Six months ago I had no idea what the term "forced induction" even meant, so take my opinion as it is: the thoughts of someone who has been keenly interested in learning and improving the performance of my car but who's still very much a newbie.

I've had the Vortech kit for a couple weeks now and it has been a lot of fun. After reading about all the ATI kit and some of the problems people have had, I hope my supercharger continues to be fun if you know what I mean.

It seems to me that Vortech is a very similar design to the ATI kit with the addition of a the SplitSecond FTC1 tuneable timing computer that provides fine-grained control over A/F ratio and timing retard. The Vortech kit is less expensive than the ATI and I've heard people say it's quieter as well. Perhaps due to the timing device, the Vortech kit may subsequently put out less HP than the ATI kit but IMO that's largely speculation until we get more data.

Where I disagree with both ATI and Vortech (and GReddy for that matter) is the notion that a kit can be developed that doesn't require any additional per-car tuning control. As far as I know, the ATI kit by itself doesn't even offer anything with which to tune, does it? Unless you add an additional device all you have to tune with is the ECU, right?

As I mentioned, the Vortech kit uses a really cool and customizeable 3rd party ECU piggyback computer which is great news, but the Vortech mantra is that the FTC1 is completely pre-configured by Vortech to work perfectly on your car and should not require ANY per-car tuning. The guy I spoke to made it sound like post-install dyno was optional--something you could do if you wanted to but was by no means necessary. Which is not to say the kit is unsafe--but rather that it is probably tuned to the lowest common denominator. This is better than having no A/F or timing control at all, but I personally don't think the "bolt-it-on-and-go" strategy is going to work well for this engine.

Vortech would probably disagree with the need for post-installation tuning of the timing computer they use, but I for one am REALLY GLAD that my installer had the software license and the experience necessary to make fine-grained modifications of the preset programming. If he hadn't, my install experience would likely have been a disaster. To wit, my guys increased the A/F ratio from around 9.0 (low enough that the car stalled at idle) to the 11.5-12.0 range and also actually increased the timing retard at higher RPMs from levels that my tuner felt were not sufficient enough to prevent detonation. He felt that the Vortech presets did not retard timing enough for my car and actually laughed out loud when I told him that the ATI kit didn't provide a way to retard timing.

Before anyone goes off saying that Vortech's presets must be flawed, I must point out (as I mentioned in a previous thread) that my car is different from the car Vortech used to create A/F and timing maps for the FTC1. I have a 2004 G35 sedan and the kit was developed using a 2003 350Z. The ECUs are very different, the model year is different, etc. I know that Vortech is working on specific programming for each of these models/years that was not available at the time I purchased my kit. My guess is that when there is a G35-specific kit the Vortech's programming of the FTC1 will more closely match what I ended up with.

Regardless, I think my point is a valid one. Cars are different, the mods we have on them are different. Outside altitude, humidity, and temperature are different. The way we drive is different. The LS1 guys apparently all use LS1Edit and--correct me if I'm wrong, but--I'm guessing that they would laugh at the idea of bolting on a kit and not doing any tuning.

IMO, the ECU doesn't provide enough safety controls and I'm hoping we get to the point where all FI kits for the 350z/G35 contain both a tuneable device with conservative presets AND ALSO the software to tune it with.

--Steve

 

The general concept here is very, very true. I agree completely with this.


A couple things in particular zimbo:

The ATI kit uses a digital fmu that is adjustable to roughly match the fuel delivery to the boost curve. They also tell you that the car needs to be tuned after install to get the a/f ratios into a safe range.

Is the Vortech fuel delivery adjustable without the software your tuner has? I hope so, because if it isn't then that will add to the cost of the Vortech kit much the same as we must add to the ATI for timing control. Its a good thing that your tuner leaned out yours some, as running too rich is also a bad thing and can lead to engine failure.

 

I personally do not like the DFMU's abstractness with boost & fuel delivery at all. The ECU reflash is more appealing to me personally because it can definately get more fine grained at the cost of the archaicness of having to re-flash per upgrades. I'd personally rather just reflash ECU, toss DFMU, put in larger injectors w/ a performing fuel pump, and be on my happy way. But I would still put the J&S to compensate for driving higher up in elevation or on very cold -20 to 50 degress farenheit kinda weather. But I would still like another option in regards to the ECU, I'm still eyeing Greddy's e-manage, but their timing module isn't supposed to ship till jan. XEDE also interests me a lot, especially if they can keep my dash functional...

 

thanks for the link!

hmm... I really like the FTC1 from reading the online specs.
If it came with knock sensing retard in additions to the 3D
maps for fuel and timing, then it'd be perfect for me. I could
then later go with larger injectors and dyno tune locally.

As it stands now, I'll probably get the PSC1-001 once I get
larger injectors and ditch the DFMU. That way, I'm only a map
away from using different injectors or more mods...

thanks again,
rob

ps. if you're getting an ATI now, I'd suggest either 1) FTC1 alone, or 2) PSC1-001 + J&S

 

also, what do you guys think about using the following:

)ESC1

Basically, fake the car into "open loop" operation when
under boost by altering the o2 sensors (when needed

 

The FTC1 is both a fuel and timing management piggy-back. And it fits in with Vortech's philosophy quite nicely . . . bolt it on, install it correctly, and you have 40%-50% increased RELIABLE HP. Sure, if you want more HP, tweak it. But you do so at your own risk.

Zimbo is exactly correct when he says that the kit is a better fit for the 350Z. Wait until some people start posting about Vortech installs on their 350Z . . . nice HP and TQ increases, without the need to modify ANY electronic programming.

 

I hope this is the case... but I'm a bit skeptical that a one-preset-fits-all will really work.

I'm extremely happy with my Vortech kit so far. I'm curious to see the dyno sheets of subsequent installations as well.

--Steve

 

Talking with Vortech....they say the kit comes with a 8:1 ratio in the fmu ( psi increase per pound of boost ). This gave Zimbo a ~9:1 a/f ratio with his initial setttings. There is a 6:1 and even a 4:1 disc kit available to do coarse fuel adjustment to lean it out. The adjustment to take out even more timing would be the problem if that is the direction you needed to go as well leaning out a/f .