G37 has Akebono Brakes?
11-09-2007 | 09:26 AM
#2
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yes.
no official word, but the common thought is that brembos were dropped because they were too pricey and the target customers wanted more refinement instead anyway
nissan continues using brembo for the Z and GT-R however.
no official word, but the common thought is that brembos were dropped because they were too pricey and the target customers wanted more refinement instead anyway
nissan continues using brembo for the Z and GT-R however.
11-09-2007 | 09:49 AM
#5
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the 14" brakes on my G37S stop very well...just wondering how the quality is regarding Akebonos since I have never heard of them.
Not sure if I should bother looking into a BB kit down the line...
Not sure if I should bother looking into a BB kit down the line...
11-09-2007 | 10:41 AM
#7
The brakes on the G37 seem to not be as good as the Brembos. On some tests recently, they faded after several hard stops when the Brembos have never done that. I would love to have that rotor size though.
I think even the new Tundra has the same brand brakes on it as the G37 does. They look identical.
I think even the new Tundra has the same brand brakes on it as the G37 does. They look identical.
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11-09-2007 | 11:14 AM
#8
Akebono is largely a company that makes OE brake parts for various manufacturers. I'm pretty sure Infiniti spec'ed out their so called BBK for the G37 and had Akebono make it for them.
11-09-2007 | 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
On some tests recently, they faded after several hard stops
I'm thinking if a set of performance pads and ss brae lines will do it. <---cvt, not a big fan of drilled or slotted rotors for DD
11-09-2007 | 11:50 AM
#10
Pads and lines/fluid will make a huge difference. They did on my 05 G standard brakes before and after I did the setup at MSR.
Get a solid rotor with good cooling fins, like Brembo Blanks. More surface area means better stopping power. The ones that are drilled or slotted do not help anymore over the solid ones and have a greater chance of cracking.
Get a solid rotor with good cooling fins, like Brembo Blanks. More surface area means better stopping power. The ones that are drilled or slotted do not help anymore over the solid ones and have a greater chance of cracking.
11-09-2007 | 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
The ones that are drilled or slotted do not help anymore over the solid ones and have a greater chance of cracking.
11-10-2007 | 06:42 AM
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Ya, I had all three (cross drilled, slotted, and blanks) on my brembo's, and actually the best i've ever had are made by Disc Brakes of Australia.
it's their 5000 series in the front and 4000 series in the rear for our cars.
Two piece slotted rotor with red hats for my car. And then im using Endless Vita Nuova brake pads. My car stops harder than any porsche out there. Brake fade is non-existent. I have yet to encounter any, and until i went back and drove my corvette, had forgotten what brake fade even felt like. The brembo's are awesome.
In terms of cracking rotors, never done it, but, i definitly warped my drilled so the data is accurate. drilled looks awesome but warps like a ****. Blanks do not stop faster then slotted. show me data that proves that and i will believe it, but fundamentally it doesnt make sense. if blanks stop so much faster then why do professionals all swear by slotted? blanks allow a layer of gasses between the pad surface and rotor surface that actually reduces stopping distance. Slotted removes this gas away from the surface of the pad and redresses the pad giving a fresh surface for contact.
it's their 5000 series in the front and 4000 series in the rear for our cars.
Two piece slotted rotor with red hats for my car. And then im using Endless Vita Nuova brake pads. My car stops harder than any porsche out there. Brake fade is non-existent. I have yet to encounter any, and until i went back and drove my corvette, had forgotten what brake fade even felt like. The brembo's are awesome.
In terms of cracking rotors, never done it, but, i definitly warped my drilled so the data is accurate. drilled looks awesome but warps like a ****. Blanks do not stop faster then slotted. show me data that proves that and i will believe it, but fundamentally it doesnt make sense. if blanks stop so much faster then why do professionals all swear by slotted? blanks allow a layer of gasses between the pad surface and rotor surface that actually reduces stopping distance. Slotted removes this gas away from the surface of the pad and redresses the pad giving a fresh surface for contact.
11-10-2007 | 07:29 AM
#13
Blank Brembo Rotors with good cooling fins will stop better after many stops over a slotted or drilled rotor.
I do not know any professionals that swear about slotted rotors. If you have to get something that looks cool then slotted would be the choice, but I would rather have a pair of solid rotors with good cooling fins over a pair of slotted or especially drilled. I have tried many, and the only advantage slotted has is to help the gases escape the pads. Those slots however cause less surface area on the rotor, and in turn causes more heat.
Here is some info from the NASA site:
drilled - only improvement is with lighter weight. Otherwise, they have far less mass and will not tolerate heating up. They are less structurally rigid because of the drilling done, and can crack. Drilling is NOT to affect cooling. Venting affects cooling, not holes in the channels. They will definately run hotter than solid rotors. They are only really used to compete in auto-x, and those racers swiss the hell out of them to achieve the lightest rotor possible to improve their unsprung mass and rotational mass (quicker response). These guys don't reach very high speeds and only use their brakes for short stints, so it is ok for them.
slotted - I believe these were developed to help channel out gasses that escape from some pads. Most pads these days don't expell gasses, so it is not necessary.
solid rotors - buy them.
Drilled and slotted are mostly available for people to add "bling", they have little practical benefit and cost considerably more.
A killer braking setup would include a very thick rotor, cooling shrouds and ducting a la race technology outlets, and a strong race bred caliper (i.e. stoptech, etc). Buy two sets of pads for street and track. You'd be set.
I do not know any professionals that swear about slotted rotors. If you have to get something that looks cool then slotted would be the choice, but I would rather have a pair of solid rotors with good cooling fins over a pair of slotted or especially drilled. I have tried many, and the only advantage slotted has is to help the gases escape the pads. Those slots however cause less surface area on the rotor, and in turn causes more heat.
Here is some info from the NASA site:
drilled - only improvement is with lighter weight. Otherwise, they have far less mass and will not tolerate heating up. They are less structurally rigid because of the drilling done, and can crack. Drilling is NOT to affect cooling. Venting affects cooling, not holes in the channels. They will definately run hotter than solid rotors. They are only really used to compete in auto-x, and those racers swiss the hell out of them to achieve the lightest rotor possible to improve their unsprung mass and rotational mass (quicker response). These guys don't reach very high speeds and only use their brakes for short stints, so it is ok for them.
slotted - I believe these were developed to help channel out gasses that escape from some pads. Most pads these days don't expell gasses, so it is not necessary.
solid rotors - buy them.
Drilled and slotted are mostly available for people to add "bling", they have little practical benefit and cost considerably more.
A killer braking setup would include a very thick rotor, cooling shrouds and ducting a la race technology outlets, and a strong race bred caliper (i.e. stoptech, etc). Buy two sets of pads for street and track. You'd be set.
11-10-2007 | 07:38 AM
#14
Another good article I found.
The reason for the creation of cross drilled rotors initially was to remove the "gasses" from the brake pads. HOWEVER, most of your modern brake pads (Axxis metal, AEM semi-ceramic) do NOT produce gasses when heating. This was on bad brake pads used in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, asbestos was also used, and we dont use that either.
The other reason is so called heat dissapation. I don't have my physics and thermo books with me, but the logic is that the holes in the rotor are suppose to allow the brake pad to cool. So...air gets into the rotor from the inside of the vents. If you have a back rotor which is solid, air gets into these holes how? If your stopped, you are leaving air inside these holes sandwiched between the pads, thus creating air with a rising temperature. Its increasing in pressure from the heat, which I guess you "could" call a gas that would affect braking. So the cross drilled rotors do not remove any gasses formed by brake pads (because there are none created anymore) but could possibly inhibit the creation of "hot spots".
Cross drilled rotors have LESS contact area because of the holes.
But if the rotor is cooler, its better, right? Well no, because these rotors are not cooler. THe heat is generated from the pad/rotor contact. What removes heat the most effectively? When stopped or moving, the pad transfers heat into the rotor because its made of cast iron. the rotor has a lot of surface area and even vanes in it. But the little holes allow air in this surface contact, and you can transfer more heat into a solid big *** chunk of cast iron more than you can into the air. Don't believe me? Touch some steam at 150 degrees, then touch a piece of hot metal which is at 150 degrees. Which burns your hand? the metal. So let the heat transfer into the metal, because since it has so much more surface area, dissapates better.
Safety!!
Cross drilled rotors can crack! I have seen them!!
http://www.livermoreperformance.com/...Slot/crack.jpg
Even racing teams will reccomend AGAINST cross drilled rotors:
http://www.livermoreperformance.com/...ke_rotors.html
Companies that sell cross drilled rotors that are redrilled may not be structurally sound. I have actually seen pictures of rear Integra rotors that have had hairline cracks turn into the rotor actually breaking apart!
Do your homework. Even Porsche and Ferrari will admit that the cross drilled rotors they use are for looks. So if you are one of those kids who thinks the little holes look cool, get a name brand drilled rotor like Ferrari does. The REASON Ferrari's 'holed' rotors are alright to use is because they are CAST with the holes in them, so they are not actually drilled into cast iron rotors. Cheap drilled rotors are not safe, and even the good ones are not necessary. Why do Ferrari do it? People THINK they want it, and it sells. If you don't believe me, go into the business world. You will learn that pretty soon, you can sell utter **** if people THINK its better.
Information I gathered from http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/brakesrotor.html
says:
"KVR Crossdrilled Rotors
Why should you upgrade to cross drilled rotors?
Simply stated, the function of any vehicles brake system is to stop the vehicle. This is accomplished by absorbing the kinetic energy stored in the moving vehicle, and converting it into heat. The friction caused by the brake pad rubbing on the rotor is the source of this heat. The more quickly and efficiently that heat can be absorbed and dissipated, the more quickly and efficiently the car will stop.
There are several contributing factors to this heat reduction. One of the most common sources of heat is from the gases produced by the bonding agents of the brake pad burning off. Under severe braking, this can actually produce a boundary layer of gas that pushes the pad away from the rotor, which can lead to excessive brake fade. The cross-drilled holes or slots in a rotor provide an escape path for these gasses (de-gassing or out-gassing are common terms), and allow the pad to stay in contact with the rotor. As well as de-gassing, cross drilling or slotting will provide better wet weather braking as water is swept through the holes, or down the slots.
A vented rotor can be viewed as an air fan. When in motion, the vents draw air from the center of the rotor outward. This air flow, over an increased internal surface area, effectively dissipates rotor heat. Cross drilling adds to this air flow, as well as providing additional rotor surface cooling. "
This company is just telling you that the rotors may be cooler, however they fail to mention that the holes really do create a more than substantial decrease in surface area, thus less braking, thus less heat created, thus the less heat CREATED will leave the rotors cooler, the holes barely do anything! Its the less braking lowering the temperature!
Slotted rotors-
Find me a company that uses stock slotted rotors. They remove brake dust, but if you study braking systems, you find that with modern cars, flat blank rotors and semi-ceramic pads, the brake dust causing the rotor to slip on it is almost non-existent. But the brake dust doesnt need all those lines. Notice how most front brake pads (and most back) have that line down the middle to give essentially two bite points. If OEM or racing companies found it to be a benefit, they would do it.
PROOF OF IT ALL:
Find me an F1 car as of now that uses cross drilled or slotted rotors.
They all use full ceramic rotors and ceramic pads. Are they drilled or slotted? No.
If they helped the fastest cars in the world, wouldn't they use them? Its basic calculations that show the lack in surface area does not make up for the possible loss in temperarure. They use brake cooling air ducts insted.
IN CONCLUSION:
Don't buy slotted or cross drilled rotors, blank are better, and stop better. Physics people, get me my formulas and help me out here.
If you must get rotors with designs on them, get the slotted ones by a good company, and DON'T get blank rotors redrilled with little holes all over them. IF you absolutly must have the rotors with holes cause you like em, get them from a company that casts the rotors like that. I have seen rotors break and this is for your safety!
The reason for the creation of cross drilled rotors initially was to remove the "gasses" from the brake pads. HOWEVER, most of your modern brake pads (Axxis metal, AEM semi-ceramic) do NOT produce gasses when heating. This was on bad brake pads used in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, asbestos was also used, and we dont use that either.
The other reason is so called heat dissapation. I don't have my physics and thermo books with me, but the logic is that the holes in the rotor are suppose to allow the brake pad to cool. So...air gets into the rotor from the inside of the vents. If you have a back rotor which is solid, air gets into these holes how? If your stopped, you are leaving air inside these holes sandwiched between the pads, thus creating air with a rising temperature. Its increasing in pressure from the heat, which I guess you "could" call a gas that would affect braking. So the cross drilled rotors do not remove any gasses formed by brake pads (because there are none created anymore) but could possibly inhibit the creation of "hot spots".
Cross drilled rotors have LESS contact area because of the holes.
But if the rotor is cooler, its better, right? Well no, because these rotors are not cooler. THe heat is generated from the pad/rotor contact. What removes heat the most effectively? When stopped or moving, the pad transfers heat into the rotor because its made of cast iron. the rotor has a lot of surface area and even vanes in it. But the little holes allow air in this surface contact, and you can transfer more heat into a solid big *** chunk of cast iron more than you can into the air. Don't believe me? Touch some steam at 150 degrees, then touch a piece of hot metal which is at 150 degrees. Which burns your hand? the metal. So let the heat transfer into the metal, because since it has so much more surface area, dissapates better.
Safety!!
Cross drilled rotors can crack! I have seen them!!
http://www.livermoreperformance.com/...Slot/crack.jpg
Even racing teams will reccomend AGAINST cross drilled rotors:
http://www.livermoreperformance.com/...ke_rotors.html
Companies that sell cross drilled rotors that are redrilled may not be structurally sound. I have actually seen pictures of rear Integra rotors that have had hairline cracks turn into the rotor actually breaking apart!
Do your homework. Even Porsche and Ferrari will admit that the cross drilled rotors they use are for looks. So if you are one of those kids who thinks the little holes look cool, get a name brand drilled rotor like Ferrari does. The REASON Ferrari's 'holed' rotors are alright to use is because they are CAST with the holes in them, so they are not actually drilled into cast iron rotors. Cheap drilled rotors are not safe, and even the good ones are not necessary. Why do Ferrari do it? People THINK they want it, and it sells. If you don't believe me, go into the business world. You will learn that pretty soon, you can sell utter **** if people THINK its better.
Information I gathered from http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/brakesrotor.html
says:
"KVR Crossdrilled Rotors
Why should you upgrade to cross drilled rotors?
Simply stated, the function of any vehicles brake system is to stop the vehicle. This is accomplished by absorbing the kinetic energy stored in the moving vehicle, and converting it into heat. The friction caused by the brake pad rubbing on the rotor is the source of this heat. The more quickly and efficiently that heat can be absorbed and dissipated, the more quickly and efficiently the car will stop.
There are several contributing factors to this heat reduction. One of the most common sources of heat is from the gases produced by the bonding agents of the brake pad burning off. Under severe braking, this can actually produce a boundary layer of gas that pushes the pad away from the rotor, which can lead to excessive brake fade. The cross-drilled holes or slots in a rotor provide an escape path for these gasses (de-gassing or out-gassing are common terms), and allow the pad to stay in contact with the rotor. As well as de-gassing, cross drilling or slotting will provide better wet weather braking as water is swept through the holes, or down the slots.
A vented rotor can be viewed as an air fan. When in motion, the vents draw air from the center of the rotor outward. This air flow, over an increased internal surface area, effectively dissipates rotor heat. Cross drilling adds to this air flow, as well as providing additional rotor surface cooling. "
This company is just telling you that the rotors may be cooler, however they fail to mention that the holes really do create a more than substantial decrease in surface area, thus less braking, thus less heat created, thus the less heat CREATED will leave the rotors cooler, the holes barely do anything! Its the less braking lowering the temperature!
Slotted rotors-
Find me a company that uses stock slotted rotors. They remove brake dust, but if you study braking systems, you find that with modern cars, flat blank rotors and semi-ceramic pads, the brake dust causing the rotor to slip on it is almost non-existent. But the brake dust doesnt need all those lines. Notice how most front brake pads (and most back) have that line down the middle to give essentially two bite points. If OEM or racing companies found it to be a benefit, they would do it.
PROOF OF IT ALL:
Find me an F1 car as of now that uses cross drilled or slotted rotors.
They all use full ceramic rotors and ceramic pads. Are they drilled or slotted? No.
If they helped the fastest cars in the world, wouldn't they use them? Its basic calculations that show the lack in surface area does not make up for the possible loss in temperarure. They use brake cooling air ducts insted.
IN CONCLUSION:
Don't buy slotted or cross drilled rotors, blank are better, and stop better. Physics people, get me my formulas and help me out here.
If you must get rotors with designs on them, get the slotted ones by a good company, and DON'T get blank rotors redrilled with little holes all over them. IF you absolutly must have the rotors with holes cause you like em, get them from a company that casts the rotors like that. I have seen rotors break and this is for your safety!
11-10-2007 | 11:23 AM
#15
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+1 on solo-350z...many of the track guy swear by non-drilled/slotted rotors. the slotted feel like they bite better (and they do vent out more gases) but in reality they eat though pads faster and the braling surface area is not the same.
that is why brake pads and lines for me...14" rotors should be sufficient for DD.
that is why brake pads and lines for me...14" rotors should be sufficient for DD.
11-10-2007 | 12:47 PM
#16
Originally Posted by DJMatrix1067
Ya, I had all three (cross drilled, slotted, and blanks) on my brembo's, and actually the best i've ever had are made by Disc Brakes of Australia.
it's their 5000 series in the front and 4000 series in the rear for our cars.
Two piece slotted rotor with red hats for my car. And then im using Endless Vita Nuova brake pads. My car stops harder than any porsche out there. Brake fade is non-existent. I have yet to encounter any, and until i went back and drove my corvette, had forgotten what brake fade even felt like. The brembo's are awesome.
In terms of cracking rotors, never done it, but, i definitly warped my drilled so the data is accurate. drilled looks awesome but warps like a ****. Blanks do not stop faster then slotted. show me data that proves that and i will believe it, but fundamentally it doesnt make sense. if blanks stop so much faster then why do professionals all swear by slotted? blanks allow a layer of gasses between the pad surface and rotor surface that actually reduces stopping distance. Slotted removes this gas away from the surface of the pad and redresses the pad giving a fresh surface for contact.
it's their 5000 series in the front and 4000 series in the rear for our cars.
Two piece slotted rotor with red hats for my car. And then im using Endless Vita Nuova brake pads. My car stops harder than any porsche out there. Brake fade is non-existent. I have yet to encounter any, and until i went back and drove my corvette, had forgotten what brake fade even felt like. The brembo's are awesome.
In terms of cracking rotors, never done it, but, i definitly warped my drilled so the data is accurate. drilled looks awesome but warps like a ****. Blanks do not stop faster then slotted. show me data that proves that and i will believe it, but fundamentally it doesnt make sense. if blanks stop so much faster then why do professionals all swear by slotted? blanks allow a layer of gasses between the pad surface and rotor surface that actually reduces stopping distance. Slotted removes this gas away from the surface of the pad and redresses the pad giving a fresh surface for contact.
11-11-2007 | 08:48 PM
#17
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From: Sun Diego, CA
Originally Posted by cvt
Never heard of them...why dump the Brembos in the first place?...
11-26-2007 | 04:44 AM
#20
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From: Kentucky
Hey guys... I work for Akebono North America. It's funny to see a thread with that name as there are not that many people that have heard of us. We are a much bigger company in Japan. Here in NA, we actually produce OE pads for alot of production vehicles, including some GM and Ford vehicles. Anyway, I've heard that one of our Japan plants is producing the caliper/pad's for the G37. I've seen some of the samples and I'll see if I can get some pictures of the Caliper and Pads and post them up.