Flo-ridaZ33

iTrader: (60)

Gabe has GTM Rotrex kit on his G and it's a nice set up. The Rotrex units are real nice and quick, spool quickly too.

ogiehooker

Yep, Gabes car was at GTM BEFORE mine arrived and remained there almost another year after I removed mine 1.5 yrs later. Roughly 2 years for that install and he suffered the same BS from Sam as I did...

Still want GTM to do your install?

A-Town-Z

iTrader: (4)

Vortech makes a kit for the HR?

And I'm not doing this to pick up chicks lol.. I dont need a car to do that. Ask any of the guys on here with massive power if they can push their car the it's limits. They'll either say no, or not at first. So that's my goal, to build a car to be safe, and capable of holding 800whp, but starting the boost off at 8psi or 10psi for awhile. Get comfortable with that, and then turn it up. I'm not lazy, or fat. And I'm very passionate about the Z platform. I've learned alot since I first joined, and plan on learnig alot more.

Flo-ridaZ33

iTrader: (60)

I don't give a flying **** to be perfectly honest with you as I don't own a Z anymore. Now you're being obnoxious... you made you're point so STFU already.


I know I'm going to come off as an a-hole but dude just invest your money in other ways. VQ's don't do boost real well and that's a known fact. Even people that have dropped a lot of money in a build blew their engines. Stillen makes a Vortech set up for the 370z and I believe they do one for the HR as well.

Phillip_G35

iTrader: (1)

Be carefull if you choose to go with GTM, I order a M37 supercharger kit and it has been APITA!... Getting the tunne from Sam was looooooonnngggggg journey and kit came with G37 instructions......
Parts were ok, but customer services is **** as hell!!!

BE AWARE!

A-Town-Z

iTrader: (4)

I'm very open to suggestions.. so don't worry, I have tough skin. I WILL NOT BE GOING WITH GTM BTW.. But ultimately though, wouldn't the success of the build rely in the experience of the builder, As well as proper maintenance? I just dont see how a properly built motor would fail. I'll do some research , but If you know off the top of your head, the failure points of those motors you speak of, that'd be mint.

Also, When I decide to do this, I will use strong internals, CP pistons, Carillo H beams, Ferrea valvetrain Darton sleeves, ARP main and head studs, Cosworth bearings. Everything will be tore apart and trued up. 5 angle valve job, ProEFI ecu, etc. From what I have read, the success of the motor lies in the hands of the builder, than proper maintenance in the hands of the owner.

Flo-ridaZ33

iTrader: (60)

It's a matter of when not if it blows up. One negative about the Rotrex units is they use a specific traction fluid in them and have maintenance requirements. Aside from GTM, Jackson Racing(or whatever it's called now) and Active Autowerk... no one really uses them so parts availability isn't all that great. You picked a poor platform for big horsepower... don't feed it money to prove that fact.

grimm66

These cars are best left stock. It's stupid cash to get real hp out of these engines and they just don't last. Like Flo-ridaZ33 said, they don't play well with boost. I don't think there is even a built and boosted shop car still running.

I wanted to mod this car as well as most people but as i came to reality and realized for the money there are way better platforms to go with I gladly moved to the V8's.

Now I love the car as I still have my 03 but anyone that reads this forum can see there are more horror threads then success with FI on this platform. As I tell most people... If the import car isn't already FI'd from the factory don't waste your time with it. Haha and lets not get started on the worthless bolt on's!

A-Town-Z

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the responses fellas..

Aside from the supercharging standpoint.. I have thrown that idea out the window.. Twin turbo's or single turbo seems like a much better idea.. and I know it a matter of when. It's inevitable. Every motor will blow eventually. Its really dissappointing to hear that the VQ wont hold power reliably though. It sucks thinking that I may have to go LS to get reliable power.

I know alberto has burned through a couple vq's, so has midz. Along with a few others I'm sure.. Swapping isn't out of the question..I really enjoy the sound of v8's though. 2JZ would be cool..

I dont really want "massive" power though.I previously stated 800whp or someting, because that was the limit of the supercharges IIRC. Obviously pointless on the street. Id be incredibly happy with 600, hell I'd be happy with 500. The point I want to get across is realiability. If I have to put 15K in to the motor to see 600hp reliably then so be it. I dont want to push the motor to it's limits every day. I've heard about stock block HR's holding 500+ reliably. Which to me is rather impressive. I just feel like double the power would fit the car alot better.

ogiehooker

"I don't give a flying **** to be perfectly honest with you as I don't own a Z anymore. Now you're being obnoxious... you made you're point so STFU already. "

I had previously given the OP MY story of dealing with GTM...by emphasizing gabe's car, which you brought up, I wanted to show the OP that my case was not an isolated one but a widespread problem with GTM...is that ok with you mister ***** name flo-rida? STFU YEA....

A-Town-Z

iTrader: (4)

How many people have built HR's anyway? I've only found a couple threads, and they are around 500hp. Fairly mild builds

Flo-ridaZ33

iTrader: (60)

The fact that you don't know how to use the "reply with quote" button directly reflects your intellect. With that said... "Yes" you have my permission to give your reasoning."STFU Yea" has to be the weakest comeback I've seen in a while. I added your quotes above... WE GET THE POINT.

Nismo350z#0310

iTrader: (1)

Supercharger system will never make the same power as easily as the TT setup.

HRs can hold 500whp on stock block. i.e. see my setup. But from what a few shops have told me the HR can handle up to 540whp. Anyhting under 540whp has been said as "safe" to me. These shops with lots of experience in building the HR. If you don't want anymore than that, building is not necessary.

My view: $10,000 for a SC kit is BULLOCKS considering it won't make power as easily as the stage one TT kit. My advise, don't even bother if you don't have atleast $15k stored up, it cost me more. I'd go TT if I were you. Just from what I've seen.

Lastly, DO NOT take your car to GTM to do the install. You might get it back in a
year- if you're lucky. I'd go my route which is order the kit and anythign straight from them. If you can order more parts from them, they will give you a package deal shipped - atleast they did for me - because I asked for one. I got a REALLY good deal. But be prepared to wait atleast 2 months and up to 3 to receive the parts.
Once you have the parts, use a shop you trust to install and tune. Make sure this shop knows how to tune the Z and has a lot of experience.



Also, the HRs are very reliable and can hold a good amount of power. Our HR engines are completely different than that of the DE engine. It is not true that "every engine will blow eventually." Nothing is absolute certain but care and maintenance will help it last a long while. Also, Alberto's experience is different. Again - these engines and the types of builds are different than his.

edit: There are only 3 documented HR engines blown from FI and all three are extenuating circumstances. One was gas contamination which resulted in a class action lawsuit, one was a vacuum line come off, causing PSI to spike to 16 and weakened a rod, the other is a Z from another country who never had a tune once he installed the kit. These engines are also different from the DE in their torque to hp ratio. Our torque numbers are much lower. The torque is what will cause a rod to snap or a bearing to spin. Again, see my build. 503whp with only 407wtq. Many of the DEs with 407twtq are usually right at 407-420whp. From my knowledge it's just the characteristic difference between the engines, but it's one reason we can make more power. (Leaving out the fact our rods are slightly thicker as well.) We also have a higher redline. Almost 1000 more RPMs and horsepower is equal to RPMs times torque divided by 5250. Again, another reason we are able to make more power. etc etc etc

Nismo350z#0310

iTrader: (1)

Please list your own personal experiences and/or references to where the HR engine won't hold boost well. Or GTFO

Flo-ridaZ33

iTrader: (60)

Well all things being fair the HR is newer, once it gets up in age like the DE's did... it'll blow. Actually I read about a G37 that grenaded... can't think of who built it.

A-Town-Z

iTrader: (4)

Thank you for this!! I knew the HR was different from the DE, but I wanted to do more research before I made any conclusions. This helped my search significantly.

I'm only looking for 600hp, but I want it to be strong enough to handle 700 or so, just to aid in the reliability. I'm not certain if I want to get anything from GTM at this point. Because if they can lie, and steal from one person, they wont have any problems doing it to someone else..

I'm throwing the Twin supercharged idea out. It's not feasable at this point anymore, as it needs to be built in house, and I wont let them touch my car. I'm leaning towards Greddy twins, or S&R single.

Do you know of anyone around the 600hp mark with the HR?

Thanks again Nismo350z#310

Nismo350z#0310

iTrader: (1)

I've added more info to my previous post. Refer back to it.

For 600whp I would not go stock. Is it possible? lol Maybe for a little while. NO way would I chance that. The monies you are going to spend to build isn't worth the 50whp though. Not in my opinion. If you are going to do it right and you are going to use quality shops and not do any of the work yourself, I would guess it being around $30k to do a full engine FI build. $15k in kit and supporting mods. $5k in built engine including core, $10k in installing it all and dyno tuning. There are some shops that will do cheap installs. But again, I'd rather pay extra and not have to do it all over once something goes wrong.

Like I said, I think going stock block FI and aiming for 500whp is what's best and will last a good long time if the correct people do it and the correct care and maintenance follow.

Going with GTM for the parts is an OK idea. Just be prepared to wait for it. Greddy is a Awesome kit but it will be significantly more. I was able to get a stage 2 kit, fuel pump and injectors, defi boost, oil and innovate wideband gauges, spark plugs, 25 row oil cooler kit all shipped to my door for $500 less than just the greddy kit retail price. It doesn't fit as well as the Greddy and I'm still needing to work out a few kinks, but like I said, it's your call. S&R is a GREAT product. I would actually recommend them. They make a quality single kit and in house install for a GREAT price, IMO. Only, I would probably go with S&R over anything else. It also looks SICK in the engine bay.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

it is EXTREMELY expensive to get high power in these cars that is 100% without a doubt. however the people saying "its a matter of when not if it blows up" that is going to be exactly the same REGARDLESS of the engine. the people who go on and on about how these engines cannot take boost are ALL, every single one, from shops that dont know what they are doing like IPP, Forged, GTM, or some no name shop. i havnt seen ANY people from VTR, sound performance or dynosty saying the same thing, probably because there engines still run strong.

as far as shop cars vinnny tens pro drag vq35 still runs. hal from dynostys 350z still runs, no idea what happen to IP's green car to be honest but since hal, eddie, dustin dont work there anymore i wouldnt go there anyway. the only cause of failure in sound performance car was a ROD BOLT, something that can happen in ANY built car dosnt matter who makes it. it WAS NOT the traditional VQ35 failures of dropped sleeves from improper installation or spun bearings or hell even a blown up oil pump.

ive said it once, ill say it again, and ill keep saying it there is NOTHING magical about the vq35 preventing it from making power, in fact if you notice it makes more power then any v6 import out there in pro drag racing and holds the record for highest mph. yah its a billet block but a billet block isnt one of the traditional failure points and they are making WAY more power then anyone here would.

the vq35 has SIGNIFICANT advantages over alot of the import platforms. will you be able to mod a domestic v8 for huge power a bit cheaper? ehhhhhh mayby as long as you buy a car with it already installed, but then your also going to be spending 2-3x as much on the base car, total investment is going to be just as high.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

alberto also went to forged and GTM for engines,as far as i know he never had a third engine built by his current shop pf supercars but i think there is one or two other members who had actual engines built by them making 600+ whp still going strong., midz went through ipp, like i said in my previous comment going to a shop that actually knows what they are doing is the key, not who is the cheapest or talks the biggest game.


there is absolutely no reason you cant make 600 whp reliably on this engine, you go ls swap your going to invest several thousand extra into it over just building the vq, go to a different car and your going to be double to triple the cost of building your current car because the cost of the vehicles is much higher.

personally i think if your going to pay someone to do the car, and you can get the car to dynosty then do it, they will get you setup good with exactly what you want.

A-Town-Z

iTrader: (4)

I re-read your post, and will take note to ensure that those things dont happen to my build, when that time comes. I think a good ECU like ProEFI128 would help insure safety. But 30K is what I planned on spending for the whole setup, with a little wiggle room. Potentially with quality wheels, brakes etc..45K (which is the VERY top), I'm sure If I order all of tha parts through a certain shop, I will get a discount, or I can wait and find used for certain things. I have become rather attached to the Z, and would prefer spending more on it then purchasing a stock vehicle for the same price.

I really appreciate your input! This has given me hope!! hah

jerryd87;

I have read several of the threads that you have posted in, and am extremely jealous of your knowledge of the VQ platform. Thank you for chiming in.

I've tried to read, and learn from other people's mistakes. And so far, I've gathered that its all about who builds it, and how you take care of it. Thrashing on it for 5000 miles, NO NO. Cold start, high revs, NO NO. Using a turbo timer, and proper ECU's with failsafes, proper maintenance, and overall better care. Things like this that are common sense, I feel some people dont really take into consideration.

Thank you for your input!

ALSO: Dynosty is top on my list of builders as of now.