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I'm not sure those two little ducts will provide enough CFM's to allow sufficient air flow. I would think at minimal you would want 75% of the surface area in escape room, if that makes sense.
I dont disagree with you and this will be 'guess & check' for sure! Think about the velocity of airflow through each 3" ... maybe I can do some linear math airspeed x cross sectional area-wise.
There will also be a 'high pressure / low pressure' zone that'll pull air through and I do have a 16" spal pulling 2100 cfm of air too ... we shall see!
The thread of 'innovation', love it. But I have to gree with Conway 160 that those NACA ducts are too small, way too small in my opinion. Have you looked at pics of the duct work that Porsche and others use, that will give you an idea. Keep in mind that there is no frontal pressure like that used to make a conventional radiator work and don't forget air exit which is just as important as inlet. Exit should be located in a low pressure area of the car just like the inlet in a high pressure place.
Appreciate both responses and the link!
I'm not 100% what I can do at this point but I'll get it figured out! As mentioned above, it may be trial & error / guess & check
It's like all these sorts of things, the start must begin with calculating what is required to do the job. Only then can the second phase begin which is working out how to physically do what is required.
I love the thought of a rear radiator, I also know that it can be a HUGE pain to bleed. I had a Pontiac FIero and it was a nightmare bleed.
I can not wait to see the engineering behind this. I'm not a huge help on this but I'm a phone call away if you need someone to pass ideas back and forth with.
I think that's the biggest fun of it, experimenting.
Totally agree - I can't remember how many 'setups' I've had ...
Originally Posted by 260DET
It's like all these sorts of things, the start must begin with calculating what is required to do the job. Only then can the second phase begin which is working out how to physically do what is required.
I dont disagree with 'calculating' what's required but there's no equation where you can plug in variables, constants, factors, efficiencies to determine is this works without simply doing it.
Originally Posted by Conway_160
I love the thought of a rear radiator, I also know that it can be a HUGE pain to bleed. I had a Pontiac FIero and it was a nightmare bleed.
I can not wait to see the engineering behind this. I'm not a huge help on this but I'm a phone call away if you need someone to pass ideas back and forth with.
This engine is just a pain to bleed anyways...I have no issues bleeding though after I put those bleeder ports in and I also eliminated many unnecessary hoses/ports ... it's basically fill and burp.
I got a question ... most coolant cooled turbos take coolant from the heater hose pipe...I'm trying to eliminate that ports... Can I feed coolant (to the turbo) from a point right in front of the thermostat/thermostat housing and then deposit it back to the OEM hard pipe behind the engine?
Yeah I understand the calculating problem, 'working out' may be better for your situation. As I said, the base reference is getting the amount of air in and out comparable with a front mounted radiator.
I got a question ... most coolant cooled turbos take coolant from the heater hose pipe...I'm trying to eliminate that ports... Can I feed coolant (to the turbo) from a point right in front of the thermostat/thermostat housing and then deposit it back to the OEM hard pipe behind the engine?
I would think as long as you get the coolant from the "cold" side of the coolant and return on the "hot" side it will not matter where you get the coolant from.
On garrets website I do not see a coolant PSI rating like you do for Oil.
The only thing Garrett talks about is ensuring the supply side is the bottom of the turbo and the return is the top side of the turbo. So in theory you could go from port on the right side of the thermostat to the turbo, and then return the water to the hardline on the passenger side of the block where the oil cooler used to go.
I might've missed it but have you given any considerations to the water pump with the rear mount radiator setup? Wondering if the stock water pump might have issues moving water over that distance
I got a question ... most coolant cooled turbos take coolant from the heater hose pipe...I'm trying to eliminate that ports... Can I feed coolant (to the turbo) from a point right in front of the thermostat/thermostat housing and then deposit it back to the OEM hard pipe behind the engine?[/QUOTE]
Yes, but it will flow backwards from what you're thinking. The front of the thermostat is the suction side of the coolant pump. There's no good place to get pressurised cold coolant as the pump outlet gallery is inside the block. That's basically how most heater setups work, pressure from the hot outlet on the back of the block on that hard pipe (which is connected to the inlet of the heater core through the heater hose), and return to the other heater hose which then bypasses the rad and is connected to the other side of the thermostat. That block entry on the driver side goes directly to the pump inlet and past the stat. Also if you do that and the stat is closed, you won't get flow, but the heater return will.
The only way to get cold rad return to the turbo's would be an aux coolant pump in the rad return hose.
I would think as long as you get the coolant from the "cold" side of the coolant and return on the "hot" side it will not matter where you get the coolant from.
On garrets website I do not see a coolant PSI rating like you do for Oil.
The only thing Garrett talks about is ensuring the supply side is the bottom of the turbo and the return is the top side of the turbo. So in theory you could go from port on the right side of the thermostat to the turbo, and then return the water to the hardline on the passenger side of the block where the oil cooler used to go.
Yea, I'm not exactly sure how to determine which side has higher pressure but I think I have it hooked up backwards as far as cold side vs. hot side. Nothing that I cant undo but I think I hooked them up wrong??
Originally Posted by thatv35guy
I might've missed it but have you given any considerations to the water pump with the rear mount radiator setup? Wondering if the stock water pump might have issues moving water over that distance
Yea, I'm definitely running a pump. It'll be located off the backside of the engine pushing coolant from the engine to the radiator and back up to the block.
Originally Posted by aarrgghh
Yes, but it will flow backwards from what you're thinking. The front of the thermostat is the suction side of the coolant pump. There's no good place to get pressurised cold coolant as the pump outlet gallery is inside the block. That's basically how most heater setups work, pressure from the hot outlet on the back of the block on that hard pipe (which is connected to the inlet of the heater core through the heater hose), and return to the other heater hose which then bypasses the rad and is connected to the other side of the thermostat. That block entry on the driver side goes directly to the pump inlet and past the stat. Also if you do that and the stat is closed, you won't get flow, but the heater return will.
The only way to get cold rad return to the turbo's would be an aux coolant pump in the rad return hose.
See attached picture ... I am supplying coolant from right before the thermostat housing ... I'm thinking I will have positive pressure here as the aftermarket pump is pushing coolant to the radiator and back up to the engine block. I'll be returning coolant about 24" before the aftermarket pump ... wouldnt the pump be pulling coolant?? I guess it'd be a difference between the flow rate of the OEM pump minus the flow rate of the aftermarket pump??
Originally Posted by 0taku
Cheaper option could be using a livewell pump for boats?
Pretty much serves the same purpose I'd imagine without the outrageous "aftermarket" markups.
I dont know exactly how I'd setup a pump up like that with a small ~1/2" inlet/outlet port with the 1.25" hose? The Davies Craig pump wasnt too expensive, I found a deal on one.
More progress ... trying to get the car back on the road by the weekend so that I can make a local VQ facebook group toy drive ...
I'll be re-fabricating both the turbo>IC and the IC>TB throttle body charge pipes. A little cherry on top of this is that I can eliminate 24" to 36" of charge pipe (less weight and less volume for the turbo to compress). I got the turbo>IC done today.
Ran the coolant hoses (initially) and assembled the pump (but will likely have to disassemble to make a bracket).
Got both sides of the IC charge pipes just about wrapped up ... I need to source a BOV flange and possibly a IAT sensor weld-in bung too - gonna try to source these locally or I'll have to wait until after the Thanksgiving Break.
Made a little bracket that'll bolt to the bell-housing of the transmission and hold the pump.
Hoses are run and three of six connections are bolted in.
Also picked up a Z1 diff cover (used) and a set of Z1 poly bushes for the diff
Got a lead for a 50mm BOV flange, WMI bungs, and a IAT temp sensor bung ... gonna go grab them today and hopefully get this wrapped up over the next few days.
Got everything buttoned-up and filled ... luckily no leaks and I think I'm 100% bled but I will continue to burp the system as I drive the car the next few days.
Unfortunately the cooling fan electrical isnt going to work out as I intended ... or I need to do some more digging. The fan circuits each draw about 10amps of power so I do have some options.
At simple idle the car warmed up and with the fans going I could easily bring the temperature down ... I am worried about when I drive the car normal or push the car how it'll react. I'll keep the thread updated. Next up will be getting ducts installed and plumbed accordingly.
Not sure if the coolant overflow tank has to be physically higher than the port in the radiator? I dont think it does? I think when the engine cools down it pulls coolant back into the radiator??
