jak

It is not only the structural support. The bigger issue is relocating the air bag sensors and messing with that system. As I had said in an earlier post that there have been rumors of several deaths due to the structural support being removed and the air bags not going off. You can get killed at 40mph which is a fairly low speed.

Once you start talking custom ICs the price tag starts going north of the PE kit.

I'm in the same spot as alpine. I like turbo but if my only choice is PE or a modified greddy for more cost than PE, I would have to lean towards SC for half the money. I don't believe a novice driver such as myself would have much of a problem with either FI system but I do like the rush you get with a turbo when they kick in.

Jeff

BrianLG35C

iTrader: (2)

No of course I'm not planning on running into anyone but I can't control the other driver. Even though it's an aluminum support, it should contribute to lessening the impact in any collision.

UsafaRice

I think one thing that's being overlooked in the "lag" discussion is that most people with the GReddy kits are running stock compression ratio. This allows more forceful exhaust gases at all rpm points to spool the turbos. I haven't seen any dyno charts for people with lower compression ratio, but it is my belief that the biggest contributor for lag is heavy turbines + low power NA. The Z makes a lot of power off boost, so the turbos are just a nice add-on.

Here's a chart from TwinTurbo.net that shows what I would call lag.

BrianLG35C

iTrader: (2)

Rumors with the GReddy installed?? Where did you read these?

UsafaRice

The chart

jak

It is not widely known but I think I read that on a thread somewhere and discounted it. But I heard it again from a Greddy installer just recently so I'm inclined to believe that there may be some truth to the story.

Jeff

UsafaRice

And I should qualify lag here as not making all the power you could/want. If I have 600 WHP on tap, I'm gonna want some of it available a little lower.

Look at how linear this 350Z's chart is. It's at 9psi. I hope balanced motorsports doesn't mind...

PoWeRtRiP

one guy died and he ran into a telephone pole at speeds in excess of 80mph, it might have contributed but he was gonna get hurt bad even with a tiny aluminum support. i agree with you guys dont get me wrong, but this support will not save your life. what i need to point out is most frontal impacts are caused by driver error, you run into someone or something.if someone hits you its almost always side or rear impact thats what i meant in my post. so if you are a good driver who cares. if you have seen this support youll know what i mean its a 3" by 1.5" bar of aluminum which is about 10 lbs that crosses the entire bumper. its not much in a high speed crash

BrianLG35C

iTrader: (2)

I understand what you're saying. Are there any other turbos that don't require this structural mod?

UsafaRice

I asked Bini2 and he says maybe 15 lbs instead .

Anyway, you're right mostly, but some multiple car pileups will involve you getting rear-ended. I got shoved all the way under a Jeep Cherokee while I was in a Neon because some old lady in her Mercedes "panzerwagon" didn't bother to brake when I did. Then again, the bumper didn't really help as the Jeep just rolled up my hood and windshield...

PoWeRtRiP

the greddy intercooler is the only one that requires removal. any other tt kit will not need to remove the support, or a diff intercooler with the greddy will not need removal

SQUILL

that looks like a single giant turbo setup maybe a supra??

Setup up for drag racing .... looks like that car would be a little touchy on the steet but fun none the less.

Guys the greddy kit is the first turbo kit out there and sorry to say its a little "thrown together" the intercooler was adapted to the 350z thus requiring the removal of the front bumper bar.

Now if you specifically design an intercooler for the 350z then you dont need to remove the bar.

Dont get me wrong the Greddy kit is still a superior method of F/I but since I'm waiting till winter to install my TT kit Hopefully the APS kit ANd the JWT kit will be ready to go and it looks like both companies are spending alot of time with their kits getting it right .... I doubt either kit will require removing the bumper bar.

I would still go with the greddy kit if i wanted F/I right now!

As far as custom intercooler is concerned i bet you could find an existing intercooler with the right dimensions to fit without removing the bumper bar then all you need is the pluming which may not cost as much as we think i wish i knew how much it would be but lets say the intercooler core is 1000 bucks and it cost another 500-1000 bucks for custom plumbing who knows maybe it wouldnt cost that much more idont know??? Skidazzle has a custom turbo kit ...anybody know if he has posted anything about the cost or fabricaion of his intercooler setup??

UsafaRice

Negative, it's a 300ZX TT with a pair of TD05-18g's. And you're right about touchy, could you imagine being in a corner with about 400 HP, then accidently open the throttle a little more and get 200 HP more? Bye-bye.

Good info on the intercooler stuff.

PoWeRtRiP

if you really want to go that kind of custom i can make you a i/c out of two old volvo i/c cores welded together and aluminum piping for about $200 polish it up and voila. but this will not flow anywhere near as good as the greddy. the prob with the plumbing is apparently it is very difficult to get the pipes off the i/c around the bend, it required mods to make it past, ask gq626 or someone with the kit, all my info is second hand

PoWeRtRiP

you guys do know that those are the same turboes the greddy kit uses right? im not sure if its the exact same trim but the same td-05 18g. the vqs extra .5 liters and high compression are why it spools faster. but keep in mind that the car also likely runs about 18psi, hence the steep incline on boost. if it were set to 7 like us it would not be as steep. the lag is exaggerated due to the differences in psi

UsafaRice

Oh yeah, I know, that's why I have the chart! Plus compressor flow maps, plus endless emails and PMs to Jason at Performance Nissan and Nathan about the Nismo heads, etc...

The boost does have a ridiculous take-off, but I've looked at some 350Z Gredddy charts as well. With the early spool from the VQ, the engine will be producing more exhaust earlier and could achieve those boost levels a lot faster. I'd also guess that kind of power needs about 22+ psi- for the 300.

Sanderman

Sorry man, I didn't mean to jump down your throat. It's just that these discussions don't happen in a vacuum. SQUILL is saying there is NO lag with turbos. The problem with discussions like this and assertions like his is that "Everyone knows there is lag in turbos, twin or not, smaller or not, tuned or not. " is NOT true.

There are lots of newbies trying to decide what to do who have never driven a turbo or SC car who read his zero lag posts and believe them. Who don't realize you will feel this lag to some degree or another every time you drive the car and that you will have to drive around it. Now it's not a huge thing. I drove twin turbos for 11 years and lived with it. But you know what? On the street the SCs instant response form most any rev is a lot more fun to me. Now if I wanted to drag or plan a bit ahead everytime I wanted to launch the car or juice the gas that would be fine. I have to admit though it's very nice to not have to.

Just so everyone understands - I could happily own a Greddy set-up and enjoy it. But there are pluses and minuses to everything and to assume everyone should want what you do is a mistake at best or arrogance at worst. (And I'm not steering this comment at you, alpine)

peace,

joe

Bini2

iTrader: (2)

Make sure that you consider the "hidden" costs involved with the Greddy. For one, taking your cats off takes twice as long due to the wastegates. Secondly, Transmission removal (at least for my dealer) was 8 hours +. If you plan on having someone else perform this labor, you need to consider these things and plan accordingly. (Hint: do clutch, cats, and flywheel before or during your TT install)


I am not trying to scare you away, just making sure that you are aware. I love my TT.

alpine

I do not have the information as to excatly what is being compromised, and from you are explaining here it does NOT sound like a "real" issue.

Do you/anyone have any "facts" on what/where is being removed?

Of course any frontal impact is going to cause the damage you have described, and so I would agree with the "who cares" statement if in fact it is not "considerable" structural loss.

I forget where it came from, but in a prior post, in this thread, someone said "there have been rumors of deaths with the greddy kit installed due to structural changes".

The first thing here is they said it was rumored, and of course we don't know what they were doing that caused this, if you wrapped your car around a telephone poll with 350RWHP and 300+TRQ at any speed worth mentioning, you're probably going to die with or without this support bar.

I don't care what you drive, if you smack into a solid object at high speed, the results are going to be diasasterous, and potentially fatal. That is a risk we all take everyday whether we are sporting, or just out for a "sunday cruise".

Someone also mentioned something about "driving skills" with Turbo VS. SC. What is the difference as far as how/why the power/speed gets there?

If you don't know how to drive, under performance conditions, and have no respect for basic laws of physics, then WHOEVER the interested party is shouldn't be interested in additional performance.

There are some people out there that just want to go fast and straight, I suppose that doesn't require too much more driving skills.

But for the people that are in that boat, and are not professional drag strip racers, the roads out there are not straight and driving conditions and environmental variables are not ideal for fast/straight driving.

damn it... gotta get back to work..

alpine

Not scared.

I am not aware of the details involved in TT install, I just know it's going to cost 3k. I already had my transreplaced, and while that was being done, I got the JWT flywheel and Nismo clutch.

I supposed I should do cats during the TT install though.