zimbo

iTrader: (4)

Hmmm. Something's fishy here. Using that calculator, a Vortech owner with a 9lb pulley and a raised rev limit (ie. what Grubbs has been doing) would exceed the 53000 max rpm.

What happens then?

--Steve

Forced

I believe we can spin the SC-Trim to 60K with no problems, but we had to put a limit on the bearings. We can make a heavy duty version of the SC-Trim with heavy duty bearings if I get enough demand for it. Going to the 7100 rpm and changing the serpentine pulley on the jackshaft to 3.12 will put the blower at 53,800. I asked one of our engineers and he said it would perform great. Anything more than that may require some heavy duty bearings.

PoWeRtRiP

thats the one thing that has kept me away from the sc is the ability to make more power on down the road. i know i would like to see a kit that can pull 15-20 psi, and about 500whp much like a turbo. that would definitely sell me on a sc, i dont like going through the hassle of a turbo install which is much harder both to install and maintain.

Forced

The SC-Trim is a cut down version of the S-Trim. I am waiting for someone to run the gambit with their car. ie, internals, up the rev-limiter, intake, the works. Then we can see if the SC-Trim can provide the air flow necessary. If not, we will most likely go to an S-Trim. When we did our compressor match on the Z motor, we came out with the SC-Trim being the best. Our engineers are hesitant to go to an S-Trim on a stock car because it was not a good match. Even with raising the limiter and a pulley change they feel that the SC-Trim is the best.

whosdady

iTrader: (6)

Prior to this you said 50,000 rpm was the max efficient impeller speed and that 53,000 was the absolute max impeller speed... How did this change to 60,000? You don't sound too certain about this 60,000 figure by the way you said it in your last post. "I believe we can spin...."

Are the guys with 9lb vortech pulleys with 7100 rpm running with upgraded bearings right now? What are the consequences?

Can this destroy the blower? Which in turn can destroy the engine because they share the same oil supply? Maybe they should know this?

I'm just thinking out loud...

Forced

We still publish 50K as the efficient max and 53K as the absolute max but...In the mustang world we have guys spinning these to 60K with no problems. This is not a guarantee, just an observation. Nobody has a heavy duty SC-Trim right now. If you overspun the bearings, they could fail and then the blower could seize. If the belt did not go out, you could take the blower belt off and drive safely home. If some internals got down into your pan, you still have the oil filter to clean the oil before it goes to the top of the motor. There is no danger of engine failure because of the way we supply oil to the supercharger. We have done it this way for 14 years. If there was an issue, do you think we would still be doing it this way? Nope.

S12 driver

It seems like the Vortech will be at max speed with 9 psi pulley, is the Procharger the same way? Maxing out at 9 psi? What about the Stillen M90 s/c?

whosdady

iTrader: (6)

The ATI c2 blower goes to 80,000 rpms which is redline and is published in my ATI installation book. There are guys already running 11 psi without any problems (with the ATI kit).

This is why I disagreed with one of the earlier posters of this thread when he said the ATI kit had minmal upgradibility and that the vortech kit had the highest potenial performance. This is untrue becuase the v2 blower isn't able to keep up with the c2 blower ATI produces.

LSs1Power

The way I see the two kits vortech and ATI is like this. Vortech is a good complete kit for a guy/girl that just want to bolt it on a stock engine and keep it at the same boost levels forever because there is no point to over spin the head unit(Over 8psi as proven in this thread). On the other hand, the procharger is more for the hard core guys that wants to upgrade later on and produce more power in the future. Choose one, but I would personally get a SC that has more potential than what I need so in the future I won’t be stuck with head unit limitations.

whosdady

iTrader: (6)

Well said... I agree completely. That was my point from the begining.

importriders

Out the box I would say Vortech is better because it is what most of us will ever need as far as power. Sure the Procharger will give you more power, but the limiting factor is still gonna be the motor. Both kits are pushing the limit of the stock internals as it is. If you want to make big reliable power youre gonna have to build that motor. And if I were going to be spending that much money to build the motor I would have just gone TT. Just my opinion.

CaneZMD

iTrader: (1)

I agree. As far as long term build-ability (not a word), the Greddy wins hands down. But if your looking at out of the box reliable power, I'd go with the Vortech. (I did go with the Vortech!) For me, for now, a blower that supports 400 rwhp (as noted with cams and 9lb pulley in another thread) is enough.

Houston G35

My statement about upgradeability was in reference to stock parts. Of course anyone could add components to a system to make it more powerful, more efficient, and more long lasting. I was focusing on the fuel management capabilities of the two systems. The Vortech has and excellent solution which has a great deal of programmability. To the best of my understanding, the ATI is somewhat basic (I understand that other things can be added to change this, but then we are not talking APPLES to APPLES are we?

Forced

I disagree, we are talking about upgradeability. I have already stated that we can upgrade the supercharger. I would like to see one of you spin the ATI to 80,000 just for kicks.

PoWeRtRiP

so its the bearings that are the limiting factor to the amount of rpms right? can you sell upgraded bearings that we can install at home or mail a blower back to you to be upgrader for relatively cheap. or would i need an entire new blower?

Forced

You would have to send in the unit so we can do it. We want to make sure it is done correct.

PoWeRtRiP

is it an expensive process or relatively cheap (i.e. <500)

and how much can i upgrade the bearings obviously there is a limit to the efficiency of the blower of course.

Forced

I think it would be around $300, because we would have to change the seals in it as well, plus labor and possibly new o-rings, etc.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

If somebody wanted an S-trim s/c for their Z would you guys sell it to them? Would it bolt-on, would it work? Besides of course the additional tuning involved....what is the max rpm for the S-trim?

Forced

I am working on "tuner" and "base" kits for the Z/G. The tuner kit will not have fuel or engine management and the base kit will not have the supercharger, fuel or engine management. The max rpm of the S-Trim is 50,000. However, as stated earlier, the S-trim will flow more air at the same RPMs of the SC-Trim. So if you were to just swap blowers with all the same pulleys, you could increase your boost, however you may be in "surge". Like I stated before, we matched the SC-Trim to the Z. We will sell you just about anything.