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Okay so I’ve got my car back together after having my engine built and I’m breaking it in. In the meantime, I’m looking for suggestions/confirmation on how to get the most of my newly built engine by adding a supercharger. The block is supposed to be good for 650whp and I want to get the most out of it without going over the edge (looks like I don’t have to worry about that with a supercharger setup). My goal is to have a fun car to drive and give ride-alongs. It won’t be my daily driver, but I want it to be a solid platform and somewhat reliable.
Here’s what I am currently running:
04 G35 Coupe 6MT (vq35de)
Forged rods/pistons (8.8:1 Compression Ratio Wiseco/Eagle)
ARP L19 head studs
HR Head gaskets w/ Cooling Modification
Rev-up oil pump
Z1 Lightweight flywheel/performance unsprung clutch (supposed to be good for ~500ft/lbs)
19x11 wheels with 275 tires in the back
All new maintenance items (Timing, Water Pump, Thermostat, Gaskets, etc.)
Here’s where I need suggestions/confirmation:
Supercharger: I need help deciding between HKS and Vortech. At first I wanted to go HKS but Vortech seems like the more popular option, I can go either way. Pro’s Con’s? Pulley setup: I have no clue here. How do I decide what pulley to run for my overall setup? (Probably the 2.87 pulley for Vortech. HKS has sizes from 120 to 80mm) Injectors: Looking at DW 1000cc (should I go with a smaller size, prices aren’t that much different? (600cc, 750cc) Spark Plugs: One Step Colder - NGK PLFR6A-11 Cooling: Koyo G35 V-Core Upgraded Radiator (Will install oil cooler eventually if things don’t blow up on the dyno) Fuel system: Just a pump or do I need to run a return setup? Looking at Deatschwerks DW300 pump and CJM S0 Fuel System if needed
Do I need e85? 93 octane is easily available where I live and I’m running low compression, what would e85 gain me? Is it worth the trouble?
Misc: Uprev GT MAF What am I missing (uprev? Wideband sensors? Brake boost check valve? PCV modification?)
As far as uprev, do I need to purchase anything or will the tuning shop be able to handle that part? Do I need a remote tune so I can drive the car to the tuner or should I just have it towed.
Miscellaneous:
New bumper with better airflow to intercooler
Coilovers and adjustable arms if my engine doesn’t blow up on the dyno.
A little history on the car for those interested. I purchased the car new in 2003, it was the first car I purchased myself. I enjoyed daily driving the car for about 15 years and just performed regular maintenance. It has about 145k miles on the odometer. I started burning through about 1qt of oil for every 1k miles so I decided to have some fun with it. I removed the engine and stripped it down to be sent to the builder. I’ve got the car put back together and am currently driving it around to address any issues. So far I've put 1k miles on the new motor and I'm ready for the next step. Here’s a picture of what we're working with…
Okay so I’ve got my car back together after having my engine built and I’m breaking it in. In the meantime, I’m looking for suggestions/confirmation on how to get the most of my newly built engine by adding a supercharger. The block is supposed to be good for 650whp and I want to get the most out of it without going over the edge (looks like I don’t have to worry about that with a supercharger setup). My goal is to have a fun car to drive and give ride-alongs. It won’t be my daily driver, but I want it to be a solid platform and somewhat reliable.
Here’s what I am currently running:
04 G35 Coupe 6MT (vq35de)
Forged rods/pistons (8.8:1 Compression Ratio Wiseco/Eagle)
ARP L19 head studs
HR Head gaskets w/ Cooling Modification
Rev-up oil pump
Z1 Lightweight flywheel/performance unsprung clutch (supposed to be good for ~500ft/lbs)
19x11 wheels with 275 tires in the back
All new maintenance items (Timing, Water Pump, Thermostat, Gaskets, etc.)
Here’s where I need suggestions/confirmation: Supercharger: I need help deciding between HKS and Vortech. At first I wanted to go HKS but Vortech seems like the more popular option, I can go either way. Pro’s Con’s? Pulley setup: I have no clue here. How do I decide what pulley to run for my overall setup? (Probably the 2.87 pulley for Vortech. HKS has sizes from 120 to 80mm) Injectors: Looking at DW 1000cc (should I go with a smaller size, prices aren’t that much different? (600cc, 750cc) Spark Plugs: One Step Colder - NGK PLFR6A-11 Cooling: Koyo G35 V-Core Upgraded Radiator (Will install oil cooler eventually if things don’t blow up on the dyno) Fuel system: Just a pump or do I need to run a return setup? Looking at Deatschwerks DW300 pump and CJM S0 Fuel System if needed
Do I need e85? 93 octane is easily available where I live and I’m running low compression, what would e85 gain me? Is it worth the trouble? Misc: Uprev GT MAF What am I missing (uprev? Wideband sensors? Brake boost check valve? PCV modification?)
As far as uprev, do I need to purchase anything or will the tuning shop be able to handle that part? Do I need a remote tune so I can drive the car to the tuner or should I just have it towed.
Miscellaneous:
New bumper with better airflow to intercooler
Coilovers and adjustable arms if my engine doesn’t blow up on the dyno.
A little history on the car for those interested. I purchased the car new in 2003, it was the first car I purchased myself. I enjoyed daily driving the car for about 15 years and just performed regular maintenance. It has about 145k miles on the odometer. I started burning through about 1qt of oil for every 1k miles so I decided to have some fun with it. I removed the engine and stripped it down to be sent to the builder. I’ve got the car put back together and am currently driving it around to address any issues. So far I've put 1k miles on the new motor and I'm ready for the next step. Here’s a picture of what we're working with…
Youre in good hands...if you have thick skin...
Go with Vortech ... many many people are running this with success versus only a few people are running the HKS with success. You'll have more all around support. Nothing wrong with the HKS though.
You only need 15 to 18psi of boost - so let OldmanZ and Conway (off the top of my head) let you guide you with the pulley - they are experts.
get 1000cc dont go any lower
yea, 1 step colder is good
Aftermarket radiator is a smart move, add an oil cooler sooner rather than later.
Get a return fuel system and you'll need more than a 300lph. Get a 450 or 525, they'll fit in the OEM fuel basket just the same.
You can run E85 but you'll need 25% more injector and 25% fuel system and you will definately need a better ECU than uprev. Just stick with 93 if you have consistent access to it.
Consider going standalone if you can afford it. You can run Uprev for 600hp pretty easy but a new/newer/current market standalone will serve you much better. Look into the Link G4+, Haltech Platinum (or Elite if you wanna go balla) or the AEM Infinity. You'll need a $500 to $1000 worth of modules and sensors to do this right.
A little bit of a saturday morning edit:
I dont know that I'd push eagle rods past 600hp. They are rated for more but they are a better suited NA rod than a FI rod. Not to say that you cant touch 650 with eagles - I'm sure people have but IMO they are not a great rod for big / bigger builds.
did you get any headwork / cams / valves done? or are they OEM heads/cams?
Nothing wrong with DW but also look into Injector Dynamics - both companies make good stuff.
Budget in $500 to $1000 for tuning and dyno time (often overlooked)
you got L19 headstud, your Eagles likely came with Pro2000 rod hardware, did you upgrade your main-studs?
If the engine is not back in the car and you can open the bottom end (upper oil pan) consider ARPs main stud kit and Dynosty's replacement girdle - one of weak points on the DE is the main journals / supporting girdle / hardware.
what bearings did you go with?
Great looking car and sounds like you've thoroughly enjoyed it - Welcome to the forum and if youre so inclined make a build thread to document your build and it'll be a place to get help and opinions .
So it looks like if I go with the bigger fuel pump I will need to upgrade the fuel wire harness to support the increase in power draw, is that correct? Any idea on what this would involve? Is there an upgraded harness kit available or do I have to manually modify the wiring and swap out a bigger fuse?
I'm not opposed to going with a stand-a-lone ECU but that will have to be stage 2. I don't want to bite off more than I can chew this first time around.
So it looks like if I go with the bigger fuel pump I will need to upgrade the fuel wire harness to support the increase in power draw, is that correct? Any idea on what this would involve? Is there an upgraded harness kit available or do I have to manually modify the wiring and swap out a bigger fuse?
I'm not opposed to going with a stand-a-lone ECU but that will have to be stage 2. I don't want to bite off more than I can chew this first time around.
Yea - You'd want to upgrade the wiring. It's not difficult at all (maybe a 6 out of 10) and it's maybe $20 to $30 in parts.
Search:
Aboodi DE Revup, built 875whp+ V7 YSi-B Trim
Colombo DE, Built 800whp+ V2 HD Ti-Trim, but is now Turbo
Meanz DE, Built
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Oldmanz350 DE Stock 578whp Sc-Trim ( you can PM Me )
Last edited by OldManZ350; 04-19-2020 at 11:22 AM.
I would add an oil cooler and a differential into the list. Do you have headers and cams? It would be easy to do those at this point.
I would strongly suggest to get an aftermarket ecu. I don't know if your ecu number supports live tuning with uprev, but mine didn't and it was a pain in the ***. Link G4+ is on a another level as is the Haltech (If you get a Link or Haltech ecu you don't need a uprev MAF sensor since it uses MAP). There is nothing to stop you from breaking your engine with Uprev if something goes wrong.
Fuel system: Just a pump or do I need to run a return setup?
Fuel return is needed at 650 whp.
Looking at Deatschwerks DW300 pump and CJM S0 Fuel System if needed
Do I need e85? 93 octane is easily available where I live and I’m running low compression, what would e85 gain me? Is it worth the trouble?
DW300 will run out of fuel at least with ethanol. DW products aren't necessary ethanol proof even though they say they are. I destroyed a set of ID injectors because of this.
I would get the CJM fuel return package with the fuel rails and everything. You will save time on the dyno without fueling issues.
The upside of E85 is that you won't get knock as easily and you can run higher compression. It will also give you more power since you can add more spark advance. But since you have a relatively low compression engine and if you are going with Vortech I wouldn't bother.
With ethanol you will need bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump and bigger fuel lines. I couldn't get my system to work without an external tank on E85. The 485 walbro didn't work too well inside the fuel basket. Old stock coils might become an issue with E85 too since it's harder to ignite.
My advice is to do it once and do it right. It will save a lot of money in the long run. If you want more than 400whp I would forget HKS. Vortech is much better if you primary target is power. If you value the lack of noise, easy installation and reliability HKS is a good unit.
ps. With uprev and 650whp you will spin the first three gears with a 275 section tire on regular Michelin PSS even with a proper diff. Again the aftermarket ecu gives you usable traction control unlike the stock unit.
I don't have headers or cams and the motor is already back in the car. I've put over 1k miles on it to break it in.
Sorry bealljk, I didn't see your updates. Yes, the main studs are ARP as well. The bearings are Moly coated Race Spec (builder didn't list brand). The block is a stage one block built by Import Parts Pro. The girdle is stock.
I won't rule out an ECU but that will have to be stage 2.
I'm hoping to get between 500-600whp but I'm still going to go with a return fuel setup like you mentioned.
Thanks for the info on the gas, I'll stick with 93 octane since i'm running low compression.
Spinning the wheels up to 3rd gears sounds fun and exactly what I'm looking for By proper diff, do you mean a diff with a lower ratio that will make my gears taller because the gears always felt too short while stock?
Okay so I"m getting ready to order the parts. While the car is driveable and before I start taking it apart is there any prep work I should have done? For example, should I drive it to an exhaust shop to have a bung put in for an AFR sensor, etc? Also, once I get all this installed, how can I start the car and test things out a little (leaks, etc.) before taking it to the tuner?
Here's the current list:
Vortech V-3 SCi Supercharger Tuner Kit (Is this the correct trim?)
2.81 Pulley
CJM 'S1' Fuel System - VQ35DE
ID1050X Injectors
Walbro HELLCAT 525 lph In Tank Fuel Pump E85 (Because Hellcat!)
I don't have headers or cams and the motor is already back in the car. I've put over 1k miles on it to break it in.
Sorry bealljk, I didn't see your updates. Yes, the main studs are ARP as well. The bearings are Moly coated Race Spec (builder didn't list brand). The block is a stage one block built by Import Parts Pro. The girdle is stock.
I won't rule out an ECU but that will have to be stage 2.
I'm hoping to get between 500-600whp but I'm still going to go with a return fuel setup like you mentioned.
Thanks for the info on the gas, I'll stick with 93 octane since i'm running low compression.
Spinning the wheels up to 3rd gears sounds fun and exactly what I'm looking for By proper diff, do you mean a diff with a lower ratio that will make my gears taller because the gears always felt too short while stock?
Okay so I"m getting ready to order the parts. While the car is driveable and before I start taking it apart is there any prep work I should have done? For example, should I drive it to an exhaust shop to have a bung put in for an AFR sensor, etc? Also, once I get all this installed, how can I start the car and test things out a little (leaks, etc.) before taking it to the tuner?
Here's the current list:
Vortech V-3 SCi Supercharger Tuner Kit (Is this the correct trim?)
2.81 Pulley
CJM 'S1' Fuel System - VQ35DE
ID1050X Injectors
Walbro HELLCAT 525 lph In Tank Fuel Pump E85 (Because Hellcat!)
Upgraded Fuel Wiring
One Step Colder - NGK PLFR6A-11 spark plugs
Uprev GT MAF for stock ECU
UpRev Osiris Standard Engine Management
Great update - any pictures / videos of the car?
Don't sweat headers or cams - neither will prevent you from making good power with your mods.
Awesome that you have the ARP head studs - assuming theyre L19 headstuds?
If you have 'race spec' bearings they are likely ACL, which are a perfectly fine brand/spec. Although that's the brand I had when I spun a bearing (wasn't the bearings fault) and that's what I put back in on my rebuild.
consider the dynosty girdle if your engine is rebuilt/refreshed down the road. Look at the OEM girdle of the HR and VHR engines, along with the JZ or LS and you'll see how blustered they are compared to our DE girdle.
The uprev will be perfectly fine for now and plenty of people are making 500-600hp with uprev. Between now and then research ECUs, prices, features, experiences, etc.
Even with 600hp I don't know that you'll be spinning your wheels in 3rd gear … and if you are then you have the wrong tires!
I'm not sure what you can do for prep / pre-tune work … but it's good that you're thinking about it. You'll probably want fresh oil & filter, new spark plugs, ensure your coolant system is correctly operating, bleed your breaks, flush your power steering. Make sure you have decent tires. It'd be wise to have a few extra sets of spark plugs to take to the dyno, have a few extra supercharger belts, ensure you have a fresh tank of gas, check your intake for vacuum leaks
Ask your tuner for a safe engine-break-in tune. I think it's wise to put 500 to 1000miles of low load, low to mid RPMs, before your tune - you will iron out many many issues that will halt a dyno tune and cost you your deposit.
You should be able to start the car without any tune, just don't let it run too long or drive it. It's going to run rich as hell and sound funny... but it'll run to check for fuel/oil leaks etc. I can give you the info of the guy doing the tuning on mine, if you need someone. He logged in remotely and setup everything for the first startup and data log. After that I was able to drive the car easy to 3k rpms for another log etc. I've encountered some little issues here and there. It was a good thing I didn't pay for dyno time and caught with a broken car.
I wouldn't run the car but 3 to 5 seconds without the right tune … you're asking for problems. And for how easy it is for a remote base-map setup(like what Thirsty is saying) and stupid-safe tune, it's just not worth messing anything up …
Im pushing my car a little harder and higher than 3k rpms but I have a better-than-safe ignition timing map to use and I've been dialing in my fuel setup every time I take the car out.
Agreed. As an FI noob I can say there's a definite problem somewhere. Vortech advertises the V3 SCI with 420 as a starting point on a stock VQ35.
Even as complex as supercharging sounds, the fundamentals are the same as NA. Anything that limits air flow (what intercooler are you running? ) fuel (I'm on ID 1250s @ 470hp) and spark (I'm on UpRev via Z1) will limit potential. I glanced over the build sheet, did you reduce your compression?
93 or E85?
5 or 6 psi of boost will make 360hp and be perfectly normal ... but if you were hitting 12psi / 15psi / 18psi than something is wrong.
Aaron - what did you end up doing / summarize your fuel setup? what pump? what lines? return system? fuel pressure set? no kinks in the hose (in the basket)?
do you have access to your tune? what are your ignition timing values (especially at redline)?
Do you have the boost graph and afr graph to go along with that?
The tuner says that AFR is available but boost reference is not. I'll see what data I can get.
Originally Posted by jhc
Agreed. As an FI noob I can say there's a definite problem somewhere. Vortech advertises the V3 SCI with 420 as a starting point on a stock VQ35.
Even as complex as supercharging sounds, the fundamentals are the same as NA. Anything that limits air flow (what intercooler are you running? ) fuel (I'm on ID 1250s @ 470hp) and spark (I'm on UpRev via Z1) will limit potential. I glanced over the build sheet, did you reduce your compression?
93 or E85?
I'll let the experts chime in gl!
Yes, that's why I thought it was low. I'm running the stock vortech intercooler that came with the kit. Fuel: DeatschWerks 1000cc, CJM S1 return with 525lph pump on 93 octane. Compression is reduced to 8.8:1. I'm a FI noob as well so I'm relying on you all and my tuner to help me out and learning along the way. I just don't want to leave anything on the table and it sounds like I am.
Originally Posted by bealljk
Big question is how much boost?
5 or 6 psi of boost will make 360hp and be perfectly normal ... but if you were hitting 12psi / 15psi / 18psi than something is wrong.
Aaron - what did you end up doing / summarize your fuel setup? what pump? what lines? return system? fuel pressure set? no kinks in the hose (in the basket)?
do you have access to your tune? what are your ignition timing values (especially at redline)?
what did your tuner say?
Here is my final list:
Import Parts Pro Stage 1 Long Block
Forged rods/pistons (8.8:1 Compression Ratio Wiseco/Eagle)
I left the Aeromotive regulator set to it's stock value which I believe was around 50psi in hopes that the tuner would adjust as they saw fit. I didn't notice any kinks in the fuel lines when I installed them, the only thing I can think of is since the pump is a lot larger, I used the stock fuel filter bag and it's probably close to bottoming out on the fuel tank since the basket compresses. It's not hitting and it seems like the filter had some protection to prevent it from closing completely. If there was a bottleneck in the fuel system, how would I detect that? Wouldn't the injector duty cycle be affected and/or the fuel pressure drop? I will try to get more information from the tuner now that I have a better idea on what to ask for. The tuner recommended a smaller pulley but I'm already running with the 2.87.
Originally Posted by OldManZ350
Please tell me your setup for this Dyno......
Also need a Boost Log as well, if you have one.
Please add any motor pic's you have
YES, it is very low, but you have 8.8cr.
I added the setup above. The tuner said that boost reference is not available but the dyno does have AFR. I asked what the max boost was and I'll see what they say. Here's a pic while on the dyno.
Do you have any of the logs from when you was dyno'd. Using the air flow across the MAF can be a rough guestimation of boost. It will also give you things like IAT's, Timing, RPM's, all the solid info.
04-17-2020, 01:26 PM
Built Engine, Need Supercharger Setup Help
By proper diff, do you mean a diff with a lower ratio that will make my gears taller because the gears always felt too short while stock?
