Boosted Performance

iTrader: (14)

To see if the wastegate is working properly and boosting to the correct set spring pressure it is best to run just the lower port of the wastegate up to the IM, or the charge pipe just before the TB. The top of the wastegate vented to atmosphere. This should get you steady boost pressure from spool up all the way to redline. Once that is confirmed to be working, move on to the EBC (Mac valve). I assume you are ussing a Hobbs pressure switch for meth? If so, I would have that at the IM as well, not at the turbo compressor. The boost pressure at the compressor will always be higher than manifold pressure. This way you will see when it comes on through the haltech logs (a/f ratio change).

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/...re-switch.html

i believe it is the same type of operation as a hobbs switch just adjustable. im probably going to switch it to referance off the map signal line, i have the wastegate referenced off the turbo for response time but that should be minimal effect because i can adjust the haltech for higher boost since it is referencing the intake, but keep the quicker response time of referencing right at the turbo. only thing is i had no issue with the boost solenoid before when i was stock block running 10 psi with a 7 psi spring so thats why i was thinking mayby it being plumbed in but not actually operating may have something to do with it. i reenabled it in the haltech but wife had work and school today so i have the boy and cant really test to see if thats true or not.

i actually intend to run like 32 psi or so at the turbo when all is said and done if it will hold up that much, that way i can get the better airflow advantage of the billet wheel, but the intake will only see 29-30ish.

since everything is behind my center console though its pretty easy to switch stuff around. will def check the pressure switch again to make sure it isnt leaking before i attempt to hook it up in line with my map sensor, thats the last thing i want leaking.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

for those who are following this i would like to bow and thank you for watching my amazing spectacle of over thinking. when i put the car back togeather i had originally mocked it up as having the solenoid upside down with the vent facing me which would put port 2 on the left side. however when i actually set it up i couldnt put the center console back on and flipped it around so the vent faces the firewall. my genius self did not seem to acknowledge i did the so i still hooked it up as if port 2 was on the driver side when it was in fact not.

this whole time my boost referance line(and the line controlling what my meth sees.) has been venting to atmosphere creating a very tiny boost leak(damn impressive considering i was still hitting 23 lbs boost.) and my wastegate vent has actually been dead heading into the solenoid, so as it trys to open it compresses the air and cannot fully open. i imagine this is what i felt before with it hanging open some, some of the pressue undoubtedly leaked out in boost then when it tryed to close it had a vacuum on it hanging it open. this could have possibly been my issue with stalling on decel. i imagine its going to be a vastly different car now, might have to take it for some runs tomarrow.

i will undoubtly be able to add that timing back in that i took out of the 22 psi cells.

binder

iTrader: (8)

lol, i almost asked if you had the boost solenoid backwards.

The middle port vents to the side that the wastegate is on when the solenoid isn't being used. This was the issue with mine on first drive. It kept overboosting and took me a few days to figure out why. I pressurized the system with an air compressor to check and heard air leaking out of that vent port. Then i asked on here if it matters which direction port 1 and 2 are attached to since in the TiAl manual it doesn't say. It only said a side port goes to turbo and one goes to wastegate with the middle one vented. Apparently it DOES matter which one goes where.

glad you have it figured out.

Boosted Performance

iTrader: (14)

Each port has a number on it, ad it is important.

You can see the numbers here, althought small:



It even tell sou you the part number, it is a $20 valve.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

oh yah i was staring at the diagram that haltech includes with the solenoid and got that feeling of it slowly clicking, then rotated a imaginary one in the air in front of me, finally ending with the feeling of being a idiot and a select few swear words, ran downstairs and fixed it in like 2 minutes.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

well boost control is working now and working damn good with the default pid settings. not too sure meth is kicking in still though, gona pull open the charge pipe and see if its actually spraying or if i have a blockage somewhere.

temp is still rising but im only in boost for a second so im not sure if its just not enough time to get to the nozzle or not. i dont imagine thats the case though.

could just be the sensor dosnt react fast enough though, cruising i get 105 intake temp which maintains till 18.8 psi(i have boost control set to 20 for 5k rpms needs alot more tuning to attempt having traction now.) then after letting off boost it will drop to about 90 almost instantly either the meth is working and the 7 gph nozzle i have is too small or theres some lag, or something crazy is happening.

Boosted Performance

iTrader: (14)

With that FMIC, you really should not have any IAT issues. Even 16-19psi pulls on the dyno are fine, with temperature going only 10-15deg over ambient. That is very good.

The other major problem with the T3 GT35R kits (for example) is the small turbine housing. It is the cause of IAT's going way over ambient, as the exhaust back pressure was through the roof. With the .96 T4 you have this will not be a problem at all.

You will benefit from the meth injection, there is no doubt, and you should really see that once you get over 20psi of boost.

Can't wait for the dyno numbers. This is probably the biggest (hp wise) build for the BP kit so far.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

im not concerned with the low-mid boost temps, just the fact that they are not dropping when meth should be running tells me the meth isnt kicking on, which is a problem since i intend to run it for higher boost. theres the possibility there might be something wrong with the little "pill" that devils own uses in there nozzles so ill take a look see what kind of spray im getting with the engine off and pressure applied to the switch.

if all else fails ill just start dumping 3 cans of denatured alcohol into the tank every fill up. will give me about 98 octane but cost 6.20 a gallon essentially with what i can get the denatured alcohol for with my military discount.

not sure how much the stock cams are going to hold me up friday though.

edit: just tested the meth nozzle and working fine im guessing its just too small gona try to find someone to weld the bungs on before friday, other wise ill look into how thick the manifold runners are and if they can be tapped. also admittedly what little knock i still got(about 350 counts) i AM running 2 degrees more timing then binder but on no where near as good of a fuel even though he is conservative. i was running 17.6 degrees at 5k and 18 psi, stepped that down to 17 but might go even lower.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

couldnt get anyone to weld up my intake with the bungs without my car being down for 2-3 weeks so i said F it and took the plunge and driled and tapped the stainless. its alot more resistant then the aluminum so ive no issues although it did eat a brand new drill bit....

i do not however trust the o rings that are on the nozzles so i put red rtv around each nozzle just in case......... testing showed good, its a massive amount of meth from the 3 gph nozzles ill prob put the injection point back to about 13 psi since i dropped it again after the other day to about 8.5 psi, after i add in some more denatured alcohol that will give me about a 75% mix, ill tune for that and then the extra 25% I eventually end up running will be safety zone.

konrad

iTrader: (15)

Jerry, I've been following your thread every update lol,

I thought you were going to run direct meth on each runner??unless I missed it somewhere

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

yah thats what its setup for now ill take a pic and update this post with it, i wasnt able to find someone to weld the bungs short terms so i tapped the stainless and used rtv around each nozzle.



im considering putting some epoxy over the rtv to help help with weekly inspections. doing that will mount them solid so if i take the nozzle holder off the nozzle itself wont come loose then i can unscrew the screen filter to clean and check the actual hole and pull for dirt.

i mean honestly if tons of shops use it to alter the shape of intake runners in cylinder heads no reason i cant use it to mount nozzles permanently lol.

binder

iTrader: (8)

how far do you think meth can push this? I wish i had the time to get mine back on the dyno now that the crank seal is fixed and I have a solid clutch. The bad part if i did find time right now is our actual temps have been between 105-110* every day only dropping down into the upper 80's at night. Way too hot for dyno time.

I don't think that's too much timing. I plan on running at least 5* more timing across the board if not more once I get back on the dyno. I didn't mess with timing on mine since the clutch was slipping already.

I would have the meth kick on sooner. If it kicks on at 13psi or whatever you have it set to it will only be on for a short period before you are out of boost. Especially if you are only doing a single gear pull to test a/f ratio. I'm not sure what GPM equates to but I think mine calculated out to be right around 1000cc of meth when i was pondering doing injection.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

i did the calc and with my nozzles thats 189 cc per cylinder or 1134 across the engine. i never made a run with it at the 8.5 psi up time but since its full on, no modulation, i dont want to flood the engine again with too much fuel, might set it at 10 psi on and call it good lol. i went ahead and epoxied the nozzles in the manifold too over the rtv layer. so now when i pull the holders off to clean the screens i dont have to worry about redoing the rtv since the nozzle itself wont move.

with this much meth and the 8.0:1 compression i should be able to make a good amount of power but i think binder might be higher in the end due to fuel quality and the fact i dont have cams. we will see friday though =D i did consider adding 3 gallons of denatured alchol per tank but since meth is working im not going to bother lol. i am running like 17% meth as total fuel now, more at lower boost so i should be able to up timing down low-mayby a slight amount in the midrange.

ill add this in because i know its going to be asked, i know some people might question it as "arnt you worried about just running a unmodulated nozzle for that much fuel?" but i know top fuel cars essentially use giant meth nozzles(they arnt allowed electronic controls.) with boost some sort of pressure/rpm based mechanical regulator. as the car goes down the track co2 drives higher pressure to push more fuel. so if such a simple setup works on those vehicles i should be ok since i can still adjust a portion of the fuel with injectors. i think it being at 13 psi right now will be fine since i actually want it around 18 but i might drop it down a bit, no air temp sensor though so no air temp correction right now but i will add it, that actually has to have a bung welded due to the length of the probe.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

i've always based my meth use on how much the AFR richen. I kept adding meth til i say a 0.5 point richer drop. I was much closer to 20% total fuel with 50/50

Then retuned the timing and AFR back to optimal.

Where did you mount your AIT sensor? Its a slow sensor and isnt a very good way to determine if the meth is working or not.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

yah im running a bit less volume but a higher concentration. i dont have the new sensor mounted yet since there is no way around welding a bung on the sensor is just too long without it. so until then im using the stock maf for temp and will just tune the car without intake temp correction. temp variation here is only a couple degrees +- so it wont matter too much my intake temps are pretty consistent.

however i verified it was working by hooking it up before bolting the manifold down and applying 12 psi from a air compressor to the pressure switch and watching every nozzle spray........of course they are brand new nozzles. i will probably tune the car to about 11.5 when meth is active instead of the 11.8 its currently set at since meth runs richer that should keep me in a good area.

with everything bolted back in i checked it again but giving it a quick shot of compressor air to the pressure switch and watched my afr dip from a nice stead 13.5 down to 10.9 still not sure why my guage pegs 10.9 and wont go lower(it reads 10.1 until the sensors heat up =/) ive even done the free air calibration 3 or 4 times now.


once i do get the new sensor installed it will go in one of the kinetix runners right by the flange. that way it dosnt get completely dosed with actual liquid meth, which is more like 50/50 methanol/ethanol since thats all i can get(slx denatured alcohol.)

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

is this a pic of your setup, or how you want to do it?

If that is your setup, how would you expect your AITs to change when the AIT sensor is part of the MAF? The AIT sensor isnt seeing any of the meth.

I just tapped and used RTV on my thin intake pipes with no issue. I wouldnt epoxy anything.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

yeah if you have the nozzel's post iat, in the runners, your ecu will never see the temp difference.

Just be weary of running higher concentrations of meth, it *can* wash cylinder-walls. @ 50% supposedly the water keeps that from happening, and steam cleans internals.
Personally I want to setup my car for full boost with full water injection and intank octane booster. Meth is great for IAT but I'm not a fan otherwise. But I have found a good lead for decently priced race gas, so I may change my mind.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

yah thats my setup as it sits now str8, had to cut a piece of the hood skeleton our for clearance but the strut tower brace fits easily and dosnt touch anything, not even close. right now i wont see a temp change(before i had the nozzle mounted in my charge pipe about 4 inchs after the bov and about 8-10 inchs before the maf.)

i have a aftermaket air temp sensor sitting in my storage room, but i have to have a bung for that so it dosnt restrict flow(bungs i have use up half a inch of the threads+ body so the only thing in the airflow is the actual windowed sensor section.) i cant get anyone to weld the bung on without having the intake for 2-3 weeks so im just not doing air temp correction in my tuning for now. when i do use the aftermarket temp sensor i will place it below the nozzles right by the lower intake flange.

wandering around the alcohol injection forums of various manufacturers its repeatedly reported that pure alcohol regularly outperforms water/meth mix, even devils own tech guys will say pure alcohol is better everything ive seen is warnings to be careful with possible fires since meth burns clear. honestly though it makes sense, at 17% fuel volume that gives me right about 98 octane using 93. just the benefit of only having it on during moderate to high boost.

also about the epoxy i know it will hold without it since my aluminum pipe was stripped and it held with rtv, the epoxy i added was to just make it easier to clean the nozzles without having to redo the rtv each time.

binder

iTrader: (8)

He is going to add a sensor after the spray. Currently he is going to turn off temp corrections since the oem maf won't be correct.

About the washing cylinders, it shouldn't at only being 20% fuel. Also, myth busters tested out fuel additives that claim to add octane boosters and they barely raised the octane 1 point when used as directed. Most claimed 10 points in octane and didn't come close. Now if you are talking about adding alcohol to the tank or tolulene like jerry then nevermind what i just said.

jerry, depending how hard you push it you will probably be past my 650 currently without effort. I might get froggy and head back to the dyno to push mine to the 30psi i originally wanted to run . Also, i don't have much correction on my IAT since i'm running e85. My fuel keeps the combustion temps much lower than pump gas so I just did testing and added fuel at intake temps that were high enough to change the AF. It didn't take much fuel to get that to even out.