alpine

I didn't mention engine stress due to RPM, you're right higher rpms in lower gears and all that.

Heat Soak doesn't have a direct relation ship to engine speed, and I didn't suggest that. What I was wondering about is that heat soak is occuring during this speed build up, the efficiency of a turbo, is discreasing as heat soak sets in.

The problem with heat soak, is that you start to incur a greater chance for detonation, and therefore greater risk to the engine.

Also air flow is an interesting thing, has Turbonetics actually done airflow tests for our car and insured any particular amount of airflow through the IC ?

Going faster does not ncessarily mean you are going to get more air flow, so I know that's not the right answer.

These are just some concepts that I am aware of, just wanted to know if this is a factor at all because it is something that should be considered.

Not taking REV past 6700 is a good idea, glad to see that they didn't recomend that. I figured as much, as I already mentioned, that the performance gains couldn't have been signficant.

Governor removal, as far as a desire, sure I'm all for it, I didn't say it wasn't something to do, Just wanted to point out that taking these engines, over those speeds should also be considered.

I don't know if engine stress comes down to a simple as 4 or 5th gear vs 6th. Although common sense would suggest that.

of course you'd need to bring tires into play at that point to, but I'm sure we'll just leave that to the responsibility of the owner/driver.

Keep Cool Buddy....

JimRHIT

iTrader: (6)

Alpine,
If you are concerned about heat soak on this car (turbonetics setup).... are you not concerned about it on your own aps setup as well?

yes, the ICs are different in design, but they recieve air in the same way.

I just don't really see why you are bringing this up?

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

I understand your point of heat soak setting in while getting the car to these speeds but remember that as the speed increases so should the air flow across the intercooler in radiator. In essence it should balance out to provide appropiate cooling force in relation to the spped and power needed to getting there. As far as engine stress I gues my point was not necessarily the stress caused but what gear but rather what engine speed. My point was that the stress presented to the motor at 4k rpms in 5th gear is not going to be significantly different then the stress presented in 6 th at 4k rpms. So in essence as speed increases you should not see any significant change in the amount of stress the motor sees. Also a properly set it up intercooler and turbo system should not incur enough heat soak to become on issue at speeds. On a dyno i could certainly see this being a problem or even after 6-7 passes on a 1/4 mile drag strip but on a high speed run I don't think the issue is going to present itself for the reasons I mentioned above. Although lets keep in mind the heat soak is going to affect any system regardless of design. Some designs would be less prone to it while other more so but the effect is going to be shared application wide. I am uncertain as to any specific tests that Turbonetics performed to measure precise volumes of air flow across the intercooler but suffice to say that the intercooler used in this kit was chosen with great care to ensure proper cooling of not only the charge air but also the cooling radiator. As I said before these guys are in no way new to this game and have taken all this into consideration. Most likely on a level neither of us could even approach understanding. I think in the coming months there will be plenty of data available in real world application of this kit to answer any of the questions you posed.

thrifiddytt

Just got off the phone with T-netics, but don't know if I spoke with the proper individual or not. But he said that there wouldn't be an option to upgrade the turbo/kit. He said a bigger turbo wouldn't fit... I'm not even sure if the part # I got from him was right or not 15134?(this guy sounded pretty sick...maybe the flu or somethin). Someone else know anything?

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Agreed, furthermore I would be more concerned with heat soak in a TT kit as opposed to this for one major reason. The size of the intercooler. It woluld seem only rational that a larger intercooler is going to absorb and or block more air from the radiator then the one chosen for the Turbonetics kit. As a result the charge air may in fact be lower temp (though I doubt it) but the motor will be hotter and thus you are in some negating the effects of having cooler air. In the end it is a balancing act of all things. Both kits have their own approach and I think its safe to say that both do a great job of handling this. And of course as jimrhit said heatsoak is a problem that affects ANY car and kit and is in no way more of a problem just for this kit.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

I know Brad and Jahme (the designer of the kit) both told me that they could most certainly go with a different compressor wheel for more power and if need be a bigger compressor housing. I'm not sure if the sales team has all the details on that. I will ask Brad to get some more details for you when i talk to him again.

Edit: This would most certainly be something custom tailored to your needs. The standard kit will not include a bigger turbo option (no kit does) but Brad and Turbonetics is all about tailoring each kit to the customer. Perfect example is that they do not pre-build and stock turbos for ANY application. When I took a tour of their facility Iwas waiting to see a room full of turbos and was surprised when Brad mentioned that they dont do this. There is no such thing as grab this turbo and try it. No off the shelf thing I should say. The compressor wheel chosen for this kit was not even an existing wheel in their inventory. They made changes to one they had but its different then a standard 60-1. Tailored to fit our motor. This is basic Turbonetics policy. As such I would assume that if you wanted your kit to include a larger turbo or different compressor wheel Brad would take your requirements and find/make a compressor wheel and possible housing to suit your needs. As I said I will get exact details from Brad on this when I talk to him...

Brandon@Forged

Also, ask him what the price difference will be for a bigger size?

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

I will....

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Hey guys just got a voicemail from Brad...cars running great... They're gonna keep it a couple more days to get some more miles on it. Brad put about 50 on yesterday with no issues. Happy to report the Brad said this thing is fast as f@ck. I think his words were "You're going to **** your pants when you drive this". Coming from someone with his background I'm going to go ahead and assume that this means the car is fast. So far so good. Looking to set something up to go get the car sometime next week. Which is just fine with me. I'm pretty happy that Turbonetics is being extra cautious to make sure that what I get back is nothing short of perfect. Can't argue with that....

thrifiddytt

Thanks for all the trouble Mia!!

Enron Exec

Did Brad ever give us a definitive answer on what he thinks will happen with the stock exhaust headers over the many periods of heating and cooling under high pressure?

I was an opponent to a single turbo application in the FM plateform but now i think the few compromises are acceptable with the exception of one, the use of the stock headers. I would really like to see what Brad says.

For what you get with this kit, the price is very attractive. I have 2 friend that are interested in the Turbonetics kit and i just wanted to make sure of a few things before i give them my reccomendations.

projectsherv

MIA nobody was attacking you I just had a few questions because I am about to put in an order for the same kit next week.

LuksEaZy

I read through most of the 47 pages on this topic....catching bits and pieces here and there....

I was wondering (maybe i missed it reading) you can or cannot replace you stock exhaust manifolds with aftermarket headers.

Also if i was to go with Tomei 264 cams would this really improve my power...if so will the ECU upgrade that comes with the kit be able to be tuned with the cams...if not what other computer/fuel managment could i run....I read something in early post about the HKS system and maybe the Apexi system and Motec system....that you could put one of these on it instead of the TS reflash....

correct me if i am being stupid....I am strugling from a hang over this morning...so i can't really think straight...

alpine

This wasn't a product Vs product statement, the question was about taking stock engines, raising limits.

Yes Heat Soak is a problem with any setup.

Perhaps you're an expert, I'm not.. If people are going to spend more time & text, asking why is someone going to bring up a question, then what's the point of us being here.

If you pay attention, I didn't say anthing negative about the turbonetics, I didn't tout my APS kit.

Hell, I drove the turbonetics car myself and gave it a good review, right after I got my APS kit.

This is a discussion right? This is informational right?

I don't see why people need to get up-ity at the the least bit thing. I've read plenty of posts in this thread (and others of coure) with less value to them.

You don't like the question? Don't reply, it's easy.

Perhaps we need "expert only" versions of each thread, and threaten anyone who posts below expectations with being banned from the thread or even better the board.

There is not need for explanation/response to this, I'm sure we are all going to see it the way we each want to.

I'll be sure to run my questions past experts and professionals before taking up your time.

(this is great)

alpine

Thanks for your opinion, the information, and your post(s).

JimRHIT

iTrader: (6)

OK. Well, your comment led me to believe it was a product v. product question. It appeared that you wanted to question why turbonetics would raise a speed limiter to "allow" for more risk in the setup.

Those that take the car to those speeds are crazy, unless at a closed track where that speed is safely do-able ... who knows.

No, you don't say anything negative about it, I have read what you write, and yes, I understand that you drove it and reviewed positively.
BUT, it appeared to me that you were raising "concerns" to indirectly/or directly question this product that could bring forth some doubt to some potential buyers.

I mean honestly, should it really concern anyone that the speed limiter is gone?

I know you are not an expert on the car, you don't even know the rev limit of it....c'mon ... know your car man

Yes, this is an informational thread, we reply here to q+a. That is why I replied, because you were doing what I percieved to be misinformational. You made a mistake (we all do) and questioned the rev limit ... causing doubt in the minds of other potential customers, making this product seem "dangerous" to the engine.

BTW, this is not the "least bit thing", rather me calling you out on bringing up what I though to be misinformation and irrelavent questions that to some could be misinterpreted.

(why is this great?)

thrifiddytt

So, will the Alphawerks or Crawford headers work with this kit? I guess we just go to Technosquare for another reflash if we add on headers, midpipe exhaust, etc.? What was the piping again...321SS? Can't keep reading through 40 pages...

Brandon@Forged

I'd also like to know about the exhaust manifold issue.

The Tomei 264 cams will improve power all the way up to redline, which will help when you are utilitizing the rev and speed limiter revomal. I am 99% sure Technosquare can reflash your ECU with that mod after you get it.

Here's a quote from another forum of a post I made, I laid it out pretty good I thought.
You would be able to use any engine management I just listed (as long as you can do what I mentioned in parenthesis) with the tuner version they are going to offer.

hth (hope this helps/helped)

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Brad has already stated that any aftermarket header that exist to the facotry location should fit fine. No testing has been done with any aftermarket headers as to performance gains but naturally if you are increasing the exhaust gas flow with the new headers you should spool the turbo up a bit faster. Again now testing has been done yet. I have thought about getting a set of headers and testing this but the cost of the headers and time to install are really prohbitive of this. I've recently spent well 5k on my car in parts that arent even installed yet so I need to tame down or I'm going to come home one day and my wife will have my stuff sitting outside. In about 6 months to a year I plan to try to acquire a spare motor to build up and swap in to my car. At that point I may in fact install aftermarket headers to see if there is any change. If you cant wait that long I'll let you know.

Brandon@Forged

So any headers will work (as far as material), assuming they will fit in the factory location?