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08-04-2012, 06:07 PM
#301
to be completely honest im not sure but the ignition pickup was definitly left on, and i know its said not to use those loops since they dont work very well.
the hp however seems to be right in line with what i should be seeing though so i simply dint pay much attention to the torque i simple calculated it from the hp. however the mph is lining right up with my datalog that i took during the run, and he did indeed lift at 6k2 rpms after experiencing clutch slip.
we verified it was clutch slip because he brought up another chart labeled wheel speed and it was a straight diagonal line no drops or spikes like the chart shows plus the rpms are showing slight dips/flat line as well. so its obviously taking a hit in power but wheel speed shows constant acceleration so shouldnt be wheel spin, plus 4th and 5th gear where identical for how the dyno appeared with the dips and showing slipage.
considering the number of cars he tunes i would be amazed if somehow he dint know what he was doing. hes a dealer for haltech, osiris, aem, and while he isnt listed on pro efi's sit he has a couple sitting in the display case and has the dealer dongle....... it was the owner seth who did the run who is also the tuner.
the hp however seems to be right in line with what i should be seeing though so i simply dint pay much attention to the torque i simple calculated it from the hp. however the mph is lining right up with my datalog that i took during the run, and he did indeed lift at 6k2 rpms after experiencing clutch slip.
we verified it was clutch slip because he brought up another chart labeled wheel speed and it was a straight diagonal line no drops or spikes like the chart shows plus the rpms are showing slight dips/flat line as well. so its obviously taking a hit in power but wheel speed shows constant acceleration so shouldnt be wheel spin, plus 4th and 5th gear where identical for how the dyno appeared with the dips and showing slipage.
considering the number of cars he tunes i would be amazed if somehow he dint know what he was doing. hes a dealer for haltech, osiris, aem, and while he isnt listed on pro efi's sit he has a couple sitting in the display case and has the dealer dongle....... it was the owner seth who did the run who is also the tuner.
Hmm, the ignition signal is not used with speed based. After mine was screwed up I did it speed based for a while while the owner was trying to figure out what went wrong with the settings of the rpm signal. With speed based everything was perfectly fine and the ignition clamp wasn't even on my car. It's not needed at all.
It looks like he is using the signal but it shows rpms. So it's almost like he left the bad signal set up for calculating the hp/tq but he just switched it to display rpm instead.
Only thing that would screw up the speed based would be wheel slip on the dyno but then it would cause dips in the hp/tq and not spikes.
This tuner sounds like he doesn't know how to set up the dyno if he thought just changing the labels on the plot changes the things used to calculate hp/tq.
It looks like he is using the signal but it shows rpms. So it's almost like he left the bad signal set up for calculating the hp/tq but he just switched it to display rpm instead.
Only thing that would screw up the speed based would be wheel slip on the dyno but then it would cause dips in the hp/tq and not spikes.
This tuner sounds like he doesn't know how to set up the dyno if he thought just changing the labels on the plot changes the things used to calculate hp/tq.
Last edited by jerryd87; 08-04-2012 at 06:15 PM.
08-04-2012, 06:30 PM
#303
just reading dynojets info on there winpep software and the hp can be read because it is indirect of the engine itself. when the dyno is being run its not actually measuring torque and calculating it like most of us do its measuring the acceleration of the drum and combining that with the known weight and size of the drum to calculate horsepower.
however according to dynojet themselves the computer automatically accounts for gear ratios to measure torque by comparing drum speed to engine speed so in order for torque to be displayed correctly engine speed is required. hence why my hp shows correctly but my torque is fubar.
source is link directly from dynojets site: http://www.powercommander.com/downlo...8118103.02.pdf
however according to dynojet themselves the computer automatically accounts for gear ratios to measure torque by comparing drum speed to engine speed so in order for torque to be displayed correctly engine speed is required. hence why my hp shows correctly but my torque is fubar.
source is link directly from dynojets site: http://www.powercommander.com/downlo...8118103.02.pdf
08-04-2012, 09:36 PM
#304
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RPM can't be a requirement because I ran mine without the rpm hook up on it under speed based and it was the same as it was after I ran it with RPM once the rpm function was fixed. If that was true then I never would have gotten torque readings from my dyno and I do have tq readings. It just doesn't make sense.
08-05-2012, 12:56 PM
#306
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As soon as we switched to speed based and took off the rpm pickup mine went back to being normal and had no issues. Then when they fixed the rpm pickup and I did it rpm based after that it was exactly the same as the speed based readings we just performed.
The high spikes just seem weird for slip as well. Slip caused mine to drop down almost to zero.
08-05-2012, 07:18 PM
#309
i have a feeling it might be something like the difference in rpms the computer is calculating. the pickup isnt grabbing all the rpm making the computer think the car is firing slower then it is and thats why my torque is so insane, the computer is essentially thinking my car is a diesel with the power being produced vs the rpms, then it starts to pick up the signal and it drops. mine seemed like it was kinda hit or miss pickup vs not vs yours seems like it missed a consistent signal( looks like probably dint pick up on one cylinder firing every cycle.)
08-05-2012, 10:22 PM
#310
oh yah jeff i think my intentions to send the 6765 out to be upgraded to a 6766 are squashed at the moment car would be damn insane if i did that rofl.
also looking at other platforms and stuff i actually think i might be able to hit 30 psi on 92+ meth. with my 8.0:1 compression ratio that gives me a 19.6:1 effective compression ratio. 92 can handle about 18.5 on its own with proper timing, i think the airflow i will get from 30 psi once clutch issues are fixed(since around 30 the turbo really jumps in airflow.) should augment the timing ill have to pull to run it resulting in more power. alot of platforms running 30 psi on just 93 using 8.0:1 pistons(or they used to before e85 became huge.) so it should work out. imo i think the timing we run is kinda high anyway so pulling some shouldnt be a huge deal.
edit 2: i calculated the torque on several spots and i mean it looks about right for what i should be at for 26 psi if the clutch wasnt slipping, might be able to eek a extra 10-15 ft lbs out at 26 psi, mayby(doubtful) but most of my further tuning should just help it keep the power on, not gona see above that without turning it up to 30, at 30 psi i would estimate i max about 660 ft lbs guesstimate on what the turbo should be flowing and what ive seen also what binder has seen. honestly jeff i think turn it up to 26 psi and add timing and your gona be way past 600 ft lbs just later in the power band from your cams, since i noticed you already hit 581(resulting in a higher hp number then me.) not sure what cams your running but 900 rpm right shift dosnt seem crazy, i also am running both ceramic coating, heat wrap(and turbo blanket) and then high temp paint on top of that(not sure how much its helping though) so i should definitly spool a couple hundred sooner just from that, especially with straight pipe exhuast back pressure after the turbo should be a 0 issue.
also looking at other platforms and stuff i actually think i might be able to hit 30 psi on 92+ meth. with my 8.0:1 compression ratio that gives me a 19.6:1 effective compression ratio. 92 can handle about 18.5 on its own with proper timing, i think the airflow i will get from 30 psi once clutch issues are fixed(since around 30 the turbo really jumps in airflow.) should augment the timing ill have to pull to run it resulting in more power. alot of platforms running 30 psi on just 93 using 8.0:1 pistons(or they used to before e85 became huge.) so it should work out. imo i think the timing we run is kinda high anyway so pulling some shouldnt be a huge deal.
edit 2: i calculated the torque on several spots and i mean it looks about right for what i should be at for 26 psi if the clutch wasnt slipping, might be able to eek a extra 10-15 ft lbs out at 26 psi, mayby(doubtful) but most of my further tuning should just help it keep the power on, not gona see above that without turning it up to 30, at 30 psi i would estimate i max about 660 ft lbs guesstimate on what the turbo should be flowing and what ive seen also what binder has seen. honestly jeff i think turn it up to 26 psi and add timing and your gona be way past 600 ft lbs just later in the power band from your cams, since i noticed you already hit 581(resulting in a higher hp number then me.) not sure what cams your running but 900 rpm right shift dosnt seem crazy, i also am running both ceramic coating, heat wrap(and turbo blanket) and then high temp paint on top of that(not sure how much its helping though) so i should definitly spool a couple hundred sooner just from that, especially with straight pipe exhuast back pressure after the turbo should be a 0 issue.
Last edited by jerryd87; 08-05-2012 at 11:01 PM.
08-06-2012, 06:58 AM
#311
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I think Jeff is using bc stage 2 , 262 or something around there. I know I got more agressive cams then he does (tomei 272 ) plus I'm revup and i got the 6766 t4 1.32 at with quick spool and going to compound it with t60-1. Wondering how different that will be from your power curve
08-06-2012, 07:00 AM
#312
wow i will never buy a southbend product again, there response was pretty much "sucks to be you contact the vendor" in a couple less words, and of course concept z dosnt seem to know what they are talking about trying to tell me the slippage is normal for a full face clutch and its working how its designed to work, attempting to sell me a puck clutch and that break in times dont matter it simply is "to get used to the clutch" 
not going to be shopping with either place again >.<
not going to be shopping with either place again >.<
08-06-2012, 07:08 AM
#313
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I was going to go with southband but I went with spec twin disc. I had the competition 6 puck stage 4 and it sucked so bad in traffic or.parking, you should get the spec, they are around 1k to 1.3k
08-06-2012, 07:12 AM
#314
yah thats probably what ill end up with just pissed i could have bought that originally but the reviews of southbend + what concept z rated it at(because they where the only place i saw selling them at the time of purchase) i went with that.
like i said last time either place gets my business horrid customer service not to mention flat out lying.
oh yah double bonus went to screen shot the website to see if i could potentially have a legal leg to stand on(not for suing but pressing charges for false advertisement and fraud) and lo and behold the **** bag changed his website so its only listed at 690 ft lbs of torque at the engine now(after it has been listed as over 800 for the past year+) wonderful way to scam a customer and eliminate any potential for repeat business.
too bad i already saved his thread which still lists it as holding 800 ft lbs of torque.
like i said last time either place gets my business horrid customer service not to mention flat out lying.
oh yah double bonus went to screen shot the website to see if i could potentially have a legal leg to stand on(not for suing but pressing charges for false advertisement and fraud) and lo and behold the **** bag changed his website so its only listed at 690 ft lbs of torque at the engine now(after it has been listed as over 800 for the past year+) wonderful way to scam a customer and eliminate any potential for repeat business.
too bad i already saved his thread which still lists it as holding 800 ft lbs of torque.
Last edited by jerryd87; 08-06-2012 at 07:25 AM.
08-06-2012, 09:20 AM
#316
im just gona go with the spec ST since its rated for 1200 ft lbs, 200 ft lbs isnt much of a upgrade so ill go for broke. still pissed i spent like 3 grand with concept z though and they are pretty much like "screw you sucker"
i even offered to pay the difference for the spec and send them the southbend back since i was lied to about what it holds. im gona try and keep breaking it in but if im having problems now i imagine ill have problems down the road as well.
i even offered to pay the difference for the spec and send them the southbend back since i was lied to about what it holds. im gona try and keep breaking it in but if im having problems now i imagine ill have problems down the road as well.