So I've been tieing up the loose ends in my spare time, and the build has been slowly going well. Keep on adding parts here and there obviously delaying everything, but I go to crank the engine over a bit, and the damn thing just gets stuck!

So I did the logical thing... Checked grounds/leads to starter, fine! Swapped batteries 3 times... Still nada. Pulled the starter, stress tested the sh*t out of it at napa... Still!

At best the car will turn over very very very slowly.... Typically it just cuts power to everything and barely jerks the engine. I put my finger on the flywheel (through the open mudguard) and I can feel it jerk ever so slightly.

I thought it was small/bad battery leads (to pc680) so I hooked up jumper cables to the posi and the frame... still same issue.

Before I put the motor in the car, I turned it over and everything was smooth and sounded healthy as can be! I did get the thing to rotate all the way over with the starter but waaaay too slowly.


Thoughts!? It sounds like a big bad issue... Where would you guys start?

I don't think my valve lash could be off THAT much... I'd imagine the timing chain would break before it kept the whole engine from turning over... but Maybe the manual transmission I bought is fawked, and the guy who sold it to me lied?

Feel free to point out the obvious, hell even flame me (as long as you can come up with something ). I'll try to find my socket to turn the engine over next time I have time to work on her.

 

If the car was dropped off to me...

first I would pull out all the plugs to eliminate compression and spin the motor by hand (well, with a ratchet and socket of course) to make sure it turns freely. It should obviously spin rather easily. This is to double check for interference or obstruction. You want to spin the crank at least 2 full revolutions.

If it spins by hand; then I would unplug the fuel injection harness at the back of the intake manifold. Double check oil level. Turn the key and let it start cranking. It should spin rather quickly and smoothly with no plugs in it. If you did it long enough, it would build oil pressure... but if youre running one of those little crap batteries... good luck with that.

If it doesnt spin freely by the starter then, I would check one more time by hand, to make sure nothing has changed and theres no interference.

From there, I would go over all the grounds, and probably add one or two extra engine to chassis grounds incase I was missing/forgetting one somewhere.

If it still doesnt crank off the starter, I would throw that POS battery in the trash and get a real one.

 

long story short, when someone is trying to fire up their new built engine and it wont start, 99 times out 100, its a ground or battery problem.

 

Yeah the pc680 is a pos but it's small and light.

I did try it with a standard battery from a van...

Will try without plugs and pull the injection harness... Will also double check all grounds...

Just a note, she's not quite ready to start, waiting on some oil lines... Switched to oil the turbo from the engine rather than a remote setup (I need to do more work to get the remote mount to work correctly, atm I just want it running that may come down the road). And no I didn't try to crank it without oil, lol. I did all cranking tests before I drained/pulled the lower pan and added a spacer.

 

So put some time into the car today; it was reaaaally hard to turn over by hand, but then i got a bit of pb blaster into the cylinders and let it sit... then added a bit of wd40 and slowly got the first intake valves to open. Sprayed wd40 in each cylinder one at a time and it got easier and easier to crank as she went. Now she turns over smooth as butter (without the starter bolted in). I didn't do any extra cranks to avoid running the low end dry (no oil: need to finish up the turbo return lines before I can put oil in).

I sprayed the valves down pretty good too with wd40 just to help a little, but I know it's not enough. Going to figure it out and post up what the final solution is. To me it looks like it was just really dry and semi seized?

 

Sounds sort of fishy to me.

Was the engine assembled dry? Generally I use assembly lube on the bearings, wrist pins, etc, and a coating of oil to the cylinder walls before putting the heads on. Assembly lube again to the cam surfaces etc. Having done this, you are free to spin the engine as much as you could possibly have the energy to do by hand.

What you're describing sounds more like things I have done before installing a used engine that has been sitting for a long time and likely to be bone dry.

I do suppose though that your description of "really hard" to turn is relative... depending on what length tool you are using and what you are comparing it to if you have turned other engines by hand or not.

The thing is, the starter has insane torque. Without there being a real mechanical blockage, the start will push through just about anything. It has enough torque to bend the valves over minor clearance issues, etc. So I am still thinking you have a ground or battery issue if the starter isnt cranking the motor around.

 

Would you guys have the same issues as the AT when it comes to aligning your trans properly? Sorry I can't get into more detail but I know with my auto it was a little known alignment issue that caused similar problems.

It just ticked- but otherwise nothing. Exactly like it was seized.


Of course- I'm expecting it to be different but I will throw it out there because it sounds like even the stupid suggestions are welcome here according to the IP.

 

I do think it could be bone dry at this point; it has been sitting outside in the car for nearly a year! And I drained out the oil that was in it to put in the oil spacer, so I'm sure it washed away some assy lube. I was under the impression you shouldn't put assy lube directly on the cam retainers as that will just mess up your torque readings by increasing clearance and then consequently will also screw up your valvelash. I doused them in oil, and I'm sure there's barely any on there now. I know for a fact dynosty did lube the short block though.

Even though it's dry I'm not super concerned that I spun it over... The engine has probably spun less than 3 full cycles since assembled. Once while on the stand to check for compression etc, and less than 2x here in the car. Might not be ideal but I doubt this much low speed rotation with a bit of oil will make a difference. That being said I may pull off the valvecovers and smother the lobes with assy lube before first start so that I can ensure they're properly lubricated until oil pressure is made.

I'm not entirely sure about the ground situation, I did have a grounding kit I made on the car when I first tried it, but it could be a loose ground somewhere on the way to the starter (which is what I wanted to check per your recommendation).


ENO:
That's actually something I was thinking about myself. I have a Spec Super Twin clutch/flywheel, which I know other member on this board reported had tooth alignment issues. Now that I've confirmed it's not anything mechanical, have some fresh lubrication in the cylinders, and moved the flywheel position it should help fix any issues with tooth alignment. As phunk stated, the starter has crazy torque (part of the reason why this whole thing has been confusing me) so for it to not turn at all is very strange. Tooth miss-alignment sounds very possible!