Intercooler Sprayer!
05-31-2004, 06:12 AM
#42
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Originally posted by UsafaRice
Didn't say ratio. Read first if you're gonna bash me please. It's the mixture in the chamber. Read about Aquamist anywhere. The water is vaporizing in the intake tract. It cools the air like sweating cools your body. And it limits the speed of the flame wave front travel. It effectively increases the octane rating of the gasoline used.
Didn't say only a bottle did either. Again, I didn't mean to get you upset about this because we could have a very good conversation. Please respond to what I'm saying though.
I'm installing a NOS system in my car currently. My bottle says very clearly that it weighs 14.75 lbs empty and 24.75 lb full. Add brackets, a 1.5 lb solenoid (I have 2 of course), the control wiring, the lines to carry the nitrous or CO2 and that sprayer bar and you tell me how close my guess is.
We have a different use intended here. Spraying for a 1/4 mile is a lot different than spraying for a road race. If you're running 13 second 1/4s, then you've got 4.5 minutes of spraying. Aquamist fed from the washer fluid bottle will last a gas tank worth. And it isn't 24/7, that's gonna kill your car if you're running that much. It works for whenever you have it programmed to spray. I sure hope it won't boil or else your windshield washer fluid is gonna be boiling all the time as well!
Since you decided to call me names instead of looking it up, we have people running ~350 WHP at 5-6 psi and people making 400-450 WHP at 8-10 psi. While a cooler intake temp gets you that "1% for every 10 degrees" I've heard, a huge intercooler is going to be pretty efficient to start with. Make your 50 WHP in a Civic - I'll take the 50 to 100 all the time in a 350Z.
And how did I become your son? Are you really that old? If you'd like to talk physics, aerodynamics, Japanese, piloting, or any computer science, I have those basics down. I've taken a few classes in "rocket science" as well, so I'll vouch that you don't need it either. I also have an idea of how these "car" things work too.
I did this for a guy a while back, but I can help you figure out Aquamist. If you can find this webpage, you can find out everything...
Didn't say ratio. Read first if you're gonna bash me please. It's the mixture in the chamber. Read about Aquamist anywhere. The water is vaporizing in the intake tract. It cools the air like sweating cools your body. And it limits the speed of the flame wave front travel. It effectively increases the octane rating of the gasoline used.
Didn't say only a bottle did either. Again, I didn't mean to get you upset about this because we could have a very good conversation. Please respond to what I'm saying though.
I'm installing a NOS system in my car currently. My bottle says very clearly that it weighs 14.75 lbs empty and 24.75 lb full. Add brackets, a 1.5 lb solenoid (I have 2 of course), the control wiring, the lines to carry the nitrous or CO2 and that sprayer bar and you tell me how close my guess is.
We have a different use intended here. Spraying for a 1/4 mile is a lot different than spraying for a road race. If you're running 13 second 1/4s, then you've got 4.5 minutes of spraying. Aquamist fed from the washer fluid bottle will last a gas tank worth. And it isn't 24/7, that's gonna kill your car if you're running that much. It works for whenever you have it programmed to spray. I sure hope it won't boil or else your windshield washer fluid is gonna be boiling all the time as well!
Since you decided to call me names instead of looking it up, we have people running ~350 WHP at 5-6 psi and people making 400-450 WHP at 8-10 psi. While a cooler intake temp gets you that "1% for every 10 degrees" I've heard, a huge intercooler is going to be pretty efficient to start with. Make your 50 WHP in a Civic - I'll take the 50 to 100 all the time in a 350Z.
And how did I become your son? Are you really that old? If you'd like to talk physics, aerodynamics, Japanese, piloting, or any computer science, I have those basics down. I've taken a few classes in "rocket science" as well, so I'll vouch that you don't need it either. I also have an idea of how these "car" things work too.
I did this for a guy a while back, but I can help you figure out Aquamist. If you can find this webpage, you can find out everything...
It's interesting reading both sides. I don't know enough about this but it's definately interesting. Going to be reading up on this. Sounds like it's well worth it.
05-31-2004, 10:46 PM
#43
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im going to have to go with wicked4u2c here. i have the nitrous express n-tercooler on my car and i could go autocross for 2 hours and still have 50% left on the bottle. you could spray it for a good 10seconds and your intake temp will last about a 15-30minutes depending on the weather outside. i havent really hard of this aquamist, do they have a website? seems interesting "but what's cooler than being cool.... ICE COLD!" sorry had to throw that line from OUTKAST 
Yeah but i dont think you can beat the elements of being frozen over just cold water but i would like to learn more
Yeah but i dont think you can beat the elements of being frozen over just cold water but i would like to learn more
05-31-2004, 11:13 PM
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you guys are arguing two completely different setups..
i've seen good results on both setups in person.. most of the aquamist systems i've seen being used on superchargers though..
i do agree with Wicked4u2c and Red6 on the effectiveness of the NX intercooler kit.. i'd be basically using the kit for dragging so it would fit my needs perfectly.. just my 2 cents
i've seen good results on both setups in person.. most of the aquamist systems i've seen being used on superchargers though..
i do agree with Wicked4u2c and Red6 on the effectiveness of the NX intercooler kit.. i'd be basically using the kit for dragging so it would fit my needs perfectly.. just my 2 cents
05-31-2004, 11:47 PM
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LOL if you think I got OW3NEd but a guy who awnsered these questions from the first thread...
1) Extra weight on the front end of the car
2) Nitrous could get sucked into the intake and make the car run lean
3) Use water, just wire it up to the sprayer for the rear windshield or something simple like that. It will be way safer. You're not going to be N20ing your IC on a road race because of #2 so a bag of ice for the IC at the strip is way easier/cheaper than nitrous.
Than you got OW3ned In believing eveyrthing he had to say...
Oh and MR ROCKET SCIENCE WIZARD, I think you got a F!! because you don't even know how things work read post above... NITROUS GETTING SUCKED into the INTAKE LOL!!!!!!!! Oh even my dad laughed with that one, do you even know how an INTERCOOLER WORKS?? and you totally contradict yourself from post to post I dont have time to argue with here and point out how you say one thing than you change it around, also since your so concenred about "weight" than installing a TURBOCHARGER will be pointless because it adds over 100lbs of weight in THE FRONT OF THE CAR. Lets see...
TURBO=100+lbs aprox Horsepower 100
N20 Cooler 30lbs(according to ROCKETMAN even though you could use a mini shot 2lb bottle) aprox horsepower 50+
Geez, if were going to complain about weight than TURBO would sure be out of the question because comparing weight per horsepower rating than that would be out of the question but im sure you wouldn't know anything about that...
OH BTW I did use my n20 cooler on the track road racing and guess what Genius? it didn't get sucked into the intake WOW as that is almost impossible for it to happen because even if you have a "hole" per say in your intercooler the mist of the spray is so light that by the time it reaches your intake it would have virtually disapated. Just ask anyone who uses nitrous? If you run a baby shot say 30? you can barely feel it and thats direct into the intake system, say you had a hole and somehow someway it got it which it wouldn't because you are already under "boost" and the pressure would blow it out but say it does go in it would be so gentle and wouldn't harm because the jet size...
Anyhow im done here, go get your bag of ice and take it to the track.
Oh and since you im just quoting you here.. "I've taken a few classes in "rocket science" as well, so I'll vouch that you don't need it either. I also have an idea of how these "car" things work too.
Its apparent you DONT know how these car things work so stick to rocket science please... Oh and if you do decide TO LEARN... Get the same vehicle say a 300zx or 350zTT and use both N-Tercooler Dyno test that and then your aquamist, than dyno that, than go to your liquor store and use a bag of ice, use all the methods than tell me which one makes more POWER..? Oh if you want also equate that to weight per horsepower ratio than come back to this board with those DYNO graphs and continue talking your $hit.. Until then
SAYONARA!!!
1) Extra weight on the front end of the car
2) Nitrous could get sucked into the intake and make the car run lean
3) Use water, just wire it up to the sprayer for the rear windshield or something simple like that. It will be way safer. You're not going to be N20ing your IC on a road race because of #2 so a bag of ice for the IC at the strip is way easier/cheaper than nitrous.
Than you got OW3ned In believing eveyrthing he had to say...
Oh and MR ROCKET SCIENCE WIZARD, I think you got a F!! because you don't even know how things work read post above... NITROUS GETTING SUCKED into the INTAKE LOL!!!!!!!! Oh even my dad laughed with that one, do you even know how an INTERCOOLER WORKS?? and you totally contradict yourself from post to post I dont have time to argue with here and point out how you say one thing than you change it around, also since your so concenred about "weight" than installing a TURBOCHARGER will be pointless because it adds over 100lbs of weight in THE FRONT OF THE CAR. Lets see...
TURBO=100+lbs aprox Horsepower 100
N20 Cooler 30lbs(according to ROCKETMAN even though you could use a mini shot 2lb bottle) aprox horsepower 50+
Geez, if were going to complain about weight than TURBO would sure be out of the question because comparing weight per horsepower rating than that would be out of the question but im sure you wouldn't know anything about that...
OH BTW I did use my n20 cooler on the track road racing and guess what Genius? it didn't get sucked into the intake WOW as that is almost impossible for it to happen because even if you have a "hole" per say in your intercooler the mist of the spray is so light that by the time it reaches your intake it would have virtually disapated. Just ask anyone who uses nitrous? If you run a baby shot say 30? you can barely feel it and thats direct into the intake system, say you had a hole and somehow someway it got it which it wouldn't because you are already under "boost" and the pressure would blow it out but say it does go in it would be so gentle and wouldn't harm because the jet size...
Anyhow im done here, go get your bag of ice and take it to the track.
Oh and since you im just quoting you here.. "I've taken a few classes in "rocket science" as well, so I'll vouch that you don't need it either. I also have an idea of how these "car" things work too.
Its apparent you DONT know how these car things work so stick to rocket science please... Oh and if you do decide TO LEARN... Get the same vehicle say a 300zx or 350zTT and use both N-Tercooler Dyno test that and then your aquamist, than dyno that, than go to your liquor store and use a bag of ice, use all the methods than tell me which one makes more POWER..? Oh if you want also equate that to weight per horsepower ratio than come back to this board with those DYNO graphs and continue talking your $hit.. Until then
SAYONARA!!!
06-01-2004, 02:53 PM
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Charge Cooling
For what it's worth I've run "water injection" aka "Aquamist" in a supercharged pickup for over 25k miles in everyday driving and occasional Wed night drags. What it does provide is the ability to
run another +3psi (total of 10psi) on crappy 91 pump gas. This correlates to >30rwhp on this app. With the OEM fluid tank, I only need to top off with clean (filtered) water every ~2 fillups.
A CO2 sprayer was not an option since the setup is "intercooler-less". But having to fill a CO2 or N2O tank every 2 weeks would suck. After I add TTs to my G , WI will be a definite consideration.
run another +3psi (total of 10psi) on crappy 91 pump gas. This correlates to >30rwhp on this app. With the OEM fluid tank, I only need to top off with clean (filtered) water every ~2 fillups.
A CO2 sprayer was not an option since the setup is "intercooler-less". But having to fill a CO2 or N2O tank every 2 weeks would suck. After I add TTs to my G , WI will be a definite consideration.
06-03-2004, 10:57 PM
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Oooh, looks like I hit a nerve. What an internet tough guy! I sure hope you're not still living with your dad too. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you're ending up on the immature side of the spectrum.
I do know how an intercooler works. It is in the intake path between some form of forced induction compressor and the intake manifold. It cools the intake charge with either liquid or ambient air to remove heat added in compressing the air and/or heat added through thermal inefficiencies in the forced induction system. While the intercooler makes the charge denser through the cooling, it does create a pressure drop across the core and adds some lag to the system from the extra tubing added. However, in most cases, the added power far outweighs the lag or pressure drop.
Is that enough, do you need more? And I think you're refering to grades I would have made in aerodynamics instead of rocket science. I would not be concerned at all with N2O getting into the IC through a hole. I am making reference to a concern that someone had when his sprayer's mist got pulled into the filter. That would be why I said it "could" happen if you set up your system wrong, in effect making the sprayer a dry shot without the fuel increase. And since the local internet badass will probably read that wrong, the "you" above does not refer to you. It is to anyone who sets up some system.
You seemed to have gotten really upset about that weight comment when you found out you were wrong. "According to rocketman." Wow. A little insecure there? I understand power to weight very well- that's why the guys at Powerhouse Amuse are welding me a titanium exhaust right now.
Have you gotten 50 HP out of this system on the Z yet? That would be great. But I can see you haven't. Also, I'm pretty sure someone with a turbo that makes 400WHP from a stock of 225-245WHP is making a bit more than 100. And you should look for some posts from Squill about the guys in Denver making a whole lot more than that.
I kinda lost you here, just like your post also lost its coherency (the little that it had). I think what you want me to do is go buy a lot of parts for my car, install them, and then test them. While I'm sure the board would benefit from the knowledge, I'm not really offering my car up for testing, sorry. I also think that the $hit in this thread is coming from you sir. I see the sayonara at the bottom of your post and I hope that means you're done talking, but a funny feeling tells me you aren't.
If anyone else has questions, please ask them. Sorry for the long post. As for you Wicked, I'll leave you alone now so you can calm down. And I'd ask that you post your N-tercooler dyno charts for the 350Z as well. It will surely help out.
I do know how an intercooler works. It is in the intake path between some form of forced induction compressor and the intake manifold. It cools the intake charge with either liquid or ambient air to remove heat added in compressing the air and/or heat added through thermal inefficiencies in the forced induction system. While the intercooler makes the charge denser through the cooling, it does create a pressure drop across the core and adds some lag to the system from the extra tubing added. However, in most cases, the added power far outweighs the lag or pressure drop.
Is that enough, do you need more? And I think you're refering to grades I would have made in aerodynamics instead of rocket science. I would not be concerned at all with N2O getting into the IC through a hole. I am making reference to a concern that someone had when his sprayer's mist got pulled into the filter. That would be why I said it "could" happen if you set up your system wrong, in effect making the sprayer a dry shot without the fuel increase. And since the local internet badass will probably read that wrong, the "you" above does not refer to you. It is to anyone who sets up some system.
You seemed to have gotten really upset about that weight comment when you found out you were wrong. "According to rocketman." Wow. A little insecure there? I understand power to weight very well- that's why the guys at Powerhouse Amuse are welding me a titanium exhaust right now.
Have you gotten 50 HP out of this system on the Z yet? That would be great. But I can see you haven't. Also, I'm pretty sure someone with a turbo that makes 400WHP from a stock of 225-245WHP is making a bit more than 100. And you should look for some posts from Squill about the guys in Denver making a whole lot more than that.
Originally posted by Wicked4u2c
Oh and since you im just quoting you here.. "I've taken a few classes in "rocket science" as well, so I'll vouch that you don't need it either. I also have an idea of how these "car" things work too.
Its apparent you DONT know how these car things work so stick to rocket science please... Oh and if you do decide TO LEARN... Get the same vehicle say a 300zx or 350zTT and use both N-Tercooler Dyno test that and then your aquamist, than dyno that, than go to your liquor store and use a bag of ice, use all the methods than tell me which one makes more POWER..? Oh if you want also equate that to weight per horsepower ratio than come back to this board with those DYNO graphs and continue talking your $hit.. Until then
SAYONARA!!!
Oh and since you im just quoting you here.. "I've taken a few classes in "rocket science" as well, so I'll vouch that you don't need it either. I also have an idea of how these "car" things work too.
Its apparent you DONT know how these car things work so stick to rocket science please... Oh and if you do decide TO LEARN... Get the same vehicle say a 300zx or 350zTT and use both N-Tercooler Dyno test that and then your aquamist, than dyno that, than go to your liquor store and use a bag of ice, use all the methods than tell me which one makes more POWER..? Oh if you want also equate that to weight per horsepower ratio than come back to this board with those DYNO graphs and continue talking your $hit.. Until then
SAYONARA!!!
If anyone else has questions, please ask them. Sorry for the long post. As for you Wicked, I'll leave you alone now so you can calm down. And I'd ask that you post your N-tercooler dyno charts for the 350Z as well. It will surely help out.
06-04-2004, 01:31 PM
#50
Holy shiite...what the heck happened to this thread. Man..another terrific educational experience...once again deterorated into a flame fest.
But I was able to glean a few key points in between the barbs.
Seriisouly, I think everyone should read up on the Aquamist system. It really does work, and the more I learn about it, the more I want to try it...especially those challened with ***** 91 octane fuel. One washer fluid container worth of water will last at least a full tank of gas for most road driving...and it can be triggered to only work at WOT or whatever. I like it! Totally transarent. And I still feel the C02 FMIC sprayer has some limitations for general purpose driving.
But I was able to glean a few key points in between the barbs.
Seriisouly, I think everyone should read up on the Aquamist system. It really does work, and the more I learn about it, the more I want to try it...especially those challened with ***** 91 octane fuel. One washer fluid container worth of water will last at least a full tank of gas for most road driving...and it can be triggered to only work at WOT or whatever. I like it! Totally transarent. And I still feel the C02 FMIC sprayer has some limitations for general purpose driving.
06-04-2004, 03:11 PM
#51
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Water injection
With respect to water injection (which I use on my SC'd pickup),
The biggest challenge was tuning to get the right amount of spray. Selecting the correct nozzle tends to be trial and error , but once someone determines the correct jetting it should be easily transferred from one Z/G with FI to another. I currently use a simple 2 input arrangement. Above 3psi and ~3700rpm , my jet sprays full capacity. However; Aquamist does offer a more ellegant solution. They offer a device which when tapped onto one of the injector harnesses will track the injector duty cycle, so with a psi switch and the injector "follower" the water delivery will track fuel delivery (which is the ideal). The nozzel is usually placed just before the TB and after the MAF. Misting water into the MAF would be bad.
One caveat of WI , is in a <32F conditions you "need" to mix methanol (or equivalent) with the water to prevent freezing. Since I live in NorCal, this is a rare occurence and a 5 gallon jug of methanol is still only 1/2 used after 25k miles. The water + Methonal is even safe to clean your windshield on occasion.
Note for those hard core drag racers , the FMIC Co2 etc sprayer can be used in "conjunction" with WI, since their modes of cooling are complimentary processes.
The biggest challenge was tuning to get the right amount of spray. Selecting the correct nozzle tends to be trial and error , but once someone determines the correct jetting it should be easily transferred from one Z/G with FI to another. I currently use a simple 2 input arrangement. Above 3psi and ~3700rpm , my jet sprays full capacity. However; Aquamist does offer a more ellegant solution. They offer a device which when tapped onto one of the injector harnesses will track the injector duty cycle, so with a psi switch and the injector "follower" the water delivery will track fuel delivery (which is the ideal). The nozzel is usually placed just before the TB and after the MAF. Misting water into the MAF would be bad.
One caveat of WI , is in a <32F conditions you "need" to mix methanol (or equivalent) with the water to prevent freezing. Since I live in NorCal, this is a rare occurence and a 5 gallon jug of methanol is still only 1/2 used after 25k miles. The water + Methonal is even safe to clean your windshield on occasion.
Note for those hard core drag racers , the FMIC Co2 etc sprayer can be used in "conjunction" with WI, since their modes of cooling are complimentary processes.
06-04-2004, 11:19 PM
#52
my attempt to make my own intercooler sprayer has taken its first step-
i went to costco, picked up a Misty Mate, air atomizer, and i'm gonna route the water line through the firewall and toward the intercooler..
picts soon.. hehe. cheap and easy to refil-.. they claim 30* F change in normal ambient temps .. so we'll see how much it can affect air temp with mixed with 50% alcohol, 50% water mixture and sprayed toward the IC ..
worth a shot eh?
i went to costco, picked up a Misty Mate, air atomizer, and i'm gonna route the water line through the firewall and toward the intercooler..
picts soon.. hehe. cheap and easy to refil-.. they claim 30* F change in normal ambient temps .. so we'll see how much it can affect air temp with mixed with 50% alcohol, 50% water mixture and sprayed toward the IC ..
worth a shot eh?
06-05-2004, 01:39 PM
#54
Wow...times must be tough.
So what is the Misty Mate? Is that one of those outdoor mister thingys I see used at restaurants on the outdoor patios during a hot summer day? I cant wait to see this in actions!
Also, what is the going price for a CO2 Sprayer...complete.
So what is the Misty Mate? Is that one of those outdoor mister thingys I see used at restaurants on the outdoor patios during a hot summer day? I cant wait to see this in actions!
Also, what is the going price for a CO2 Sprayer...complete.
Originally posted by Chebosto
my attempt to make my own intercooler sprayer has taken its first step-
i went to costco, picked up a Misty Mate, air atomizer, and i'm gonna route the water line through the firewall and toward the intercooler..
picts soon.. hehe. cheap and easy to refil-.. they claim 30* F change in normal ambient temps .. so we'll see how much it can affect air temp with mixed with 50% alcohol, 50% water mixture and sprayed toward the IC ..
worth a shot eh?
my attempt to make my own intercooler sprayer has taken its first step-
i went to costco, picked up a Misty Mate, air atomizer, and i'm gonna route the water line through the firewall and toward the intercooler..
picts soon.. hehe. cheap and easy to refil-.. they claim 30* F change in normal ambient temps .. so we'll see how much it can affect air temp with mixed with 50% alcohol, 50% water mixture and sprayed toward the IC ..
worth a shot eh?
06-07-2004, 08:57 PM
#55
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rofl.. i have two of those misty mates.. maybe ill just tape it to the top of my inside of my bodykit
misty mates are misters that are attached to bottles that spray water portable version of the restraunt ones..
misty mates are misters that are attached to bottles that spray water
portable version of the restraunt ones..
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