21-2003, 03:37 AM
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Make that 8 http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...da/message/846 Man, no SC for me for sure now wait and see if there any casualties with the TT's. ATI should be shot, all of these people doing the R&D and paying the cost, ATI should have been blowing engines and fidning out the weak points not customers.
Well abogada001 if your id reflects your profession I hope you put your legal knowledge to work those guys need to learn a lesson.
Well abogada001 if your id reflects your profession I hope you put your legal knowledge to work those guys need to learn a lesson.
Last edited by westpak; 12-21-2003 at 03:42 AM.
12-21-2003, 03:50 AM
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You guys have to be careful what mods you add to a supercharger application. What did you do to get the proper tune for your combination. Do you have some type scanner to view parameters during your WOT runs? Do you go to the dyno to determine and adjust your A/F ratio?
You must avoid deviating from the TESTED combination without the ability to fine-tune your setup.
Sorry to hear of your loss. A damaged engine is no fun.
You must avoid deviating from the TESTED combination without the ability to fine-tune your setup.
Sorry to hear of your loss. A damaged engine is no fun.
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12-21-2003, 07:05 AM
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Sorry to hear that, abogada001.
Could you tell us what led up to the failure? And, it would help, if you apprised us of the mods. that you had made/installed before the break-down. What did you mean when you made reference to the, “cold weather”?
Hope you'll be able to recover without too much headaches.
Best
G
Could you tell us what led up to the failure? And, it would help, if you apprised us of the mods. that you had made/installed before the break-down. What did you mean when you made reference to the, “cold weather”?
Hope you'll be able to recover without too much headaches.
Best
G
Last edited by 350Zzzz; 12-21-2003 at 07:29 AM.
12-21-2003, 08:05 AM
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Sorry to hear about your motor. Doesn't the ATI kit come with some way to adjust the A/F ratio and require tuning it?
I'm a newbie to the board and just bought a '04 350Z so sorry to repeat anything already gone over. I was considering the ATI kit down the road. I also have a 92 DSM AWD that I built myself and has ran 10.9@131 in the 1/4 in full street trim so I may be of some help to the board when it comes to boost
Do our cars have stock knock sensors & timing retard based off it? In other cars I've been into there are ways to tap into the stock knock sensor and monitor knock so you know if you should get off the gas.
If there is no stock knock sensor or knock retard then J&S w/knock retard would be the way to go to keep this thing safe. Crappy variable quality pump gas can ruin your day in a boosted application with no good knock control. They should include that in the kits.
I've read there are issues with too much timing with the ATI kit. Perhaps an MSD ignition w/timing retard would help or an Apex'i ITC if they work on Zs.
It is still suprising an ATI kit with stock boost would toss a rod through the block. I would think a headgasket would go before something that drastic happened. I would hope our motors can hold the extra power and this is an issue with timing or running lean.
Greg
I'm a newbie to the board and just bought a '04 350Z so sorry to repeat anything already gone over. I was considering the ATI kit down the road. I also have a 92 DSM AWD that I built myself and has ran 10.9@131 in the 1/4 in full street trim so I may be of some help to the board when it comes to boost
Do our cars have stock knock sensors & timing retard based off it? In other cars I've been into there are ways to tap into the stock knock sensor and monitor knock so you know if you should get off the gas.
If there is no stock knock sensor or knock retard then J&S w/knock retard would be the way to go to keep this thing safe. Crappy variable quality pump gas can ruin your day in a boosted application with no good knock control. They should include that in the kits.
I've read there are issues with too much timing with the ATI kit. Perhaps an MSD ignition w/timing retard would help or an Apex'i ITC if they work on Zs.
It is still suprising an ATI kit with stock boost would toss a rod through the block. I would think a headgasket would go before something that drastic happened. I would hope our motors can hold the extra power and this is an issue with timing or running lean.
Greg
Last edited by Strand; 12-21-2003 at 08:20 AM.
12-21-2003, 08:33 AM
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Don't have the exact figure from my installer, but it was definitly rich, just looking at the exhuast and plugs after changing them that was apparrent, my installers intention was to have it running rich till all mods were done.
In detail what happened was earlier I thought I heard detonation/noise at about 5k rpm, just when driving, so I took the car back out, late last night.....like 3am so there was no one on the road, but it was cold for Miami and dry(like 40 degress and no humidity, as opposed to 90 and 90% hum), and slowly did a pull to 6200rpm more or less.........no sounds, had power the whole way through, etc.
So I was not to worried so I started driving a little listening for anything that may indicate a problem, nothing I figure one last try.....this is after about 15 min and the car is warm etc, I come to an open stretch, pull to 6500 in first, shift, and before I even come near 6000 in second gear, there is a severe knocking noise and I instantly let of the gas, but as I am letting of there is a big loud clunk, and smoke, and bad sounds start coming from the car, and when I pull over, its done, smells like oil and the car won't turnover(locked up)..........and all over the ground is dripping oil.
Sad thing is I had the J&S timing box, ready to install right after I changed the plugs and did the Crawfrod plenum. As it is I dont even have 1000 miles on the Procharger.
Could not have happened at a worse time, I bought this car in order to have a more reliable vehicle, now that unfortunatly is not the case.
Plan now, after I am done being pissed off is to build a new motor that can handle 12-14psiwith a much higher redline, and a lot more power...............not sure who can do it here in Miami, or even what its going to take, but I guess I will be researching and working on getting some parts put together asap.
Robin
In detail what happened was earlier I thought I heard detonation/noise at about 5k rpm, just when driving, so I took the car back out, late last night.....like 3am so there was no one on the road, but it was cold for Miami and dry(like 40 degress and no humidity, as opposed to 90 and 90% hum), and slowly did a pull to 6200rpm more or less.........no sounds, had power the whole way through, etc.
So I was not to worried so I started driving a little listening for anything that may indicate a problem, nothing I figure one last try.....this is after about 15 min and the car is warm etc, I come to an open stretch, pull to 6500 in first, shift, and before I even come near 6000 in second gear, there is a severe knocking noise and I instantly let of the gas, but as I am letting of there is a big loud clunk, and smoke, and bad sounds start coming from the car, and when I pull over, its done, smells like oil and the car won't turnover(locked up)..........and all over the ground is dripping oil.
Sad thing is I had the J&S timing box, ready to install right after I changed the plugs and did the Crawfrod plenum. As it is I dont even have 1000 miles on the Procharger.
Could not have happened at a worse time, I bought this car in order to have a more reliable vehicle, now that unfortunatly is not the case.
Plan now, after I am done being pissed off is to build a new motor that can handle 12-14psiwith a much higher redline, and a lot more power...............not sure who can do it here in Miami, or even what its going to take, but I guess I will be researching and working on getting some parts put together asap.
Robin
12-21-2003, 09:57 AM
#13
Originally posted by abogada001
Don't have the exact figure from my installer, but it was definitly rich, just looking at the exhuast and plugs after changing them that was apparrent, my installers intention was to have it running rich till all mods were done.
Don't have the exact figure from my installer, but it was definitly rich, just looking at the exhuast and plugs after changing them that was apparrent, my installers intention was to have it running rich till all mods were done.
Did you have it tuned with a wideband 02 sensor?
If so, what was the a/f ratio, especially in the upper rpms?
Do you have any gauges at all in the car...wideband sensor, egt, fuel pressure?
Looking at the plugs and exhaust is not necessarily an indicator of what the engine was doing under boost. It could be running rich at light and medium loads, or at low and medium rpms, while it runs dangerously lean at higher boost and high rpms.
12-21-2003, 10:08 AM
#14
Originally posted by Strand
Do our cars have stock knock sensors & timing retard based off it? In other cars I've been into there are ways to tap into the stock knock sensor and monitor knock so you know if you should get off the gas.
If there is no stock knock sensor or knock retard then J&S w/knock retard would be the way to go to keep this thing safe. Crappy variable quality pump gas can ruin your day in a boosted application with no good knock control. They should include that in the kits.
I've read there are issues with too much timing with the ATI kit. Greg
Do our cars have stock knock sensors & timing retard based off it? In other cars I've been into there are ways to tap into the stock knock sensor and monitor knock so you know if you should get off the gas.
If there is no stock knock sensor or knock retard then J&S w/knock retard would be the way to go to keep this thing safe. Crappy variable quality pump gas can ruin your day in a boosted application with no good knock control. They should include that in the kits.
I've read there are issues with too much timing with the ATI kit. Greg
There are several of us that just got the J&S Safeguard, me included. I think this thing is worth its weight in gold. Yes, it would have been nice if ATI had included this in the kit, but they obviously didn't think it was necessary based on testing a couple properly tuned cars for a long time.
The primary issue is the steep timing curve the factory ecu uses. I have found with my J&S already that just offsetting the timing advance in the upper rpms may be all thats needed (special feature for 350z). To be safe though, I think it should still be set up for a small amount of boost retard.
I don't think you'll have to worry about the engine being able to withstand the abuse with the ATI kit as long as fuel and timing are properly set up. It doesn't matter how you get there, as long as the fuel control and timing control is there and tuned safely.
Last edited by GaryK; 12-21-2003 at 10:10 AM.
12-21-2003, 10:08 AM
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hey abogada i`m sorry to heard about your car
well you were the only girl i knew with a procharger arround broward county.. anyways i`m gonna ask my friend at GR and see if the wanna built your car. you can reach me at 754 2241107 or email me at gabesir2003@yahoo.com
i will talk to them tomorrow ...
and for the rest of the board abogada001 its a girl! and shes hot!
gabe.
well you were the only girl i knew with a procharger arround broward county.. anyways i`m gonna ask my friend at GR and see if the wanna built your car. you can reach me at 754 2241107 or email me at gabesir2003@yahoo.com
i will talk to them tomorrow ...
and for the rest of the board abogada001 its a girl! and shes hot!
gabe.
12-21-2003, 10:53 AM
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wow. really sorry to hear about your motor. just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many of the 7 blown procharger Z's were using the crawford plenum? I'm also wondering if anyone at procharger was ever sent a plenum to test with...if there is a lean condition, could the plenum exaggerate it? I own a crawford plenum and want to go FI at some point but this stuff is scary as hell...
12-21-2003, 11:06 AM
#19
Zeroday-
If there was a pre-existing lean condition, the plenum could exagerate it without a doubt. In any case, you have to supply adequate fuel to keep a/f ratios in a safe range and address timing no matter what mods you run above and beyond the ATI kit. Even with a stock z and stock ATI kit, better timing/knock control is a good idea, and it becomes even more important as the power is increased with other mods.
If there was a pre-existing lean condition, the plenum could exagerate it without a doubt. In any case, you have to supply adequate fuel to keep a/f ratios in a safe range and address timing no matter what mods you run above and beyond the ATI kit. Even with a stock z and stock ATI kit, better timing/knock control is a good idea, and it becomes even more important as the power is increased with other mods.
12-21-2003, 11:49 AM
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Thanks guys for all the help both here and via PM's I hope to have this thing put togeth soon, Ravaz and a few others are being really helpful!!
Will keep you all posted and see what it takes to have 500hp at the wheels!!
Robin
Will keep you all posted and see what it takes to have 500hp at the wheels!!
Robin