for the people who dont think intake design is a big deal for FI
for the people who dont think intake design is a big deal for FI
heres a decent thread, its about mustangs but shows how it does indeed matter just as much as NA, a few guys burning pistons from the flow not being distributed properly. the stuff from the turbo v6 mustang guys is more towards the back of the thread. even throttle body placement alters how the airflow works on even a FI vehicle, probably why the greddy(think its greddy) intake picks up some decent power on the GTR. the piston the mustang burnt out when the meth failed was one of the higher flowing cylinders.
http://www.theturboforums.com/thread...d-design/page6
http://www.theturboforums.com/thread...d-design/page6
Last edited by jerryd87; Oct 27, 2013 at 12:44 AM.
#6 is usually the 1st to go since it the leanest and has the least cooling. Driver bank typically runs a quarter point leaner as well. I actually did cyl trim adjustments adding more fuel towards the rear and driver side cylinders, along with an angled spacer to help airflow towards the front. The stock intake is decent but you really do have to compensate for the uneven flow. Plus I doubt there's any off the shelf plenum for the VQ that flows perfectly even.
Last edited by djamps; Oct 27, 2013 at 01:08 PM.
yah bealljk they have some pretty intense stuff over there, ive always loved going there to see what new stuff people try.
mostly this is because ive seen SOME(not all just some) people mention when recommending parts to people that the intake isnt a huge deal because its being forced in.
no nothing off the shelf is going to be great....... for now ive got solid works installing now going to be working on a new variable intake manifold in addition to my 4 link project for back home. obviously summer would be about the soonest i would have a prototype out though since i wont even be back till feb/march since they screwed up some of my paperwork to get out. i needed something i would be able to integrate simulation software into easier then 123design i was using lol
mostly this is because ive seen SOME(not all just some) people mention when recommending parts to people that the intake isnt a huge deal because its being forced in.
no nothing off the shelf is going to be great....... for now ive got solid works installing now going to be working on a new variable intake manifold in addition to my 4 link project for back home. obviously summer would be about the soonest i would have a prototype out though since i wont even be back till feb/march since they screwed up some of my paperwork to get out. i needed something i would be able to integrate simulation software into easier then 123design i was using lol
yah bealljk they have some pretty intense stuff over there, ive always loved going there to see what new stuff people try.
mostly this is because ive seen SOME(not all just some) people mention when recommending parts to people that the intake isnt a huge deal because its being forced in.
no nothing off the shelf is going to be great....... for now ive got solid works installing now going to be working on a new variable intake manifold in addition to my 4 link project for back home. obviously summer would be about the soonest i would have a prototype out though since i wont even be back till feb/march since they screwed up some of my paperwork to get out. i needed something i would be able to integrate simulation software into easier then 123design i was using lol
mostly this is because ive seen SOME(not all just some) people mention when recommending parts to people that the intake isnt a huge deal because its being forced in.
no nothing off the shelf is going to be great....... for now ive got solid works installing now going to be working on a new variable intake manifold in addition to my 4 link project for back home. obviously summer would be about the soonest i would have a prototype out though since i wont even be back till feb/march since they screwed up some of my paperwork to get out. i needed something i would be able to integrate simulation software into easier then 123design i was using lol
I've sen this too a bunch and I couldn't disagree more. Just because a spacer doesn't add all that much HP doesn't mean it isn't going to make a big impact on how air moves into the cylinders.
My current intake setup: Oem upper (eventually will remove those 6 silly bolts and gain some volume there), 1/2" motordyne, rev up lower, 1/2" motordyne injector spacer, (tapped for direct port meth) oem lower runners. Big plenum, short runners.
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yah bealljk they have some pretty intense stuff over there, ive always loved going there to see what new stuff people try.
mostly this is because ive seen SOME(not all just some) people mention when recommending parts to people that the intake isnt a huge deal because its being forced in.
no nothing off the shelf is going to be great....... for now ive got solid works installing now going to be working on a new variable intake manifold in addition to my 4 link project for back home. obviously summer would be about the soonest i would have a prototype out though since i wont even be back till feb/march since they screwed up some of my paperwork to get out. i needed something i would be able to integrate simulation software into easier then 123design i was using lol
mostly this is because ive seen SOME(not all just some) people mention when recommending parts to people that the intake isnt a huge deal because its being forced in.
no nothing off the shelf is going to be great....... for now ive got solid works installing now going to be working on a new variable intake manifold in addition to my 4 link project for back home. obviously summer would be about the soonest i would have a prototype out though since i wont even be back till feb/march since they screwed up some of my paperwork to get out. i needed something i would be able to integrate simulation software into easier then 123design i was using lol
I cannot believe how far behind a lot of the domestic guys are in intake manifolds. The OEMs are clearly setting the example by improving their manifolds greatly, especially the last several years. But not everyone racing them has caught on.
I look at the stuff that so many guys are running.... Example, there is a huge grudge racing scene that local guys I know participate in... and I have tried and tried to get them to let me build them a billet intake manifold for cost of materials but they are not believers. They are running those ridiculous carb style manifolds and producing somewhere between 1500-1800rwhp (they wont say but its clearly in that range based on performance). I notice that when they have to go through the engine a few times a year, it appears to always be a burned up piston somewhere in the middle 4 cyl. I gave up!
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is it older school type small blocks? alot of the old school small blocks had major issues since the middle two cylinders on each side had the exhaust valves right next to each other making hot spots that definitely didnt help. cant remember off the top of my head.
billet is just SO damn expensive needing a cnc mill, anything ill make with be sheet metal fabbed theres no way ill be able to go directly into a cnc mill when i open a shop, althought cast is a possibility if it works good to drop cost since i have a 3d printer. but variable runners with the VVT SHOULD extend the rpm range even further especially with larger cams. need to sit down and do the math now have a couple different designs both larger 90+ mm single TB and dual stock since it will require a control box anyway if not using after market ems to trigger solenoids
billet is just SO damn expensive needing a cnc mill, anything ill make with be sheet metal fabbed theres no way ill be able to go directly into a cnc mill when i open a shop, althought cast is a possibility if it works good to drop cost since i have a 3d printer. but variable runners with the VVT SHOULD extend the rpm range even further especially with larger cams. need to sit down and do the math now have a couple different designs both larger 90+ mm single TB and dual stock since it will require a control box anyway if not using after market ems to trigger solenoids
I agree 100%
I cannot believe how far behind a lot of the domestic guys are in intake manifolds. The OEMs are clearly setting the example by improving their manifolds greatly, especially the last several years. But not everyone racing them has caught on.
I look at the stuff that so many guys are running.... Example, there is a huge grudge racing scene that local guys I know participate in... and I have tried and tried to get them to let me build them a billet intake manifold for cost of materials but they are not believers. They are running those ridiculous carb style manifolds and producing somewhere between 1500-1800rwhp (they wont say but its clearly in that range based on performance). I notice that when they have to go through the engine a few times a year, it appears to always be a burned up piston somewhere in the middle 4 cyl. I gave up!
I cannot believe how far behind a lot of the domestic guys are in intake manifolds. The OEMs are clearly setting the example by improving their manifolds greatly, especially the last several years. But not everyone racing them has caught on.
I look at the stuff that so many guys are running.... Example, there is a huge grudge racing scene that local guys I know participate in... and I have tried and tried to get them to let me build them a billet intake manifold for cost of materials but they are not believers. They are running those ridiculous carb style manifolds and producing somewhere between 1500-1800rwhp (they wont say but its clearly in that range based on performance). I notice that when they have to go through the engine a few times a year, it appears to always be a burned up piston somewhere in the middle 4 cyl. I gave up!
Last edited by jerryd87; Oct 28, 2013 at 01:08 PM.
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Posts: 329
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From: chicago
the guys i know are running fords... they were on the mod motors for a while but i believe their heaviest hitter is using an older style pushrod motor. i dont keep up with it too much but ive known them for years so i chat with them every now and then and peek at what they are up to. however this conversation lead me to sending them a message again and now I am meeting up with them tomorrow to discuss a manifold build with them, lol
fabrication works... our first intake manifold prototype was fabricated. it was never run, it just sits in a cabinet here. i had issues trusting it to hold up long term.. but thats just this particular one.. with some work a sturdy fabricated one could definitely exist. You could always CAD design a few billet parts and have them outsourced, and weld the rest together.
brandon and i have contemplated variable runner for many years. never got too serious into it. We wanted to come up with something that could run independently of the EMS... some type of mechanical-only actuation. One of my favorite ideas I had was to try using oil pressure... being that its something that changes consistently with RPM... but of course the huge variable there is the viscosity and temperature of the oil... it would cause all sorts of problems if you didnt control temp pretty strictly. Of course, this is all stuff we wanted to experiment with on our FD RX7 where it is a very very simple runner layout.. therefore making it far more simple to construct and prototype.
fabrication works... our first intake manifold prototype was fabricated. it was never run, it just sits in a cabinet here. i had issues trusting it to hold up long term.. but thats just this particular one.. with some work a sturdy fabricated one could definitely exist. You could always CAD design a few billet parts and have them outsourced, and weld the rest together.
brandon and i have contemplated variable runner for many years. never got too serious into it. We wanted to come up with something that could run independently of the EMS... some type of mechanical-only actuation. One of my favorite ideas I had was to try using oil pressure... being that its something that changes consistently with RPM... but of course the huge variable there is the viscosity and temperature of the oil... it would cause all sorts of problems if you didnt control temp pretty strictly. Of course, this is all stuff we wanted to experiment with on our FD RX7 where it is a very very simple runner layout.. therefore making it far more simple to construct and prototype.
Last edited by phunk2; Oct 28, 2013 at 01:20 PM.
yah i have no issue trusting a fabbed manifold, my experience with domestics alot of people run sheet metal intakes especially the outlaw 10.5 guys running especially hogan and wilson manifolds.
could use electronics seperate from ems, ems is by far easier but can use coil signals to determine rpm like my speedhut tach does and from there trigger solenoids. PWM should even be able to be used to transition from one set of runners to the next.
could use electronics seperate from ems, ems is by far easier but can use coil signals to determine rpm like my speedhut tach does and from there trigger solenoids. PWM should even be able to be used to transition from one set of runners to the next.
the guys i know are running fords... they were on the mod motors for a while but i believe their heaviest hitter is using an older style pushrod motor. i dont keep up with it too much but ive known them for years so i chat with them every now and then and peek at what they are up to. however this conversation lead me to sending them a message again and now I am meeting up with them tomorrow to discuss a manifold build with them, lol
fabrication works... our first intake manifold prototype was fabricated. it was never run, it just sits in a cabinet here. i had issues trusting it to hold up long term.. but thats just this particular one.. with some work a sturdy fabricated one could definitely exist. You could always CAD design a few billet parts and have them outsourced, and weld the rest together.
brandon and i have contemplated variable runner for many years. never got too serious into it. We wanted to come up with something that could run independently of the EMS... some type of mechanical-only actuation. One of my favorite ideas I had was to try using oil pressure... being that its something that changes consistently with RPM... but of course the huge variable there is the viscosity and temperature of the oil... it would cause all sorts of problems if you didnt control temp pretty strictly. Of course, this is all stuff we wanted to experiment with on our FD RX7 where it is a very very simple runner layout.. therefore making it far more simple to construct and prototype.
fabrication works... our first intake manifold prototype was fabricated. it was never run, it just sits in a cabinet here. i had issues trusting it to hold up long term.. but thats just this particular one.. with some work a sturdy fabricated one could definitely exist. You could always CAD design a few billet parts and have them outsourced, and weld the rest together.
brandon and i have contemplated variable runner for many years. never got too serious into it. We wanted to come up with something that could run independently of the EMS... some type of mechanical-only actuation. One of my favorite ideas I had was to try using oil pressure... being that its something that changes consistently with RPM... but of course the huge variable there is the viscosity and temperature of the oil... it would cause all sorts of problems if you didnt control temp pretty strictly. Of course, this is all stuff we wanted to experiment with on our FD RX7 where it is a very very simple runner layout.. therefore making it far more simple to construct and prototype.
I have a feeling this mustang crowd will soon grow and expand with the release, further development and further application of the 3.5 (ironic) ecoboost engine…The older & hardcore V8 only guys will thin out and a newer generation of domestic tuners will emerge and embrace the V6 ecoboost…
I don't know what chevy and/or dodge have up their sleeve (nor do I care) but the next 3 to 5 years will be pretty interesting in the tuner world…
what were we talking about? manifolds?
yah lol, my dad loves the ecoboost in his f150 and honestly ive driven it and its pretty nice. full race made 500 ft lbs at i think it was 3k rpms and peak power of 350ish in the 5k range. the classic v8 guys are probably going to be upset at least with ford since the new mustang gt350 will have a flat plane v8 on it. the lt1 is what im curious about if it will finally help the direct injected market take off. currently if direct injected your kinda screwed on injectors and if you wanna upgrade you need a port injected manifold to add secondary injectors.
Last edited by jerryd87; Oct 28, 2013 at 10:02 PM.
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